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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign?
    #29615489 -

Should I maybe mist the tub at this phase?

I've been searching for about this... People say it is rhizomorphic mycelium. Is it trying to tell me something? Some people say it is a sign that it needs air, but considering my relatively low moisture inside the tub, I'd say that it has plenty of air.
It is strange to me that mycelium was relatively slow during colonization in the grain, and now in the substrate, it is so aggressive.




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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: PurpleShroom]
    #29615495 -

The more nutrients a substrate contains the slower the mycelium grows as it has to split its resources between digestion and growth. So because the bulk sub material is deficient in nutrients the mycelium grows a lot faster after spawning.

The rhizo strands that are poking out of the surface are what the hyphal knots form on and they supply the developing fruits with water and nutrients. They tend to overshoot the surface under cultivation conditions due to the high humidity and CO2 levels inside the tub.


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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29615711 -

Oh, tnx, I understand it now. Without food myc is investing all energy into colonization.

For greater humidity, I have just added a wet towel inside the wardrobe where the tub is, and now the moisture is fine, surfaces are getting droplets. :wink:

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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: PurpleShroom]
    #29616197 -

I don't know what to do now, should I mist it, or introduce more fresh air by removing plastic foil on all sides or leave it as it is? It looks insane:


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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: PurpleShroom]
    #29616366 -

I'd introduce more FAE at this stage. It will help stop the rhizo strands overshooting the surface and encourage the formation of hyphal knots.


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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29616971 -

I have removed all the plastic foil around the tub, so now FAE is at its maximum capacity but my concern is moisture. I have plenty of moisture on the tub sides where plastic foil was, but now as it is removed, I guess I'll have to start misting the tub's lid and substrate surface?

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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: PurpleShroom]
    #29616973 -

Nah, misting the tub walls and lid won't increase humidity significantly, keep an eye on the surface conditions, you want small beads of water like this.





If the tub is dialed in the beads will appear by themselves as the surface colonize, so if it doesn't, you kan lightly mist the surface with a fine spray directed upwards and free falling onto the surface :awesomenod:


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“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Kloakk]
    #29616988 -

Yeah, beads are the key now.

I have natural beads at the 3/4 of the surface where the plastic foil was covering, but near the main hole where air has been entering, there are no beads. So logically I should mist only that 1/4 part of the sub.

I guess natural beads are better then artificial, so I have put a wet towell around the tub to try to prevent the AC from drying the tub and potentially to gain more humidity inside the wardrobe shelf and inside the tub. :psychsplit:

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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: PurpleShroom] * 1
    #29616991 -

Those tiny droplets that form on the tips of the aerial hyphae just before hyphal knots form are guttation droplets produced by the underground mycelium that contain sugars, amino acids, enzymes and substances called fruiting factors that are thought to be involved in primordia and fruit development so they can't be replicated by misting and water droplets.

The observation that they appear and then disappear when the hyphal knots form is correct but what's going on is a lot more complicated than community lore suggests and has nothing to do with misting, condensation or evaporation.


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Edited by Dave Bennett (07/04/26 06:32 AM)

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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Dave Bennett] * 1
    #29617008 -

That may be, however, beads mostly won't form if the tub or an area of the surface is to dry, which by my crayon logic, results in no knots in that tub or area. If I mist(increase humidity in the tub or area) then the mycelium will want to knot there.

So monitoring surface conditions and misting if needed still applies right?


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“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Kloakk] * 1
    #29617020 -

Hey PurpleShroom, do yourself a favour and listen to Kloakk on growing. He’s good at it.

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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Kloakk] * 1
    #29617027 -

I think the guttation droplets are over-expressed under cultivation conditions because the high nutrient levels of the grain and the insulated conditions inside the tub cause substrate temperatures to increase as metabolic activity peaks as the mycelium prepares to fruit. The high humidity levels inside a tub probably play a big part in the droplets forming rather than evaporating and leaving the substances they secrete behind as would likely happen in nature too.

So maintaining substrate moisture and misting after fanning in un-modded tubs is still important but it just provides the humidity levels needed for fruiting rather than misting and evaporation being a pinning trigger. It's the substances inside the guttation droplets that are the pinning trigger.

This is pure speculation on my part but I think the evaporation rate of the droplets may play a part in the mycelium deciding where to form hyphal knots and develop fruits as the areas where the droplets evaporate fastest would indicate areas of lower humidity which would be less suitable for fruiting.

There's been some interesting research on the substances contained in the droplets. When the droplets are collected from one species they can induce fruiting in other species which suggests that the same substances are used to trigger hyphal knot formation across many or all basidiomycetes. Which means theoretically you could produce a spray from the droplets that would trigger fruiting in cubes.

"Fruiting Liquid" of Mushroom-Forming Fungi, A Novel Source of Bioactive Compounds - Fruiting-Body Inducer and HIF and Axl Inhibitors.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37650528/

Fungal Guttation, a Source of Bioactive Compounds, and Its Ecological Role—A Review.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8467351/


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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Dave Bennett]
    #29617152 -

:takingnotes:

Great stuff Dave, by all means, and as I wrote, if the tub is dialed in no misting or fanning is necessary. During the heat this year is the first time I had to mist a cube grow, it was very obvious that the places that was drying out also were the places I didn't get knots, so I misted the areas and knots formed.

Thanks for the insight and happy that we agree on monitoring surface conditions.

:highfive:


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Rhizomorphic mycelium on substrate, is it good sign? [Re: Kloakk]
    #29617741 -

Thanks for advices.

That's what I assume, I would like to buy that fruiting liquid, produce it please :grin:

I don't know do I have knots or not, it seems to me as I'm cultivating white grass. I have started misting yesterday, as Kloakk said, with fine mistifier from upward as a rain (nice idea)


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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