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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29695451 -

:takingnotes: ahhhhh ok

Unheated dehydration = room temp dehydration

Thank Rev! :thumbup:


--------------------
"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"
DUBJUG : H.D. : PLASTIC-MYC : TGE : JOIN CAKE WARS : MODERN FRUITING : MCWA : QDMT : ♾️ : MY FAV TEKS πŸ“–

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29703766 -

Uzi said:
Quote:
I will be testing it again in the next couple of days which will be over 350 days since dehydration. So far, I would call it very stable.


Ooh please do come back with an update. If dehydrated tea is stable up to a year like that, looks like youve found one of the best forms of storage for the goodies.

I was pretty happy with the volume reduction, and it seems like a good method to not have a bunch of jars with fruits laying around if you like to grow frequently for fun lol.


ReverendMyc said:
ReverendMyc said:
ReverendMyc said:
stasis said:
Hi Rev,

Do you have any initial ideas/anecdotal thoughts on potency/time for the dehydrated tea? I only recently made some out of dried suptropicalis and have found it to be a fantastic method thats very versatile. I was hoping to use it as the main storage method moving forward if it lasts the test of time.


ReverendMyc said:
I have tests planned. I was hoping that I had a sample that I had accurately measured and logged to do a retest to check for potency. Unfortunately, I have either used what I had in gummies or just combined various batches into a collection jar, so I don't have a good reference base value to retest.

I am going to prepare a batch of the dehydrated tea this week specifically to test. I will test its potency right after prep and then again a few times over the coming months to see how quickly it drops or if it stay roughly the same over time. So I will share some answers to that, but it will take some time for results to come in.


Crystalized Tea over time results.

After 55 days, dehydrated tea shows no loss in potency at all. The dried tea was made specifically for this test and stored in a quart canning jar with regular two piece lid. No vacuum was applied as I usually do. Not even kept in the dark. Just a regular jar with dried tea on a shelf in my lab.



I will continue to test this at various intervals. Most likely on the same days as the 5 year myceliated grain tests. 55 days and one test is not conclusive or anything, but it is a pretty encouraging place to start.


Day 107 and dehydrated tea in sealed jar still holding the same potency. Just over 2% with no vacuum or silica nor O2 absorbers. Just brown crystals in a clear jar on a shelf.

I will skip the next one and run another at around 200 days from dehydration and jarring.


Day 203 since first test. Potency still just over 2% actives. Thinking that it is pretty safe to say that the crystals hold their potency if kept dry. I will keep testing at long intervals when I test other things. See you at day 300~ish.


Tested again at day 356 and the results are just below 2%. The results show a possible loss of 3.35% potency after 1 year of storage. That is still within the 5% tolerance of the testing equipment, so may not be significant.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29703783 -

Amazing Rev. Thank you for your dedication


--------------------
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 5
    #29703791 -

Double post because I also tested my latest method of tea making and it showed some significant improvements.

  • This time I did a vacuum extraction of 509 grams of fresh subtropicalis.
  • I used three decoctions using 500 ml of preboiled and cooled filtered water for each decoction.
  • I added approximately 1 gram of ascorbic acid powder to each 500ml decoction.
  • I drew a vacuum on 2000 ml canning jars using an electric vacuum pump.
  • This time I used 5-Pack 5 Gallon Reusable Mesh Filter Bags 5 Color Nylon Filter Bags 25 to 220 Micron Suitable for Hydroponics Gardening and Industrial Applications in succession to filter out the solids. This was far easier and more effective than all prior methods I have tried. Next time I may run the final tea from the 25 micron bag through a Aeropress to see if I can reduce the solids any further.
  • Then I dried the tea to crystals at 71c for 48 hours in small silicone cups.
  • The final weight of the dried tea was 20 grams which is a 96% reduction from fresh to dried tea.
  • Multiple samples of the dried tea were tested using the qtest and colorimeter with results around 45mg/g of dried tea.


This has been the best reduction and potency result so far. The crystals are a bit more powdery and a more redish brown than other runs. I am looking forward to seeing how much I can stuff into a 00 capsule and how gummies turn out.


Looks a bit more like I picture melange/spice.

Edited by ReverendMyc (10/20/26 03:25 PM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29704259 -

That's awesome Rev! Is your vacuum pump one for jars, or something stronger?


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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: bluescreen]
    #29704646 -

ReverendMyc said:
Quote:
Do you guys think that a manual vacuum pump as the one one uses to suck air from a opened wine bottle with the dedicated cork works as well as that electric device you use (reference appreciated aswell) ?

This is the kind of manual vacuum pump im talking about : https://cdn.etrias.nl/media/cache/product_lg/8/7/8714793098121.jpg
Apparently it achieves -5 psi or 500 Torr.


Before I got the electric vacuum thingy I was using one like this.


With this attacment for jars.


That worked fine and drew a vacuum just as well if you don't mind a little mini-workout for each use. :muscles: So, surely the wine thing should be similar if you can find the proper attachment... or you use wine bottles instead of canning jars. That is probably what you meant and I just realized it.

Here is an amazon link to the one I have now, though. They are relatively inexpensive if you are in the market. Mine has lasted for years of regular use.

Quote:
Also, I just read that soaking the biomass in water 30min before applying the vacuum could help the extraction...what do you think ? Potential psilocybin degradation ?


With fresh materials, I don't think that a soak will matter because the mush is already 90%+ water, but that is just a guess. If you grind up your fresh I would worry about oxidation of psilocin but with whole mushrooms or sclerotia I doubt soaking would do any help or harm as long as the cell walls remain in tact.

For dried mush materials, you are mostly working with psilocybin and not starting with much psilocin so a short soak is not likely to do much harm but I wouldn't go for a long soak. In my experience with gummy recipes, letting dried mush tea sit over night in a refrigerator caused a significant loss in potency.

Quote:
Such an easy way to make an extract in the wild...


I may be easy, but I am also cheap. Or something like that.

I am glad to hear if what I share is helpful. I appreciate you taking the time. Stick around, this place is full of good information and helpful souls in an old wild west sort of way.



--------------------
𝕴𝖋 𝕴 π–π–†π–›π–Š π–˜π–Šπ–Šπ–“ π–‹π–šπ–—π–™π–π–Šπ–— π–Žπ–™ π–Žπ–˜ π–‡π–ž π–˜π–™π–†π–“π–‰π–Žπ–“π–Œ π–šπ–•π–”π–“ π–™π–π–Š π–˜π–π–”π–šπ–‘π–‰π–Šπ–—π–˜ 𝖔𝖋 π•²π–Žπ–†π–“π–™π–˜

:drugnerd: The TekDek v.2    Autist Tally :laugh:

:mushroom2:How to make a TEK:mushroom2:

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Tri]
    #29704857 -

Well putting a material like dryed tea extract in a fridge which pulls moisture onto everything will cause obvious degradation in my eyes. I've heard the tea extracts for gummies is fairly shelf stable at room temps for a year+ :amanita2:


--------------------





An enigma some caerulescens n a mono 😎

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29706207 -

Quote:
  • This time I did a vacuum extraction of 509 grams of fresh subtropicalis.
  • I used three decoctions using 500 ml of preboiled and cooled filtered water for each decoction.
  • I added approximately 1 gram of ascorbic acid powder to each 500ml decoction.
  • I drew a vacuum on 2000 ml canning jars using an electric vacuum pump.
  • This time I used 5-Pack 5 Gallon Reusable Mesh Filter Bags 5 Color Nylon Filter Bags 25 to 220 Micron Suitable for Hydroponics Gardening and Industrial Applications in succession to filter out the solids. This was far easier and more effective than all prior methods I have tried. Next time I may run the final tea from the 25 micron bag through a Aeropress to see if I can reduce the solids any further.
  • Then I dried the tea to crystals at 71c for 48 hours in small silicone cups.
  • The final weight of the dried tea was 20 grams which is a 96% reduction from fresh to dried tea.
  • Multiple samples of the dried tea were tested using the qtest and colorimeter with results around 45mg/g of dried tea.




Do you think you could go into this new method in a bit more detail when you get the time, Rev? It seems pretty straightforward but theres a few things im not understanding fully plus a few changes in the results from your last method id love to know more about or just pitch a thought about.

A little more clarification would be great for:

1. Boil then cool water to room temp (why not just skip the boil if its gonna cool?) If you did three separate decoctions could you also just do one single decoction with the same amount of water but combined?

2. Put it in a jar along with the fruits, ascorbic acid, and vacuum it with that electric jar vac (for how long under vacuum? Do you aggitate or use a stir bar or just let it sit) Does the pH really seem to make much a difference? could you use another acid in place of ascorbic like food grade malic or citric?

The results seem great though, great work man.

Another thing i wanted to mention was the finished products weight compared to the weight of the starting product plus the potency.

In your last method and when we spoke before you said that you would end up with the exact same weight in dried tea as the final product and that the potency didnt change at all from the starting material, just a reduction in volume. Here if you were to have dehydrated the fruits youd get somewhere around 50g of dried from the 509g wet you got so from your previous method one could assume youd end up with 50.9g of dried tea with the same potency as before, but it seems this time you did actually lose the weight (reduced by 60% if going by dry weight conversion) and that the potency was definitely concentrated (aint no way those fruits hittn 45mg/g right?). Does that seem to track with what youre getting? Sorry for the long post, I do my own tests as well I just dont have access to the miraculix tests atm to confirm potency with accuracy.

PS: turns out that batch i mentioned a few weeks ago where i reduced it down with a hard boil for a while in basically entirely inactive so uhh, yeah down boil your tea for an extended period of time lol, can definitely cross that method off the list.


--------------------
Me when i - w -when - wehn i do the - when do the stanky leg

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Uzi] * 4
    #29708740 -

Sorry for the delay. I have been doing some home renovations so I am not online much these days.

Once I am settled on a "best" method I will add a full write up/tek. This thread is more of a log of things I am trying and a place to discuss potential improvements. I keep changing little things and trying new things to see if there is a noteworthy improvement. I kind of feel bad that I wrote up my gummy tek when I originally did because I have made a few major rewrites and a many small changes along the way which I am sure is confusing unless you keep up with the entire thread instead of just the OP.

The boiled and cooled water is intended to reduce the amount of absorbed oxygen in the water. "Heating water lowers the solubility of gases like oxygen and nitrogen, causing them to break out of solution and escape. Boiling water for a sustained period reduces dissolved gas levels."-veoliawatertech So does vacuum degasification, but starting the water with the minimum amount of dissolved gases has shown less oxidation of psilocin to the blue inactive compound. So I heat the water to boiling then let it cool with a canning lid on to reduce reabsorption.

When I tried single decoctions with larger volumes of water, I still found that the left over dregs contained a lot of actives when compared to the dregs after multiple decoctions using the same total volume of water. So I still think that is the better method. If I were mass growing and extracting, it might work out to be more efficient to produce more mush and run fewer decoctions. But that feels a bit like food waste, and at my small scale, I prefer to squeeze more actives from less materials for the time being. You will get more actives from a larger amount of initial liquid, but in my experience, not as much actives as using the same amount of water over two or three decoctions. Of course, my filtering methods have changed over the life of all of this testing, so maybe those results are not 100% relevant now.

I have tried ascorbic acid and citric acid and no acid. No acid works fine. Citric acid seemed to improve the potency of the extract some, but also made the extract more sour and the dried tea more sticky and difficult to work with. The ascorbic acid(powdered vitamin C) resulted in the most potent extract with a more powdery texture than citric acid. But again, my methods have changed between tests, so I cannot fairly attribute all of the improvement in potency to the different acids until I do some side by side testing. I do not have any immediate plans for that test right now. I do not know if pH is the key factor in the improved extraction or if it relates more the the filtration method of even something else. Those are just my observations and results of this last round.

Each round of vacuum was 15 to 20 minutes. I planned each to be 15 minutes but erred on the side of too long if I missed the timer because my hands were full with something else. I did manually agitate a little a couple of times on each decoction. Under vacuum, I hoped that this would not lead to much reabsorption of O2.

The finished product weight reduction and increased potency were the big improvements this time around. Since I changed a few things at once, I cannot make an accurate statement about the cause. Possible factors are: improved filtration, using ascorbic acid for the first time, vacuum extraction vs heat extraction, fresh subtropicalis this time vs dried gt, dried myceliated grains, dried ochras, or dried subtrops on previous extractions, or something else that I am not thinking of. Too many variable changes between testing was not very professional, but I am the eternal noob.

Whatever the case, I agree that this was more in line with what I want from an extraction. Certainly these fruits could not have been that ridiculously potent. They were a combination of three different lines of cloned subtropicalis that have been tested many times at more standard potency for subtrops. I could not get a good pretest potency because I was working with fresh this time and it was effectively a blend of three clones. So I would have needed to take many samples of each grow and dry and combine them for a starting number. But that would have defeated the point of extracting from fresh.

How's that for not succinct?


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: bloodssonnew]
    #29708787 -

bloodssonnew said:
Well putting a material like dryed tea extract in a fridge which pulls moisture onto everything will cause obvious degradation in my eyes. I've heard the tea extracts for gummies is fairly shelf stable at room temps for a year+ :amanita2:


Just for clarity's sake, I never put dried tea crystals into refrigeration. The potency loss I mentioned occurred when placing reduced liquid tea into the fridge over night.

I keep my dried tea crystals in canning jars with two piece metal lids to prevent moisture exposure. I don't refrigerate them and they have tested at full potency after a year of storage.

I have had gummies hold most of their potency for years at shelf temperatures when I did not use added citric acid in the extraction. I have some doubt about how long they retain potency if acid is used in extraction, but do not have sufficient data to confirm or deny... yet. I am excited to test the last batch of crystals in some gummies and capsules. I will have to be sure to set some of these gummies aside for testing after a year or more. I can only test them by bioassay because the qtests did not work for gummies when I tried that. The gummies did not dissolve sufficiently in the timeline required by the tests.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Tri]
    #29708791 -

Tri said:
ReverendMyc said:
Quote:
Do you guys think that a manual vacuum pump as the one one uses to suck air from a opened wine bottle with the dedicated cork works as well as that electric device you use (reference appreciated aswell) ?

This is the kind of manual vacuum pump im talking about : https://cdn.etrias.nl/media/cache/product_lg/8/7/8714793098121.jpg
Apparently it achieves -5 psi or 500 Torr.


Before I got the electric vacuum thingy I was using one like this.


With this attacment for jars.


That worked fine and drew a vacuum just as well if you don't mind a little mini-workout for each use. :muscles: So, surely the wine thing should be similar if you can find the proper attachment... or you use wine bottles instead of canning jars. That is probably what you meant and I just realized it.

Here is an amazon link to the one I have now, though. They are relatively inexpensive if you are in the market. Mine has lasted for years of regular use.
...



:whathesaid:
I used the electric canning jar pump on a 2 liter canning jar with the common wide mouth sized opening.


Jars like these but I found a six pack of them much cheaper at Target or Walmart.

Edit: quote formatting fix

Edited by ReverendMyc (10/26/26 03:58 PM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29708885 -

:camping:


--------------------
Cultivating Panaeolus cyanescens


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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29709261 -

Damn. Degassing the water before extracting, how tf did I not figure that out from your post, even as a home brewer lmao. Thats thinking outside the box, lol. Very hot, very succinct haha.

Haven't used it myself yet, plan to, but I have to imagine the ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) is protecting all the goodies since its naturally a very potent antioxident by its nature, so Id have to assume its critical or at least plays a really important role in getting all the goods to the dehydrated finishline, maybe not helping with the extraction, but rather protecting whats already there from oxidizing, who knows??? I ran this method the other day with plain tap water, malic acid (down to 3pH), no ascorbic, and the solution turned a pretty dark blue before I dehdyrated it which tells me that its probably trash but I still gotta give it a test to be sure.

On the topic of the vacuum, I did a bit of reading on extracting compounds from dried tea leaves with a vacuum and most answers that came up described that the most efficient way to extract as much tea tannins as possible was to cycle the vacuum over and over a few times with a pretty small time actually under the vac.

Reason being, at least in the case of tea leaves, is that creating an initial vacuum forces the air out of the material, and after releasing the seal quickly after a minute or 2, the surrounding liquid is violently forced back in the material by the air slamming back onto the surface of the water, kind of working like a plunger forcing shit back and forth to dislodge it from where it rests lol. Food for thought? I tried it myself on this past attempt and like I said above, the water was a DEEP blue by the time I got it in the dehydrator so I guess extracting worked fine, just didnt hold up well to oxidation. Appreciate the clarification though man, thank you and also great thread, as they say, two heads is better than one.


--------------------
Me when i - w -when - wehn i do the - when do the stanky leg

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Uzi]
    #29709275 -

Uzi said:
On the topic of the vacuum, I did a bit of reading on extracting compounds from dried tea leaves with a vacuum and most answers that came up described that the most efficient way to extract as much tea tannins as possible was to cycle the vacuum over and over a few times with a pretty small time actually under the vac.

Reason being, at least in the case of tea leaves, is that creating an initial vacuum forces the air out of the material, and after releasing the seal quickly after a minute or 2, the surrounding liquid is violently forced back in the material by the air slamming back onto the surface of the water, kind of working like a plunger forcing shit back and forth to dislodge it from where it rests lol. Food for thought? I tried it myself on this past attempt and like I said above, the water was a DEEP blue by the time I got it in the dehydrator so I guess extracting worked fine, just didnt hold up well to oxidation. Appreciate the clarification though man, thank you and also great thread, as they say, two heads is better than one.


Since you're a homebrewer you could make a lid with a pressure release valve and a ballock connection and instead of using vacuum use pressure :rockon:

After boiling water you could add a stir bar, purge the jar with CO2 to get rid of the O2 and run it on the stir plate, instead of introducing O2 you could pull the release valve, wait 2 minutes and repeat by adding more CO2, if that makes sense :strokebeard:


--------------------
β€œAll Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


Edited by Kloakk (10/28/26 06:31 AM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Kloakk] * 3
    #29710026 -

Man, you guys have me jonesing to get into home brewing. You guys have all the cool tools. I get the urge several times a year. Then I remember that I don't actually drink much beer. Turns out that Uncle Sam is not too fond of home brewers making whiskey or I would be all over that. I wouldn't want to do anything illegal, though. <wink, wink>


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29710353 -

ReverendMyc said:
Man, you guys have me jonesing to get into home brewing.


Do what I did, start with mead. If you have mason jars, honey, and water, you already have 90% of what you need. Just get either a refractometer or hydrometer to measure sugar content, grab a few packets of yeast and a few air locks and youre set. Can't say I can solve your whiskey craving but EC-1118 yeast pitched in a bochet must at a high enough gravity will have you stumbling to your bed if fermented dry (16%-18%). Trust me, learned from experience lmao.
No distilling needed.


--------------------
Me when i - w -when - wehn i do the - when do the stanky leg

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per potency testing of dregs, teas, & extracts [Re: Uzi] * 1
    #29710548 -

Homebrewing is the most set and forget tek you could do...

Kombucha/mead/wine/kefir/etc, all they require is sugar and water and time


--------------------
"Why try for high fives,
When my pies have nine lives?"
DUBJUG : H.D. : PLASTIC-MYC : TGE : JOIN CAKE WARS : MODERN FRUITING : MCWA : QDMT : ♾️ : MY FAV TEKS πŸ“–

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