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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29497638 -

RRs 1/4" casing is a bit outdated and likely would appreciate a few days at 98%+ rH for a casing run.

Generally, if you're going to put it right into fruiting, you want it so thin you can still see the substrate some underneath.

Bisporus I case thicker and give two or three days to colonize the casing.

I think my photos are on my other phone.  Brb

Edit:  Thin casing (cyan) looks like this after 24 hours in the chamber without a cover.



Thick casing with bispo 24 hours with a cover.




Only mist if they look dry (color change from dark brown to light brown).  And don't over mist or they'll stall.  And if they're knotting or pinning, don't mist at all until they're big (or after the first flush finishes).

Which is just how I run things, other folks do it differently and have good success. I don't use verm at all so my strategy is likely different.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/25/26 06:35 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29497642 -

One thing I have not been really providing is direct light. My light soure is daylight light bulbs from a ceiling fan that is about 6 or 7 feet away. I was hoping this would cover my lighting requirement. I see a lot of grows with LEDs right on top of their tubs, and was wondering if I need to switch to something like this.

I don't have an IR thermometer but I guess I will test that out one day, or if someone can run some tests that would be nice. On jars inside a monotub with the lid offset, whether wrapped vs. unwrapped are warmer, with a light source at least 7 feet away.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29497643 -

Your light is fine.  They only see blue, and they only need as much light as the full moon to set circadian rhythms and for orientation.

However light can be used as a source of heat and evaporation.

I'm growing in black tubs and before that a tent.  So, I invested in lights and use them.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29497645 -

A bit of workflow confirmation. What is the consensus nowadays...
1) do spawn run, mixing with bulk fully (don't bother covering exposed grain), leave it alone to colonize / consolidate, then case
2) spawn run into bulk mix with little pseudocasing layer (of held back bulk mix), leave to colonize / consolidate, then apply casing.

I also think I remember baba doing essentially the 2nd one with no casing afterwards.



I just spawned two last night with plain coir springled thin to cover exposed pan grains in both my manure tub and the CV+ tub, just from being on autopilot from running my cubes. So, should i plan casing later?


--------------------
My posts are long winded and dense.
Supplemented coir experiments< Currently ongoing spring 2026.

~Agar~ 1000mL water = 1000g water. use ~1% agar...1% of 1000g is 10g.  For cubes, use between 1-2% nutes (10-20g). For pans use 0.5% nutes (5g).

Everything I have typed is purely fiction, and is purely for personal amusement.
All images I've posted are not mine and I am simply posting interesting things I found on the Google.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Kunta Kente]
    #29497650 -

2 but with substrate generally rather than coir is how I did bulk last.  But my little jars essentially run like 1 and also do fine.

And I would wait until it's colonized to case it.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tultedspoon] * 1
    #29497660 -

OK thank you TF that helps, I didn't mist at all after I applied to give the structure time to stabilize. It looked like some misting may be good today to help that microenvironment closer to the mycelium, so I am slowly trying to add misting in short intervals so that I don't compress the substrate.

I'm sure peat is great but I already have too much soil. Money is an issue for me at the moment so I can't afford to just get new casings when I already have a ton of material. I saw some sphagum peat moss that was reasonably priced, almost got it but then I read a thread that said that kind was no good. I did a ton of reading and a lot of people were having success with moisture control soil being a well-rounded (not great, but should give results) option for Pans, especially for non-cyan (they may have said copelandia and related? I'm so confused the names all run together). I figured I would give it a shot with the verm, the consistency does look promising and if no pasteurizing is truly required then this is a big plus for me.

I'm just not at the level where pasteurizing is easily incorporated into my routine. The one time I did try my contams were worse, when done on the soil I have. I've never made my own agar before, so that is next on the table but still a couple weeks out. I already have too much going on at the moment.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tultedspoon] * 2
    #29497711 -

Structure is important but I imagine they'll pin off your soil if they are able to colonize it.

And I want to clarify something about light and pinning.  They will use light to orient themselves but it's not a pin trigger in the same way it is for a species like lion's mane which can start to knot as soon as it's exposed to light.

The main triggers are full colonization, temperature around the mid 70s for most species we work with here, and breaching the casing or substrate surface.  This last one is important as the aerial hyphae signal a morphological shift (i.e knots).

So if the casing is thick or wet, and if the mycelium isn't able to break the surface, it won't knot.

Light is more about orientation and is one of many environmental factors that they use to decide where to fruit.  Gravity being another one.

So the thing about glass jars is if they're not able to break the surface of the casing, they'll sense the light elsewhere, and try to fruit there if they can form aerial hyphae along the sides of the jar.

Tldr
They can sense what direction up is, and if the conditions are right that's where they are going to prefer to make mushrooms.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/25/26 07:33 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29497968 -

tree frog said:
2 but with substrate generally rather than coir is how I did bulk last.  But my little jars essentially run like 1 and also do fine.

And I would wait until it's colonized to case it.


ok sweet, sounds like my global workflow is totally fine then.

The only difference is after 2 progresses i case with pans vs no case with cubes. Thank you thank you. I guess I'll do pics of these comparisons as they go.

Really I need to go back and run them with literally the same genetics instead of pulls from the same plate, for a true comparison, but that's in a month or so ~~


--------------------
My posts are long winded and dense.
Supplemented coir experiments< Currently ongoing spring 2026.

~Agar~ 1000mL water = 1000g water. use ~1% agar...1% of 1000g is 10g.  For cubes, use between 1-2% nutes (10-20g). For pans use 0.5% nutes (5g).

Everything I have typed is purely fiction, and is purely for personal amusement.
All images I've posted are not mine and I am simply posting interesting things I found on the Google.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29497977 -

tultedspoon said:
OK thank you TF that helps, I didn't mist at all after I applied to give the structure time to stabilize. It looked like some misting may be good today to help that microenvironment closer to the mycelium, so I am slowly trying to add misting in short intervals so that I don't compress the substrate.

I'm sure peat is great but I already have too much soil. Money is an issue for me at the moment so I can't afford to just get new casings when I already have a ton of material. I saw some sphagum peat moss that was reasonably priced, almost got it but then I read a thread that said that kind was no good. I did a ton of reading and a lot of people were having success with moisture control soil being a well-rounded (not great, but should give results) option for Pans, especially for non-cyan (they may have said copelandia and related? I'm so confused the names all run together). I figured I would give it a shot with the verm, the consistency does look promising and if no pasteurizing is truly required then this is a big plus for me.

I'm just not at the level where pasteurizing is easily incorporated into my routine. The one time I did try my contams were worse, when done on the soil I have. I've never made my own agar before, so that is next on the table but still a couple weeks out. I already have too much going on at the moment.



I mean...literally anyone can pasteurize simply by using the largest ziplock bag you need. Press the air out, put a heavy glass or something on the bag to weight it down, and put it in a pot of water with a thermometer in it.

Even with the bulk substrate we use you can use a cheese bag, pillow case, or something like that and pasteurize the whole bag of whatever you want. It will get soupy but you just drain and squeeze to field capacity and you're good.


So, no special equipment or anything is needed. It's literally a CORE TEMP @ 140-160 deg F for X time. If it's a soupy mess in a mesh bag, that "core temp" is essentially a few minutes after submersion.


Edit: The 'mesh bag' and SEALED bag (ziplock) methods I would strongly say need to be used quickly after it cools down. That's not a 'pasteurize today to use it in a few days' method.


--------------------
My posts are long winded and dense.
Supplemented coir experiments< Currently ongoing spring 2026.

~Agar~ 1000mL water = 1000g water. use ~1% agar...1% of 1000g is 10g.  For cubes, use between 1-2% nutes (10-20g). For pans use 0.5% nutes (5g).

Everything I have typed is purely fiction, and is purely for personal amusement.
All images I've posted are not mine and I am simply posting interesting things I found on the Google.

Edited by Kunta Kente (02/25/26 10:17 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29498062 -

Kunta Kente said:
tultedspoon said:
OK thank you TF that helps, I didn't mist at all after I applied to give the structure time to stabilize. It looked like some misting may be good today to help that microenvironment closer to the mycelium, so I am slowly trying to add misting in short intervals so that I don't compress the substrate.

I'm sure peat is great but I already have too much soil. Money is an issue for me at the moment so I can't afford to just get new casings when I already have a ton of material. I saw some sphagum peat moss that was reasonably priced, almost got it but then I read a thread that said that kind was no good. I did a ton of reading and a lot of people were having success with moisture control soil being a well-rounded (not great, but should give results) option for Pans, especially for non-cyan (they may have said copelandia and related? I'm so confused the names all run together). I figured I would give it a shot with the verm, the consistency does look promising and if no pasteurizing is truly required then this is a big plus for me.

I'm just not at the level where pasteurizing is easily incorporated into my routine. The one time I did try my contams were worse, when done on the soil I have. I've never made my own agar before, so that is next on the table but still a couple weeks out. I already have too much going on at the moment.



I mean...literally anyone can pasteurize simply by using the largest ziplock bag you need. Press the air out, put a heavy glass or something on the bag to weight it down, and put it in a pot of water with a thermometer in it.

Even with the bulk substrate we use you can use a cheese bag, pillow case, or something like that and pasteurize the whole bag of whatever you want. It will get soupy but you just drain and squeeze to field capacity and you're good.


So, no special equipment or anything is needed. It's literally a CORE TEMP @ 140-160 deg F for X time. If it's a soupy mess in a mesh bag, that "core temp" is essentially a few minutes after submersion.


Edit: The 'mesh bag' and SEALED bag (ziplock) methods I would strongly say need to be used quickly after it cools down. That's not a 'pasteurize today to use it in a few days' method.

sometimes people don
tultedspoon said:
OK thank you TF that helps, I didn't mist at all after I applied to give the structure time to stabilize. It looked like some misting may be good today to help that microenvironment closer to the mycelium, so I am slowly trying to add misting in short intervals so that I don't compress the substrate.

I'm sure peat is great but I already have too much soil. Money is an issue for me at the moment so I can't afford to just get new casings when I already have a ton of material. I saw some sphagum peat moss that was reasonably priced, almost got it but then I read a thread that said that kind was no good. I did a ton of reading and a lot of people were having success with moisture control soil being a well-rounded (not great, but should give results) option for Pans, especially for non-cyan (they may have said copelandia and related? I'm so confused the names all run together). I figured I would give it a shot with the verm, the consistency does look promising and if no pasteurizing is truly required then this is a big plus for me.

I'm just not at the level where pasteurizing is easily incorporated into my routine. The one time I did try my contams were worse, when done on the soil I have. I've never made my own agar before, so that is next on the table but still a couple weeks out. I already have too much going on at the moment.

3 cubic feet of peat moss nowadays  at home depot 15 or 17 bucks deal cause is out of season, manure can be picked up at any polo park or any horse riding area , for personal needs enough to have a couple buckets of horse poo for entire winter, and sand instead of verm for casing... If you struggle you can get all you need for a price of one meal at McDonalds

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29498151 -

tree frog said:
Pit pat said:
I’ve noticed that the majority of people seem to inoculate grain from agar wedges or LC.  Are grain to grain transfers not advisable with pans?  If it was initially inoculated from agar, and appears to be clean.


Pans deal less well with minor bacterial contamination than cubes.  And grain to grain is one more opportunity to accidentally get bacteria in your jars.

Personally speaking, I've never found a need for that much grain.  And if I did, I would inoculate multiple jars off one plate rather than doing a g2g.


Thank you.  Makes sense

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Pit pat]
    #29498161 -

Put my only old Pan culture on agar to give it one more try but it seems weak. Four days since I put it on agar

I'd get fresh spores but even spores are illegal in my country now  :mad2:


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ansr] * 2
    #29498191 -

so…. lets spin the wheel..
am i about to get bitchslapped by trich for probably improper pasteurisation (might have done 1 hr instead of 2)
or does this look lile pan cyan (naolinco) ?
any takers?



--------------------
the observer is the observed
            j. krishnamurti


>The Hitchhiker‘s Guide to the Shroomery<

Edited by chris77 (02/26/26 05:35 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: chris77] * 2
    #29498226 -

Good morning happy campers...

I reckon you look alright there dude, just looks like whispy pan cyan mycelium, you'll get a think blanket of that on top most likely - under/within which your pins will form. Congrats broskie!

:crazykitty: Hypno-cat says: Good job buddy, well to the Psn Cyan revolution!

Hey Tuttledspoon, what you said about pasteurizing...

I literally just put it into a bucket or a sandwich tub depending on how much I need and boil the kettle, pour the boiling water in so that all the material is submerged with a little on top, then cover with tin foil for an hour giving it a vigorous stir every 15 mins. Ta-da!

When you say about working it into your routine, you don't realise how clownish it sounds. First you don't have a routine, not one for success anyway which means whatever you're referring to is null and void.

DO-YOUR-RESEARCH , SELECT-TEK, FOLLOW-WORD-FOR-WORD.

Some might not have to do it that way, you do. You've tried inventing your own tricks and you're just falling off your board. I've got 11 AIO's spread between boxes of 3 different sizes and I'm working specifically on pans, whether it's temp, misting, ingredients, there's stuff that could help you actually get something going moving forward.

Instead of constantly reading tragic story followed by tragic questions.

Please consider what others and myself have said. Pasteurizing isn't a choice - your only way around it is using brown rice flour in PF tek which is what you should be doing anyway - especially when using MS syringes!!!

Good luck, I hope to see you turn it around


--------------------
Be lucky, may light walk with you.





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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: conz0r]
    #29498231 -

conz0r said:
Good morning happy campers...

I reckon you look alright there dude, just looks like whispy pan cyan mycelium, you'll get a think blanket of that on top most likely - under/within which your pins will form. Congrats broskie!

:crazykitty: Hypno-cat says: Good job buddy, well to the Psn Cyan revolution!


cheers buddy
these my first pans :awesomenod:
:stayfunky:

Edited by chris77 (02/26/26 07:13 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: chris77] * 2
    #29498297 -

ansr said:
Put my only old Pan culture on agar to give it one more try but it seems weak. Four days since I put it on agar

I'd get fresh spores but even spores are illegal in my country now  :mad2:




It might pick up the pace as it keeps recovering.  So I wouldn't write off it's vigor until it's been transferred.  And I would take multiple transfers to one plate so you can be sure to snag the healthiest growth.

@chris77 it's looking good fam!


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/26/26 07:58 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29498678 -

I will try that  :thumbup:  Should I place the transfers close or far from each other on the new plate?

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ansr] * 2
    #29498688 -



About like this.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tree frog]
    #29498717 -

tree frog said:


About like this.


Hi. Is the reason you placed 3 colonies is to avoid getting haploid mycelium?

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Noah Keeper]
    #29498871 -

Foreighn2891 said:
tree frog said:


About like this.


Hi. Is the reason you placed 3 colonies is to avoid getting haploid mycelium?


Your wording is wrong. If you mistyped then ignore this, but if she is doing what you're suggesting, it would be to remain monokaryotic or control dikaryotic production (mating).

Spore = haploid. Monokaryotic = haploid (n) in single cellular compartment. Dikaryotic = two haploid in single cellular compartment (n+n). Only true diploid briefly right before sporulation.



Regardless, she could be doing it to isolate monokaryotes like that, or many do that (3 wedge transfer in triangle pattern) just to minimize plate cycling. It's my go to for MS > T1 > T2


--------------------
My posts are long winded and dense.
Supplemented coir experiments< Currently ongoing spring 2026.

~Agar~ 1000mL water = 1000g water. use ~1% agar...1% of 1000g is 10g.  For cubes, use between 1-2% nutes (10-20g). For pans use 0.5% nutes (5g).

Everything I have typed is purely fiction, and is purely for personal amusement.
All images I've posted are not mine and I am simply posting interesting things I found on the Google.

Edited by Kunta Kente (02/26/26 04:49 PM)

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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Boomr Bag   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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