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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Record
    #3200508 - 09/30/04 05:23 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yahoo.com news

Bush needed to take a physical exam by the end of July 1972 to keep flying. But he skipped the physical and his commanders grounded him in August 1972. Bush never flew for the military again.

The White House said Bush skipped the exam because he expected a transfer to an Alabama unit which did not have the F-102A jets Bush was trained to fly. Bush has said he went to Alabama to work on the unsuccessful U.S. Senate campaign of Winton Blount, a family friend.

"The president was transferring to Alabama to perform equivalent duty in a non-flying capacity, making a flight physical unnecessary," the White House said.

The White House did not answer whether Bush disobeyed a direct order to take the exam. Bush won final approval to train for three months with an Alabama unit a month after he had already been suspended as a pilot.


In the military, a subordinate cannot determine which orders he will or will not follow without repercussions (or major connections). It was NOT up to Bush to decide to skip the exam.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Record [Re: Swami]
    #3200537 - 09/30/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is it your position that he should have been court martialed for not taking a flight physical when he wasn't going to be flying? Is it inconceivable to you that the order may have been rescinded, in light of the fact that he was not going to be flying? Do you have any evidence that he actually was ordered to take a flight physical even though he was not going to be flying and don't you think that it was a waste of everyone's time if that was the case? Do you have any idea how stupid this carping sounds?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Record [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3200562 - 09/30/04 05:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is it inconceivable to you that the order may have been rescinded, in light of the fact that he was not going to be flying?

If the order was rescinded then he would not have been suspended and the White House would clearly state this. Transfer to a ground-based unit will NOT get one suspended.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Record [Re: Swami]
    #3200572 - 09/30/04 05:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Where does it say he was suspended?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Record [Re: z@z.com]
    #3200583 - 09/30/04 05:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Grounded = suspended from flying.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Record [Re: Swami]
    #3208411 - 10/02/04 11:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

In the military, a subordinate cannot determine which orders he will or will not follow without repercussions (or major connections).

Exactly.  That only applies if your family isn't well-connected.  :thumbdown:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,824
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 1 day, 16 hours
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Record [Re: Swami]
    #3208914 - 10/03/04 03:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Did it occur to you that

1. Bush was getting out of the Guard already and
2. that not only were the F-102's not going to be available in Alabama but that they were being fazed out entirely and
3. that there was insuffcient time to train him on a new plane before his departure from the service and
4. since Vietnam was winding down there was no longer a need for pilots and infact they had a surplus - anyone willing to voluntarily leave was doing the Guard a favor????


The White House did not answer whether Bush disobeyed a direct order to take the exam.

Not likely. Testing schedules are simply a regimen to follow. Very few of the requirements for performing your job duties were direct orders. Had he, then

Bush won final approval to train for three months with an Alabama unit a month after he had already been suspended as a pilot.

This wouldn't be very likely if he had recently failed to complete a direct order.

I'm curious, have you ever accepted a favor, with nothing in return? Every allowed a friend or family member to help you get a job or done it for someone else?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Offlinehound
newbie
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 154
Loc: NAPTOWN
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Rec [Re: Swami]
    #3211761 - 10/04/04 12:26 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Swami,

I don't think anybody realy cares what Bush, or anybody else did in relation to Viet Nam, some 30-35 years ago.


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OfflineAhHaHaHa
there issomething on myshoulder
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 199
Loc: upon the east
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Rec [Re: hound]
    #3211915 - 10/04/04 12:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Exactly! Who cares. Bush didnt take a physical. Kerry pansied his way through Vietnam. Clinton smoked weed. Who cares!


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So Im packing my bags for the mysty mountains where the spirits go.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 9 years, 11 hours
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Rec [Re: AhHaHaHa]
    #3211980 - 10/04/04 01:18 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AhHaHaHa said:
Who cares!




My sentiments exactly.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Rec [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3212764 - 10/04/04 07:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Who cares.

I think the issue here is not the minutia of whether or not Bush reported for his check-up. The issue is the ethical standard to which we should hold people in positions of trust.

If I had done the same thing, the consequences for me would have been serious. Why are the consequences for him insignificant? Why was he permitted to get away with it? Yes, it's a technicality, so what? It's still not fair. He's the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth. He should be beyond reproach. So should Kerry and Clinton and all the rest.

If they don't want to be held to, at least the same, but ideally higher ethical standards than the rest of us, then they should find another career. Same goes for cops and for the same reason, I think.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinehound
newbie
Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 154
Loc: NAPTOWN
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: More White House Dodging on Bush' Military Rec [Re: Diploid]
    #3212836 - 10/04/04 08:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think the reason why most people have given Clinton, Bush and others a pass on Viet Nam is because most people understand how truly screwed up that whole conflict was.

They look at what alot of these people did to avoid it and they say to themselves, " Hell, I would have done the same thing." Not that it makes it right, but people are going to give you a pass if you tried to avoid that war.


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