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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29419746 -

Yeah no pressure, I just think there's probably a ton of people that would appreciate you doing a PF tek, BRF with verm (no coir, no worm, no gypsum), and seeing if you can fruit them off cakes in a water tub. I'm challenging you to just those conditions, because the research regarding just that is limited. I think if we had some insight from you who has done several pan grows, will be able to dial in the fruiting conditions for other basic people out there who don't have heating mats, grow lights (I can do a flashlight lantern). And choose a strain of Panaeolus that is more difficult, not the easiest Pan strain to grow. I think this could really help out a lot of people working with various pan species, possibly even undiscovered pan species or mixed species. This is science in it's most basic form. Very specific set of conditions, and the objective is to help get more info on the humidity and evaporation timings, lenghts, etc.

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon] * 2
    #29419760 -

Turtle take these questions and stuff to the proper thread like you were asked or better yet use your own.
Yes pans will fruit on grain and bulk substrate (/ coir/verm/ straw ) or even just cased grain this isn't anything new we've know this for decades


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon] * 1
    #29419765 -

Thanks Cronicr.  Speaking of, here's some cased popcorn.  Brown rice I'm sure would work too.

Pans and Nitrogen Needs
Recently I was digging into the nitrogen needs of pans, as well as the nitrogen content of the grain I use most often, popcorn.  And while it's difficult to figure out exactly how much nitrogen is in corn, I was able to approximate it by converting the protien over using this calculator.
https://norganics.com/index-2/calculation-pages/convert-protein-to-nitrogen/

What I found was that the nitrogen in corn already falls within the C:N ranges preffered by at least one species of Copelandia, Panaeouls bisporus, or at least, the bisporus that grows in Europe and Asia (which maybe a different species than the North American Panaeolus bisporus).  That range, for reference, is 25-35 C to 1 N.  Meaning, for every 30 grams of available carbon, the mycelium needs 1 gram of available nitrogen.  The ratios were pulled from this research paper, originally published in China.
https://europepmc.org/article/CBA/602890

So, I figured I'd give it a try.  Which is the picture posted above.

Around two cups popcorn spawn of bvi - bc* and a healthy covering of mineral rich casing from a previous post (which also contains some nitrogen, as it is supplemented with worm castings).

Granted, I expect the lack of moisture from coir or other substrate will affect morphology and yeild.  But for projects where we're looking for a fast turn around, such as breeding, or for sus jars, it looks like cased grains can work.  Especially if the grain is high in protien (wheat and brown rice both are too).

And in this case anyway, I imagine the casing is supplying a lot of nutrients too.  Both NKP and minerals.



--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29419785 -

In regards to your comment on the casing supplying nutrients and staying on topic, so it's not too late for a casing to supply nutrients for the fruits? I was wondering at what point the mycelium "roots" or primordia need to be finalized and if adding some fertilized soil in a substrate as I expand a cake out, or if even just adding some sprinkled on top as a casing at the end, would be too late for formed mycelium bodies to use extra nutrients, just to see if things will go smoother or yields be better.

So it's not too late for a casing to supply some nutrients? I always thought ideally the roots are already formed and the shrooms rise through the casing layer, or if they can use it as nutrients.

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tultedspoon]
    #29419834 -

Following this because I'm going to buy a humidifier/fogger and just want to experiment....
I'm very interested in pans


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Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Wes377]
    #29419844 -

The nitrogen in worm castings is water soluble, and the colony will continue to absorb nitrogen and carbon from the substrate as long as it's alive. It's part of its primary metabolic processes.

So with worm castings in the casing every time you water you are adding more nitrogen for the colony. And of course the colony will continue to extract carbon from the grains.

I've consistently gotten about four flushes out of that casing.  They can go a fifth but at that point the mushrooms are very small.

The cased popcorn got three flushes.  I believe there's a photo of the third flush in that the fruiting chamber post.

Edit
Oh and they usually colonize the casing at least some.  Plus the nitrogen gives nutrients for the grass and bacteria when I use them.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/04/25 08:21 PM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29420459 -

Great thread.
:camping:


--------------------
For it is only Darkness that crafts one to thrive in the Light. As illumination of the soul, its brilliance unmatched.
               
                    🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕
  :sporedrop:Gymnopilus subspectibilis grow log:sporedrop:             
•89g fresh subspectibilis tea•
•Rapéh Crafters•
• Gift yourself a healthy dose of Self banning•

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Soloist]
    #29425503 -

Im trying to grow ttbvi as my first pan but next Ill try to get a lc of pan bisporus because you said the effects of it is different and more of a relaxed feeling.

Anything else you can tell me about the subjective effects and which minor compounds could be responsible for that?

Also are they grown the same way as ttbvi?
Any tips specific to bisporus?


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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29426048 -

They're slower so you have to be patient and not love them to death.

As far as the alkaloids, from what we are testing and what we understand. The biggest difference between the two is the cyans tend to have a lot of psilocin in them even when dry,  The bisporus is more balanced but heavier on psilocybin.

I don't know if you've ever lemon teked cubes, but cyans are more similar to that.

But honestly I'm of the opinion that we aren't doing thorough enough testing, all psilocybin producing mushrooms also produce MAOIs. I've debated with people about whether or not that would have any effect on the subjective experience. My opinion is it depends, there are a lot of different beta carbolins, like over 300 that we know of in nature.

So I don't know. And to be honest I'm a little witchy, so maybe I'm just more attached to a mushroom that I have to care for for longer. And who knows maybe those mushrooms pick up on that :shrug:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/10/25 08:53 PM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29426161 -

ty

What about worm casting in substrates?


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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Anomalocaris] * 1
    #29426299 -

It's on my to try list.  But I have seen a grow on just worm castings and grain.  And here thirdeyewild talks about using them with coir and what ratios work well.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29374388#29374388


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29427616 -

tree frog said:
So I don't know. And to be honest I'm a little witchy, so maybe I'm just more attached to a mushroom that I have to care for for longer. And who knows maybe those mushrooms pick up on that :shrug:


:loveheart:


--------------------
For it is only Darkness that crafts one to thrive in the Light. As illumination of the soul, its brilliance unmatched.
               
                    🌕🌖🌗🌘🌑🌒🌓🌔🌕
  :sporedrop:Gymnopilus subspectibilis grow log:sporedrop:             
•89g fresh subspectibilis tea•
•Rapéh Crafters•
• Gift yourself a healthy dose of Self banning•

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Soloist]
    #29428005 -

Things to try

Biochar in casings.  1/20th

Stuff about casing supplementation with worm castings vs spent coir fiber.

https://sci-hub.st/download/zero/downloads/2022-11-09/7a/duran2022.pdf

Edit:  Wow I was up way too late researching mushrooms.  Anyway, I think I'm going to try 5% biochar, 5% castings, 30% coir, and 60% pH adjusted peat with calcium carbonate (2:1).

Edited by tree frog (12/13/25 07:18 AM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29428219 -

Guess I'm getting coal for Christmas.

https://www.farmstandapp.com/220702/6-biochar-for-mushroom-cultivation-methods-that-prevent-common-issues

Thoughts from that post.  Biochar should be 'charged' when used in a substrate, as it will absorb nutrients and trap them.  From my research last night I also learned that leached worm castings might be better in the casing.  Simple solution, use worm tea to charge the biochar for the substrate and use the left over castings for casing material.  In the casing, I can use biochar as a direct ammendment.  Wakefield biochar is made from wood and affordable for the amount I'll be using.  So I'll be giving that a try.

Anomalocaris said:
tree frog said:
Anomalocaris said:


Here they are. What do you think is going on with the not as nice looking ones? They are all transfers from a couple of nice looking and symmetrical plates. I have an FFU and sterilise my cork borer in PC to make transfers and flame it outside my FFU every about 3 transfers.

Either theres some bacterias riding along somehow or its just how some pan cyan grows im starting to think.

And/or maybe they also dont like charcoal that much?


Sectoring.  The charcoal is causing the mycelium to sector more.

Very cool :smile:  How much charcoal did you use?


I used 4g of activated charcoal in 400 ml of water


Also want to try this.  Anyway, just making notes for now.  If this leads to anything cool I'll do a write up and add the post to the index in the OP.

Side note:  Growing weed I can use many of these same products, and then use the spent canna soil as a casing ammendment at 40%, and as my substrate with resupplementation.  Alfafa meal fits into this somewhere too.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (12/13/25 10:10 AM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29428790 -

For what reason you want to try charcoal agar? just for fun?

WoW charcoal seems to be good shit even for substrate and casing!

Time to revolutionize the pan cyan game with charcoal!

Santa bring us some coal


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Edited by Anomalocaris (12/13/25 08:56 PM)

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29428962 -

I'll likely redo my AIO jar tek and test it.  5% alfalfa meal, 5% castings, 5% biochar, 85% coir all by dry weight.

Hydrate to field capacity and add grain.  Probably grass seed.

As to the charcoal agar, sectoring is helpful for strain selection.  And I want to play with it :shrug:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29428968 -

I just took the most symmetrical charcoal plate and made 10 more regular plates. Lets see if they are all gonna be super symmetry


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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Anomalocaris] * 1
    #29429014 -

Bookmarking this! Ty

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: Nate em All] * 4
    #29429353 -

Prototyping the frogger, a gnat resistant environmentally controlled auto tub.

Some air current tests, after I did some research on a cannabis forum.  Notice the vortexing.





So after doing quite a bit of studying, the conclusion I've come to is the the warmer the temperature is in the chamber come of the more exhaust cycles are needed to clear out co2.

In addition to being gnat free, this will be a warm mist setup, using sensors the credit card company bought me for Christmas.  My goal is to cycle it similar to how Jake does his tent, while allowing the sensors to dial in those cycles as needed so that I'm not having to play with it manually every time the rH in the house shifts.

I will be using heating pads to keep the tub warm and prevent condensation on the lid, and plan to run it at 80f during the day.

4 two inch holes, 2 two inch fans.  One very nice fogger.

Once it's actually built and proofed I'll post it.  This is just a prototype as I had an old tote that already had a couple holes in it to play with I've been playing with while waiting on the rest of the parts.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: tree frog's notes on pans [Re: tree frog]
    #29439004 -

I'm just going to level with yall.  I started a patreon that I'm not sharing on here presently due to some harassment.  But...  I also recognize that my patreon could go poof tomorrow.  So, really what this thread is is posterity.  And if anyone is curious why my tone in the posts is more educational and less conversational, it's because much of this was written for a different audience.

Also, I'm trying to use patreon to funnel in more new members :grin:  Dropping links back here often.

Anyway, going to transfer a few more writeups this morning.  And Merry Christmas everyone!


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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