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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: Gijith]
#5416096 - 03/18/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not me. It doesn't matter whether he was a Marxist leftist or a free-market conservative; he was a murderer first and foremost.
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03 
Posts: 8,670
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: Redstorm]
#5416846 - 03/18/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Not me. It doesn't matter whether he was a Marxist leftist or a free-market conservative; he was a murderer first and foremost.
Exactly.....a label on the polital compass does not make a man who he is, he does that by his actions.
That article reacts of biased.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: Redstorm]
#5416871 - 03/18/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Not me. It doesn't matter whether he was a Marxist leftist or a free-market conservative; he was a murderer first and foremost.
No, but "proving" that he leaned toward the other side is a very easy way to convince stupid people to vote for your side.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: Konnrade]
#5417128 - 03/18/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I often convince people of the fallacious nature of arithmetic by pointing out that Hitler believed one plus one equaled two.
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 1,165
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: lonestar2004]
#5417553 - 03/18/06 11:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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hitler was anti-social. duh.
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: zappaisgod]
#5417564 - 03/18/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I didn't see any shredding going on, at least not here.
Hitler jailed communists and socialists. He was also in bed with bankers(including King George's grand daddy) and large capitalist corporations such as IBM. Very contradictory of left-wing or socialist idealogy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstor..._Bush_Nazi_Link
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/27/print/main504730.shtml
I know of no lefty's who deal with capitalist corporations, though I am considering applying for a credit card.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: bukkake]
#5417571 - 03/18/06 11:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I know of no lefty's who deal with capitalist corporations
What about George Soros?
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: Silversoul]
#5417577 - 03/18/06 11:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quiet, you. Though I am glad you mentioned him, since I have never heard of him prior.
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Conservationist
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 435
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: lonestar2004]
#6596210 - 02/22/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Current Nazis (insane, evil, stupid) are also Socialists, in fact very leftist as this manifesto proves:
Platform for Jump-Starting Western Nations 1. Tax cuts for environmental objectives
Closing the chapter of environmental disaster in human history is our first objective. A simple mandate for change will not achieve its goal, as business is an ecosystem unto itself, and must be given a chance to transition gracefully to a new way of doing things, much as it absorbs any new cost or technology. Over a seven-year period, we will increase taxes while offering large tax cuts for those businesses that achieve environmental objectives; only those businesses which do not produce tangible goods or services, such as pornography and media producers, will remain at the higher tax rate. These tax cuts will be sizable enough to allow businesses to invest most of their income into adapting to environmental requirements, and at the same time, building up infrastructure and becoming more competitive.
The same program will be applied to individuals. Those households which own fewer objects, use less power and produce less waste, will be given a larger break than those who do. Television use will be a means of measuring a family's excess time and wealth. This will not be used excessively into pressuring individuals into a spartan existence, but to encourage limits on the excessive consumption of families as currently seen in the industrialized west.
2. Removal of normative objectives
In all western states, we will remove normative regulation including all governmental moral intervention with the population. There will be no laws regulating speech, or that punish some for excelling in any field; further, all affirmative action and compensatory civil rights legislation will be abolished. Governments will be prohibited for makign suggestions for "progressive" social reform, and will be limited to functional duties and to funding cultural organizations for the upkeep of traditional culture. In public education, independent groups without profit motive will establish what is in textbooks, excluding all propaganda previously emitting from government sources.
Further, welfare systems will be replaced with workfare programs, and all shelters for the disadvantaged will be moved away from functional areas of the city and given an institutional nature. All laws which regulate scholarships and hiring outside of strict meritocracy will be banished, and will be replaced by a system of promoting the most able. All anti-discrimination legislation in housing, hiring and education will be stricken from the books.
3. Restore autonomy to the states
In countries such a the United States, which are composed of independent state entities, these will be granted again their autonomy: the authority of the federal government will prevail in matters of international politics and that which is related to it, including the trafficking of dangerous weapons, but otherwise each state must define its own laws and crimes. There will be no interstate police agency; all issues of national security will be handled by each nation's equivalent of the CIA.
4. Reduction of legal complexity
Law will be written in plain English, barring the need for it to express logical construction, and lawmakers will be encouraged to reduce the amount of law on the books to a few simple principles per topic, or as close as is possible. Clearly corporate tort law will never be as simple as legislation regarding homicide, but the proliferation of laws built upon previous laws with no thought of a system of law as whole will end.
5. Repatriation of non-Germanic populations
In countries of Indo-European heritage, all non-Germanic populations and their offspring and possessions will be re-patriated to the appropriate area: Asians to Asia, African-Americans to Africa. Mixed Indo-European populations will be repatriated to Eastern Europe; mixed racial populations will be sent to Northern Africa or the Middle East, which are traditionally the areas for racial mixing. It will be acknowledged that this is not discriminatory, and no public scorn or retribution against these people will be permitted; they will be allowed to keep whatever wealth they have accrued, and will be treated honorably.
6. Create cultural center to oversee media
Between academia and government, leaders will be elected to a new cultural center, which receives funding from government and is administered by the people of the leadership caste. Government cannot withhold funding because it disagrees with the choices of this organization, which will be responsible for creating public media, textbooks and other methods of passing on learning from the past and present. This organization is responsible only to itself.
7. Reputable international politics
Outside of regulation of weapons of mass destruction (WMD), all National Socialist governments will withdraw from international politics. Tariffs will be fixed, and no longer a bargaining chip with which one pacifies local industry; high tariffs will be considered correct for every nation. All foreign aid programs will be disbanded.
8. All undeveloped land is purchased by government
Any land that is presently undeveloped, or in semi-natural state (open cleared fields), will be purchased by the government at market rates, and preserved as natural space. We have more than enough land for human use. Further, any land for which taxes have not been paid for three years, or which is derelict and empty, becomes property of the government and is preserved as natural space, or used in exchange for land which will become natural space. This will reintroduce money into the cities, and provide for the renovation of rotted inner city slums.
9. Tax incentives for inner city development
To further help inner city residents, taxes will be raised in the inner city and large breaks provided for those who develop properties in those areas. This will encourage an end to the large numbers of unused and collapsing buildings, which result in no-mans-land neighborhoods which are too violent for any person to live in.
10. Repeal of laws limiting citizen autonomy
Laws forbidding drug use, sodomy and rough personal conduct will be replaced by laws directing people who wish to engage in such behaviors toward specialized areas of each major city, chosen from derelict neighborhoods, where alone such things are permitted.
11. Return to strict meritocracy in hiring and education
All hiring and scholarships and educational admittance policies will return to a strict meritocracy: the most capable candidate is selected, regardless of his or her wealth or advantages.
12. Any area more than 50% concreted must begin planting
Localities will be charged to plant natural space in any area in which more than 50% of the available surface is covered with concrete or asphalt. Tax advantages will be offered to those who are renting or have bought in areas that are less than 50% concrete; higher taxes await those who wish to live on an unending slab of grey.
13. End tax-free status of religious organizations
Religion will be recognized as a business, and subject to the same taxes as any other business, with the ability to deduct any public works or environmental actions.
14. Certain destructive things banned
Banned, upon pain of death, will be: genetically modified foods; dumping of toxic waste; child molestation or possession of child pornography; possession of nerve toxins.
National Socialism
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
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thread necromancer!
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: Gijith]
#6596877 - 02/22/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gijith said: Does anyone really care if Hitler was a socialist?
I read Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto in High School. It gave me an understanding of the extremist totalitarian philosophies that threatened freedom.
You need to understand your enemy.
Its amazing that these discredited philosophies that caused the death of millions still have a draw in this day and age..... (Chavez, Ahmadinejhad ,Kim Jung Il and a Dying Castro all who have planned or now plan on being the new Hitler.)
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: lonestar2004]
#6596908 - 02/22/07 10:06 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I would say that lumping Chavez in with the rest of them would be going a bit far.
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: Redstorm]
#6596917 - 02/22/07 10:11 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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an extremist rarely goes too far in his own opinion
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: lonestar2004]
#6597277 - 02/22/07 01:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I read Mein Kampf
Helluva dull read isn't it.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: lonestar2004]
#6599408 - 02/22/07 08:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: I read Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto in High School. It gave me an understanding of the extremist totalitarian philosophies that threatened freedom.
I challenge you, sir... To find a single passage in the communist manifesto that could be considered totalitarian.
I am not a communist. Not even close. But I have read the communist manifesto many times. I have read a lot of Marx. Marx was not a totalitarian, and very little of what has happened in his name has anything to do with what he wrote about.
The communist manifesto was a prediction of what was going to happen to capitalism based on observations of what had already happened. At no point in the manifesto does marx condone totalitarian leadership.
Again, I challenge you to provide a single passage in which he does so.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: gluke bastid]
#6601455 - 02/23/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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The dictatorship of the proletariat...
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Arp
roving mycophagist


Registered: 04/20/98
Posts: 2,191
Loc: in a van by the river
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It strives for a stateless and a classless society, not really a dictatorship. I reckon it's condemned to fail in the same way as anarchism.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: The dictatorship of the proletariat...
First of all, a dictatorship of a group of people is an oxy-moron. Second of all, what did you mean by this anyway? Third of all, it doesn't have anything to do with what Marx ever wrote except you used a word he uses a lot.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST [Re: gluke bastid]
#6604421 - 02/24/07 12:11 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat." -- Karl Marx
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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It should be noted that Marx considered capitalism to be the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. So dictatorship of the proletariat, in his mind, simply meant a system in which the interests of the proletariat dictated policy.
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