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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: durian_2008] * 2
    #29627321 -

durian_2008 said:
Rather than trying to nail verbal gello to the wall, can anyone define key differences between democratic socialism and communism?


I don’t know if you have me on ignore still but:


Democratic socialism: a largely capitalist society with a strong social safety net. This is typically referred to as the Nordic model.

The DSA national platform is more akin to social democracy, which is to the right of that.

Obviously, this isn’t remotely communism.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #29627351 -

Who controls the means of production, under democratic socialism, and to what degree is property private? Do taxation and inflation still exist?


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WEF defector.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shit-burgers-meat-made-from-human-feces-just-another-natela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series)

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: durian_2008] * 2
    #29627499 -

DSA wants to abolish capitalism, but that is so far down the road that it doesn’t even warrant consideration.

Taxation and inflation exist under any economic system, given the current global paradigm. These are mechanisms inherent to inequality. In a classless, stateless, moneyless society, they wouldn’t exist.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #29627570 -

Adding to this with regard to Durian’s question:

The DSA draws a distinction between personal ownership of property (homes, vehicles, belongings) and corporate ownership of property for the purpose of profit.

The DSA seeks to place the largest corporations (telecommunications for example), energy sectors, natural resources, and major infrastructure under public ownership rather than ownership by private shareholders.

The DSA platform does not eliminate the private ownership of personal property.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #29627595 -

The Ecstatic said:
DSA wants to abolish capitalism, but that is so far down the road that it doesn’t even warrant consideration.

Taxation and inflation exist under any economic system, given the current global paradigm. These are mechanisms inherent to inequality. In a classless, stateless, moneyless society, they wouldn’t exist.


There are a couple of things that I have requested in the Marketplace, for years now, that I could theoretically just buy.

How would things work in a moneyless society?


--------------------
WEF defector.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shit-burgers-meat-made-from-human-feces-just-another-natela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series)

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: GerryD]
    #29627598 -

GerryD said:
... ownership by private shareholders.



We might define the bourgeois, middle class as those private shareholders or rent seekers, whose money is used to make money?


--------------------
WEF defector.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shit-burgers-meat-made-from-human-feces-just-another-natela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series)

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: durian_2008]
    #29627728 -

durian_2008 said:
The Ecstatic said:
DSA wants to abolish capitalism, but that is so far down the road that it doesn’t even warrant consideration.

Taxation and inflation exist under any economic system, given the current global paradigm. These are mechanisms inherent to inequality. In a classless, stateless, moneyless society, they wouldn’t exist.


There are a couple of things that I have requested in the Marketplace, for years now, that I could theoretically just buy.

How would things work in a moneyless society?


I wouldn’t worry about it.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #29627753 -

It's nice when different ways of doing things can be discussed civilly.

But, do these transitions actually happen in a hurry?



--------------------
WEF defector.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shit-burgers-meat-made-from-human-feces-just-another-natela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upload_(TV_series)

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #29633208 -

How does DSA want to abolish capitalism?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: sudly]
    #29633256 -

"Democratic socialism is a political ideology that combines a democratic government with a socially or publicly controlled economy."

Making all industries state run you rob the position of ceo from benefiting from profits.  Capitalism involves private gains from the slave class of people, democratic socialism means the state profits off the slave class of people.  "Then helps the slaves with there basic needs" with out the goodness of there hearts.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope] * 2
    #29633286 -

Making all industries state run is nowhere in the DSA agenda.

Democratic socialism helps people not be corporate slaves, because they get basic security like healthcare out of their tax payments, rather than having to be beholden to employer provided healthcare.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: sudly]
    #29633590 -

Again you can't have it both way. If its state run like the dsa want then your trade off is relying on the state to save you not companies. If its state run then the state pays you and now you want them to tax you as well on your labor.

I don't understand your disconnect with there mission statements. Either you agree with private ownership like we currently have or don't and agree to a slave to the state where everything is state run like the democrats socialist want.

If I'm wrong please tell me how you see and feel the policy the DSA is making.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope] * 1
    #29633606 -

DSA is just about getting what you paid for.

Universal healthcare means you aren't chained to a company for healthcare. And it can be federally run, or have a mixed role with the state.

What are you proposing DSA is saying should be ran by the states? Its clearly not all industries, so dont conflate some abstract communist ideal with the DSA platform.

If universal healthcare is implemented, it doesnt mean there wont be private health insurance options.

It means a portion of what you pay in taxes comes back to you in the form of healthcare.

What mission statement are you referring to? Perhaps we can break it down for clarification.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope] * 1
    #29633620 -

Obviously state ownership isn't the only way for workers to own the means of production.  Workers holding a majority equity stake in companies would be enough to satisfy the definition, I would think.  Not that huge a change in terms of the financial infrastructure, markets, etc.  everything else proceeds as normal

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: ballsalsa]
    #29633647 -

"The DSA’s new platform calls for ownership of private corporations, free public college, rent control, state-run health care, "
Im going to ignore the rest of their statements as I don't care if reparations for slavery happens or not.
Ownership of private corporations is legally the state owning the company and running it.
https://program.dsausa.org/#we-fight-for
You can call it socialism or communism but that doesn't matter, results and consequences. How do you see this going in policy and the burden within.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope]
    #29633653 -

vicepope said:
"The DSA’s new platform calls for ownership of private corporations, free public college, rent control, state-run health care, "
Im going to ignore the rest of their statements as I don't care if reparations for slavery happens or not.
Ownership of private corporations is legally the state owning the company and running it.
https://program.dsausa.org/#we-fight-for
You can call it socialism or communism but that doesn't matter, results and consequences. How do you see this going in policy and the burden within.


Public ownership of essential industries like water and energy make sense to me.

But im not sure what largest corporations are being referred to.

"Free" means your taxes paid for it so you just get something for your taxes that benefits you, and education is just one good example. Some form of rent control makes sense, like a max of 10% increase per year in some Australian states.

And State run healthcare should mean universal healthcare with federal funding and state delivery.

Specifically what corporations are being referred to as what should be publicly owned seems essential to this discussion.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #29633656 -

The Ecstatic said:
durian_2008 said:
Rather than trying to nail verbal gello to the wall, can anyone define key differences between democratic socialism and communism?


I don’t know if you have me on ignore still but:


Democratic socialism: a largely capitalist society with a strong social safety net. This is typically referred to as the Nordic model.

The DSA national platform is more akin to social democracy, which is to the right of that.

Obviously, this isn’t remotely communism.


Dude... have you seen this? :

is=Iuyyp-C0djjVoKQ8

Right wing Americans really think Democrats are trying to do Communism.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #29633659 -

Don't use aoc is a all knowing source of anything. She doesn't even understand how power grids work. We don't raise wages because it raises the cost of everything else including rent. Germany doesn't have universal healthcare, gkv only cover 89% of sickness funds. Health care isn't a right and it never will be.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: vicepope]
    #29633667 -

Where did you read that Germany doesnt have universal healthcare?

Minimum wage as it is federally in the US is simply underpaying staff, and if a business cant survive it, then that business doesnt have a viable model.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The Democratic Socialists of America [Re: sudly]
    #29633690 -

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/germany

Finer details.


--------------------
The better guide to grow mushrooms.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Beware the power of one.  The power of two. The power of many.

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