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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: pugster]
    #29679946 -

pugster said:
trump has not and is not strengthening america he has damaged it on the world stage to a point it will take generations to repair (if ever)


Good riddance I say. You make it sound like American hegemony is a natural thing that can be repaired and expanded without getting hands dirty, if a different sociopath is in office.

America never earned it's success, and it's been in decline for decades. Maybe it would have declined a little slower if Trump wasn't desperately pulling levers trying to save it, but the biggest lie is that everything bad America is experiencing is because of Trump, and the right politician in office can fix it. Gas prices, inflation, supercession of our industries and technologies; that's all going to continue to happen as the leverage we held over the world diminishes.

The next president and the one after that will continue to do what we've always done -- look out for big money, wealthy families, at the expense of the rest of Americans and especially the world.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Icon] * 1
    #29679973 -

Trump isn't the root cause of all of our problems but he has made things worse by being incredibly incompetent and unable to work with people more talented and knowledgeable than him.


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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Icon]
    #29679999 -

Quote:
Trump wasn't desperately pulling levers trying to save it


So you think that is why trump basically says I am america?  Give me a break.
He is not trying to save america, he is trying to change it in a bad way and make it something else.  Jan 6 proves he is not interested in america.

Edited by gww (09/27/26 06:39 PM)

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: gww]
    #29680050 -

Right, he's interested in it as a host that he can continue parasitizing. He's just one of a million other people that are in it for themselves and steering the economy to produce as much wealth for them as possible. It's like attacking one big orange distracting head of a hydra, while the other 99 get away with everything. We need to recognize both parties are owned by the elite and treat the whole system as corrupt, not just the one buffoon scapegoat they're trying to hypnotize everyone into thinking is directing the show.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Icon]
    #29680060 -

Yes, we can include the republicans who protect him.  They need to go.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Icon]
    #29680170 -

Icon said:
pugster said:
trump has not and is not strengthening america he has damaged it on the world stage to a point it will take generations to repair (if ever)


Good riddance I say. You make it sound like American hegemony is a natural thing that can be repaired and expanded without getting hands dirty, if a different sociopath is in office.

America never earned it's success, and it's been in decline for decades. Maybe it would have declined a little slower if Trump wasn't desperately pulling levers trying to save it, but the biggest lie is that everything bad America is experiencing is because of Trump, and the right politician in office can fix it. Gas prices, inflation, supercession of our industries and technologies; that's all going to continue to happen as the leverage we held over the world diminishes.

The next president and the one after that will continue to do what we've always done -- look out for big money, wealthy families, at the expense of the rest of Americans and especially the world.


tbh im trying to understand what you are saying here , on one hand you are praising the system as its working at the moment and on the other you are saying it will just continue regardless of trump and at the expanse of american familys and the world.

do you think america will be better off without world commerce and can survive on its own? commerce depends on mutual benefits.

lol trump is trying to save america? , all hes done is enrich himself on a scale never seen before in modern history.

we agree on one thing and that that this will continue in america after hes gone because he's shown just what someone in that position can get away with, ive said it before - trump is a product of america, not the other way round.

the other thing we argree on is the good riddance bit, i think at this point most people in the EU would be happy for the U.S to leave NATO and build a wall around itself to isolate more , that includes dropping the dollar as the worlds reserve.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: pugster]
    #29680420 -

" trump is a product of america, not the other way round."
This is what I'm getting at. He's just a symptom of a broader systemic issue. To think we have the option to choose something better on the blue ticket though is complete nonsense. Blue and red have different domestic policies to persuade their respective demographics. But when it comes to foreign policy, it's continuity of agenda.

" on one hand you are praising the system "
When did I praise the system?

"commerce depends on mutual benefits."
That's why America is destined to continue declining. We ripped off the rest of the world for generations and have spoiled all of the nation's wealth in exchange for enriching corporations. People seem to think we can stop corporations from taking advantage of Americans, while letting them continue taking advantage of the rest of the world. It's not going to work like that. Either we stop the corporations from taking advantage of everyone, and accept the significant decline to true "mutual benefits"; or we continue colonizing the world and squeezing it for its resources in the least mutual way possible. You can't have it both ways.

Blaming the party that holds office for gas prices, while also blaming them for capturing Venezuela and attempting to capture Ukraine, Greenland, Canada, etc. is incongruent. If you actually want a free market system based on mutual benefits, which I do, then stop complaining about $5 gas and hamburgers, because they should probably be $10 hamburgers if we're actually going to be fair about it.

And that's the thing, America can't strongarm the world into accepting this bullshit anymore, so the decline is going to happen one way or another. Whether we throw a fuss or not, prices are going up, power to control price is going down, living standards are never going to return to what they were 40, 20, 10 years ago.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Icon]
    #29680476 -

lol while i mostly agree with what you said above one thing im not doing is complaining about $5 gas prices , i live in the UK and have been paying double compared to what people pay in the U.S for most of my life.
hamburgers you can keep, very rare i eat them :grin:

the decline in the standards of living you mention ( for the average working class) has been in steady freefall for 20yrs across most of the developed world , the average young person these days cant afford to buy housing, with rent so high across the board they are lucky if they can save anything for a house deposit  , nevermind buy food and pay other bills.

Edited by pugster (09/28/26 12:06 PM)

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Icon] * 4
    #29680562 -

America is not an omnipresent H.P. Lovecraft villian. Do you think American corporations are strong arming third world countries to force them to have shitty labour laws, allowing us to have cheaper goods? Or do you think that those countries have shitty labour laws because they have a strong incentive to compete with their neighbours for who gets to build the factory?

Do you think Bangladesh has a huge fast fashion textile industry because Bangladeshi people are just too backwards to negotiate with American corporations, or is it because Bangladeshi elites have rigged the labour laws to attract factories so that they themselves can get rich?


--------------------
"Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance"

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Asante]
    #29680870 -

Asante said:
Icon said:
the entire reason for Trump being interested in Greenland in the first place is for critical minerals essential to national security.



Odd wording, other peoples possessions being essential to you.

That kind of language puts an implicit claim on them.

The US does not own it, tough titty.


The US only needs to take possession of it if and when the US gets desperate enough.
You really think nations operate based on ethics?

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Shroomhead2]
    #29680877 -

Russia didn't but supposedly we are not thier allay due to things like that.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: gww]
    #29680953 -

gww said:
Russia didn't but supposedly we are not thier allay due to things like that.


Nah its cause Stalin pissed off the wrong us president many a moon ago.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: vicepope] * 2
    #29682392 -

You Amerikkunts couldnt even take over Greenland. What a loser Trump is. You won't increase your territory 1 fucking inch.

The same situation in Greenland next year as it was last year, Trump didnt score some great deal, it was no change at all to the existing set up ie  build all the bases you want to we allow US firms to dig, Greenland wanted investment but had no interest in giving sovereignty to do so, You look like clowns on the world stage no one respects you Amerikka

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Mysterio] * 1
    #29682764 -

Greenland never has sovereignty and you know better. They would have broken away from the Danish government if they wouldn't have died without supplies.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: vicepope]
    #29682782 -

Right? Who cares what their sovereignty is on paper. The reality is the aggressor that just threatened to take everything from them is being allowed to expand a military presence there. If they had sovereignty there wouldn’t be discussion of a deal, and they’d give usa the boot. Seems meant to massage greenlanders into accepting their limited power. They get to roleplay sovereign while usa and nato get to work militarizing and investing in projects that advance usa’s goals.


Now they’re nato forever, can only sell their resources to nato investors, and need nato approval on any resource extraction business endeavors. Kinda sounds like NATO owns Greenland to me.

Edited by Icon (09/30/26 10:12 PM)

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Icon] * 1
    #29683008 -

It's effectively a continuation of the status quo, it doesn't allow the US to unilaterally direct economic development, and while it's a good thing that the embargo of Russia and China from sensitive strategic and infrastructure investments in Greenland has been put in writing it isn't like such development was something Greenlanders were clamoring for. That wasn't a concession on their part.

Denmark and by extension Greenland were already members of NATO, with no inclination to leave, the deal also says the US must remain a NATO member as well...and considering Trump's actions and rhetoric concerning NATO you could say he was the one who was played.

It's all theatrics to provide the illusion of governance, they produce reality TV to give the media something to chew on in order to distract everyone from their corruption and dismantling of our democratic state as they push us deeper and deeper into corporatism and kleptocracy.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Holybullshit]
    #29683523 -

https://www.thearcticinstitute.org/tortuous-path-china-win-win-strategy-greenland/
China has invested in Greenland future. Them being kicked out is a sign of weakness on both sides.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: vicepope]
    #29683831 -

They held minority stakes in companies that were investing in development in Greenland...and that was opposed by the people of Greenland from the get go.

And they are still allowed to hold stakes in and directly invest in Greenland, just not for dual use or strategic infrastructure projects.

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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: Holybullshit]
    #29684951 -

Recall when the United States bought Alaska from Russia in 1867 for $7.2 million.

Abe's Secretary of State William Seward engineered the best land purchase ever :thumbup:



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Re: The US owns Greenland as far as I'm concerned. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #29685029 -

Only until the oil runs out.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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