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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
why dont we print our own money?
    #3269276 - 10/23/04 10:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

why should we(america) buy it from someone else?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: BleaK]
    #3269429 - 10/23/04 11:31 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

What do you mean? The Bureau of Engraving and Printing, part of the Treasury Dept., prints the money.

http://www.moneyfactory.com/section.cfm/2


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: phi1618]
    #3269449 - 10/23/04 11:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That's what they want you to believe....


Yeah, Bleak, what are you talking about?


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: BleaK]
    #3269468 - 10/23/04 11:41 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)



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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: BleaK]
    #3269491 - 10/23/04 11:47 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
why should we(america) buy it from someone else?



STRONGLY reccomend you all watch this:

Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve
Steeped in American history and Austrian economics, and featuring Ron Paul, Joseph Salerno, Hans Hoppe, and Lew Rockwell, this extraordinary film is the clearest, most compelling explanation ever offered of the Fed, and why curbing it must be our first priority.

Next:

The Liberty Dollar
Most Americans don?t realize the depth of America?s current monetary crisis, and those who do don?t stop using money in protest. Most people just shrug their shoulders instead. As the old saying goes, "you can?t fight city hall."

So for years, Americans have stood by and watched as the Internal Revenue Service has dipped deeper and deeper into our paychecks, and the Federal Reserve has entrenched itself into the economy. Maybe because we didn?t really want to know the truth, we?ve never even bothered to ask the tough questions.

In the same vein, no one questioned the Social Security program until just a few years ago. Everyone assumed it was healthy and would be solvent forever. But now we know that it's in deep financial trouble, and it's not clear whether or not it can even be saved.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE ISN'T FEDERAL
It?s incredible how few people know the facts about the Federal Reserve. The organization chaired by Alan Greenspan is not "Federal" ? it is instead a cabal of private and international banks that does not answer to the United States government. And while there is some precious metal stored in Fort Knox, it doesn't back the fiat currency that they issue, because nothing backs it except your trust in the system! Even a casual look at the Fed?s history leads one to wonder how an institution that profits mightily from its own policies by victimizing Americans has maintained control over the money of the wealthiest nation on Earth. For those who have made a serious inquiry, the Federal Reserve is shadowed in deceptive origins and fraudulent policies.

Are people who attack the Federal Reserve just conspiracy theorists? Definitely not. Many don?t believe a conspiracy has taken place ? they simply feel that the current system is out of control.

Maybe they're right, and the Federal Reserve is an outgrowth of a few bad decisions made ninety years ago and carried forth to their logical extensions by well-meaning, but misguided, public servants. On the other hand, hundreds of authors and commentators have gathered an impressive body of facts and documentation that show how the U.S. Constitution was deliberately circumvented to allow the central bankers control over our money, and how the IRS uses scare tactics and even violence to browbeat American citizens. These students of the nation?s monetary system aren?t kooks - they?re professors, political scientists, judges, Congressmen and Presidents.

    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Frederick Bastiat; economist, statesman, author of The Law


GREENSPAN KNOWS THE DANGER BUT CAN'T STOP IT
Whatever the true nature of the Federal Reserve, it is dangerous to the long-term financial health of our country. Its money and its policies will eventually lead to total financial ruin, just as they nearly did during the Great Depression. The facts are inescapable ? even the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, Alan Greenspan, understands the danger and seems unable or unwilling to save us.

    "In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold.... The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

    "This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights."

    - Alan Greenspan; "Gold and Economic Freedom"



IT'S NOT QUITE MONOPOLY MONEY, BUT IT'S A MONEY MONOPOLY
For the newly initiated, these revelations are followed by anger, frustration and a good old American shrug followed by, "What can I do?" Enter the Liberty Dollar - the solution the Federal Reserve's 'money monopoly'. On October 1, 1998, the first Liberty Dollar, which is 100% backed and 100% redeemable in gold and silver, rolled off the presses. The Liberty Dollar provides a simple solution: "Stop using Federal Reserve money and start using the Liberty Dollar to return America to value - one dollar at a time."

    ?The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.?
    ? Edmund Burke


IT'S LEGAL AND EVERYONE IS DOING IT
It might surprise you to learn that it?s totally legal to issue your own currency like the Liberty Dollar. In fact, there are over sixty communities in the U.S. that issue their own money (many have been reported in media outlets like The Wall Street Journal, Parade, ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN.) Many national newspapers, magazines, and TV stations -- and even radio star Paul Harvey -- have covered the Liberty Dollar itself. Legally, The Liberty Dollar is a warehouse receipt for a specific weight of pure .9999 fine gold or .999 fine silver that is stored in a warehouse in accordance with the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). The warehouse receipt is your proof of ownership, which means if you hold the receipt, you own that gold and silver.

So for the first time since 1913, you can own your own money. When the people own the money, the people control the government. When the government owns the money, the government controls the people.

REMEMBER THE POST OFFICE BEFORE FEDEX?
Bernard von NotHaus, the Liberty Dollar's Monetary Architect, explains that for years America was saddled with a slow, unresponsive Postal Service. Then one day, against all the odds, FedEx brought competition to the heavily subsidized government agency that no one thought could ever change. To the surprise of many, the Postal Service responded and improved service noticeably. The Liberty Dollar emulates this model. It is a useful currency that competes in the marketplace with Federal Reserve Notes. Liberty Dollar silver certificates fit in the cash register and function on a 1-to-1 basis with the Federal Reserve Notes so they are easy for businesses to use. The new currency is available in the same convenient denominations: $1, $5 and $10 in silver plus a $500 gold certificate.

THE LIBERTY DOLLAR IS SUPERIOR MONEY
The first step in repealing the Federal Reserve is to identify "the choir". To finance such an ambitious goal, we use this novel product, money, to bring together the millions of Americans who have long questioned the Federal Reserve's constitutional legality; much less its benevolence. Through the use of beautiful artwork, an image of the Statue of Liberty, brilliant colors, serial numbers, silver foil, a hologram and superior counterfeit features on special paper, The Liberty Dollar is designed to solicit a response! And, voila! The choir has been growing ever since 1998. Over a million dollars has already been converted into Liberty Dollars, and as hard times ahead become painfully more evident, the tide continues to move against the Federal Reserve.

Our idea is to return the ownership of the money to the people, as a means of returning control of the country to the people. By converting your old, tired, dreaded Federal Reserve Notes into gold and silver certificates that are backed, insured, and guaranteed by a monthly independent audit, you also join the silent movement towards the repeal of the Federal Reserve, which has been identified as the institution at the root of many current U.S. and global financial problems.

"It?s only a matter of time before the truth is revealed that the Federal Reserve is nothing more than a national scam that has ripped off the American people and enslaved them with perpetual debt," according to von NotHaus. "I ask all concerned Americans to use The Liberty Dollar as an educational catalyst to bring about the repeal of the Federal Reserve Act, and return the currency to a value-based system owned by the American people."

ACT NOW!
Using The Liberty Dollar is your way to say you?re concerned and want better money that is of, by and for people. Becoming a Liberty Associate is an easy way to make money, do good, and have fun. It is time for you to make a stand and exercise your Constitutional rights. Exchange your Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) for real gold and silver certificates and help return America to value - one Liberty Dollar at a time.


    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
    ? Thomas Jefferson


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3269523 - 10/23/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks, Ancalagon.

I'll assume that this is what Bleak was talking about.


Are you familiar with the Green Party position on this?
Reforming the Reserve by replacing the private players with elected officials?

Aside from the whole 'our money needs to be physically backed up' thing, do you have major objections to the Green plan?


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Gijith]
    #3269550 - 10/24/04 12:12 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gijith said:
Thanks, Ancalagon.

I'll assume that this is what Bleak was talking about.


Are you familiar with the Green Party position on this?
Reforming the Reserve by replacing the private players with elected officials?

Aside from the whole 'our money needs to be physically backed up' thing, do you have major objections to the Green plan?



Yes, the continued existence of the Federal Reserve, whether it's run by elected officials or not, is GROSSLY immoral. I truly think the federal reserve is the one thing that would lead the American populace to, or close to, revolution if they were truly aware of what it is and what it does. If you're interested, there are some great, non-conspiratorial, books on the subject.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3269593 - 10/24/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have a follow up question.
I'd look it up, but I'm sure you can give me a faster answer.


Of the world's industrialized countries, what percentage have something resembling our federal reserve?

And if you can suggest any books, I'll try and buy them. This is one issue where I'm on the Green/Libertarian fence.


--------------------
what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Gijith]
    #3269677 - 10/24/04 12:56 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Of the world's industrialized countries, what percentage have something resembling our federal reserve?




No idea off-hand though I'm sure I would know about it if there was a country on a sound-money standard. I would say without any set knowledge that the immense majority, if not all, current countries either have their own central bank or use the currency of another country with a central bank. I suggest doing that research if you have a few minutes.

Quote:

And if you can suggest any books, I'll try and buy them. This is one issue where I'm on the Green/Libertarian fence.



First, start by watching the documentary I listed above -- it's truly an awesome(and free!) starting point. If your interest is piqued, as it sounds like it is, read What has Government Done to Our Money by Murray Rothbard.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


Edited by Ancalagon (10/24/04 10:34 AM)


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3269758 - 10/24/04 01:27 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

now that everyones straight on what we're talking about....
why do you think it is we would buy money...?


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3269863 - 10/24/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have a collection of U.S. gold & silver certificates "redeemable in gold/silver" except that the gov't reniged on this promise and they can longer be redeemed for precious metals.

Hmmm, I wonder how much WWII Deutsche marks and U.S. Confederate currency is worth?  :rolleyes:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblederx
who run it
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 2,459
Loc: dx/dt
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Swami]
    #3273909 - 10/25/04 02:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

wow, before reading this thread I just got done studying the chapter on monetary policy of the Fed. Now came across this post... hmm


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better living through chemistry

OVERGROW the government!!

it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.


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InvisibleClean
the lense
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,366
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: BleaK]
    #3276436 - 10/25/04 08:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

bump


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Offlineendokrin
Stranger

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 142
Loc: SouthEast
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Clean]
    #3279909 - 10/26/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

How do you use the liberty dollar other than paying with this cash?
I get paid in USD via direct deposit, and I pay my bills online and pay for everything I buy with a debit card.

I don't get how it would work in this situation....?


--------------------
"If King Kong sells drugs, we'll put him in jail"


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: endokrin]
    #3279940 - 10/26/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You do buy it with cash(federal reserve notes). If your next question is, doesn't that defeat the purpose and aren't the NORFED people being extremely hypocritical in railing against the US dollar then accepting it readily, the answer is: No. They take the federal reserve notes they get and spend it on additional specie(gold/silver).


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3280100 - 10/26/04 05:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I always feel out of my element on these threads, and I studied economics. We spent one semester on money and banking and that was it. Nothing critical of the fed was taught, and I never gave it a second thought.

If we don't have a Fed will we go back to having depressions, 25-30% unemployment, starvation and economic collapse? Oh wait, we had that with the Fed. Friedman argued that if the Fed had acted to increase the money supply we could have avoided the Great Depression.

Couldn't we have a Fed that safeguarded against economic calamity and enhanced stabilization while still being somewhat under control? When the Fed creates money through open market operations, doesn't that money go to the governmeent? I have read that the return on assests at the Fed is very small to the investors adjusted for inflation.

Sometimes I think the problem is our deficit and nation debt. Maybe if we had our ducks in line in other areas and government wasn't so damn big we could concentrate and take a harder look at the Fed. To me, the Fed doesn't seem like a high priority with all of our other problems.

These conversations all seem to go over my head when it comes to gold and central banking, and I consider myself smarter than the average bear.

I am going to watch that video. Maybe I should have done that first.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3280284 - 10/26/04 06:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Now the challenge is to get vending machines to accept liberty dollars.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 10,378
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Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3281248 - 10/26/04 09:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Gold/silver standard is bunk.

It's not a set value, it varies as much as our unbacked, paper money does.

Let's say you've got $500 worth of gold.

Tomorrow, we find a 500-ton asteroid of pure gold, and pull it back to earth.

Do you still have $500 worth of gold?

Alternatively, what if we discover that we can prevent and cure all disease, but must consume gold to do so?

Would that still be $500 worth of gold?

It's still all supply/demand. Blar.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3281271 - 10/26/04 09:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It's not completely set in stone, but it's a hell of a lot more stable than fiat currency.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: why dont we print our own money? [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3281346 - 10/26/04 10:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It's not a set value, it varies as much as our unbacked, paper money does.




Total bullshit. You presented a perfectly clear argument demonstrating that commodity-backed currency does indeed experience some inflation/deflation based on supply and demand. You will not find a single backer of the gold/silver standard who would refute that argument for two reasons. One, it's true. Two, it's irrelevant. Do you honestly see NO difference between wealth in the form of gold being discovered and therefore thrown into the mix of the economy, and some people deciding to print fiat paper as requested by the whims of politicians? Do you think a golden asteroid hitting the earth is as common as the fed deciding to inflate the currency. Most of what you said is true but irrelevant; I take serious issue, however, with the claim that gold/silver-based currency fluctuates the same as fiat currency. Prove it.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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