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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: sudly]
    #29366415 -

Beautiful.


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: sudly] * 1
    #29366552 -

sudly said:
There is something quietly powerful in simply listening, in offering space without the need to fix, analyse, or steer. Validation can be an act of respect, a way of saying, I hear you, and your experience matters.


"At night, when we are in bed; for then the mind is fully relaxed, and the power of judgment quite unequal to its duties; but imagination is still awake. Night gives a black look to everything, whatever it may be. This is why our thoughts, just before we go to sleep, or as we lie awake through the hours of the night, are usually such confusions and perversions of facts as dreams themselves; and when our thoughts at that time are concentrated upon our own concerns, they are generally as black and monstrous as possible." AS

"Towards evening, when our powers of thought and judgment are relaxed, — at the hour, as it were, of subjective darkness, — the intellect becomes tired, easily confused, and unable to get at the bottom of things; and if, in that state, we meditate on matters of personal interest to ourselves, they soon assume a dangerous and terrifying aspect." AS

"Overconfident children may not be as motivated to learn or improve because they already believe they are competent, even when they are not."

"Risk-Taking: Overconfidence can lead to poor decision-making, as children may take unnecessary risks or set unrealistic goals."

When I was 20 years old, still a child in some ways, I made it my mission to grow psilocybin mushrooms and provide the tools for shamanic ecstasy. I under estimated the ill-will of the people around me. I accumulated hurts from my exchanges with people.  My own laziness was a factor in this, a part of me just wanted to relax and live in ecstatic bliss, journeying out in the mind, leaving my body. I believed what Terence McKenna was saying, and the resulting effects on my life was not good.   

"She swore that she loved me
No, never would she leave me
But the devil take that woman
Yeah, for you know she tricked me easy
Me, I like sleepin'
'Specially in my Molly's chamber
But here I am in prison
Here I am with a ball and chain"

Metallica - Whiskey in the jar:



The tyrant tormented by bad dreams, gloomy forebodings, and inner fears is a typical figure. Outwardly ruthless, harsh, and unapproachable, he jumps inwardly at every shadow, is at the mercy of every mood, as though he were the feeblest and most impressionable of men. Thus his anima contains all those fallible human qualities his persona lacks. If the persona is intellectual, the anima will certainly be sentimental. [“Definitions,” CW 6, par. 804.]

Why Worry, Dire Straits: (Remastered 1996):


The dream is a little hidden door in the innermost and most secret recesses With Faustian indignation my patient will cry out: This witch’s quackery disgusts my soul!
Is this your promise then, that I be healed
By crooked counsel in this crazy hole,
In truth by some decrepit dame revealed?
Cannot you brew an ichor of your own?

To which I shall reply:

“Haven’t you tried one remedy after another? Haven’t you seen for yourself that all your efforts have only led you round in a circle, back to the confusion of your present life? So where will you get that other point of view from, if it cannot be found anywhere in your world?”

Here Mephistopheles murmurs approvingly,

“That’s where the witch comes in,”

thus giving his own devilish twist to Nature’s secret and perverting the truth that the dream is an inner vision,

“mysterious still in open light of day.”

The dream is a little hidden door in the innermost and most secret recesses of the soul, opening into that cosmic night which was psyche long before there was any ego-consciousness, and which will remain psyche no matter how far our ego-consciousness extends. For all ego-consciousness is isolated; because it separates and discriminates, it knows only particulars, and it sees only those that can be related to the ego. Its essence is limitation, even though it reach to the farthest nebulae among the stars. All consciousness separates; but in dreams we put on the likeness of that more universal, truer, more eternal man dwelling in the darkness of primordial night. There he is still the whole, and the whole is in him, indistinguishable from nature and bare of all ego-hood. ~Carl Jung, CW 10, Para 304

Final thoughts:

We can't allow ourselves to be tyrannical. There must be a way to collapse the tyrant within and escape the tyrant without.

“It's all about love. Making someone else's existence just a little easier... nothing else matters. I know this now.”
― Terence McKenna

Edited by Cory Duchesne (10/07/25 06:44 AM)

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #29366576 -

carl jung is overly romantic about religious constructs


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Cory Duchesne] * 1
    #29366582 -

I like Metallica and they've done good covers but I prefer the Think Lizzy version of Whiskey in the Jar.



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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Rahz]
    #29368050 -

"This is the heritage of all the bad little boys of the eighteenth century: Nietzsche, and Darwin, and Hegel, and Schopenhauer — these clowns were on a bad trip, and they were loud about it. And what they give us is a universe devoid of soul. Man looms larger and larger—notice the gender slant — Man looms larger and larger in the picture. And what this ushers into is fascism. Pure and simple."
A Psychedelic Point of View, Terence McKenna

Dire Straits - Single Handed Sailor (Lyrics) - Communique (1979):


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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Cory Duchesne] * 2
    #29368450 -

I might be wrong but isn't Shoepenhauer's disillusionment a result of deviancy from the two classical mating models for a new (enlightened) third model which is just lame? A de facto straw man argument?

Model one was tournament sex: RM Sapolsky presents humans in physical combat for the harem, evidenced by physically larger males, smaller females, and all of the vestigial tournament instincts we still have.

Model two was arranged monogamy, which worked well in tribalism and was promulgated by influential cultures.

It seems to me that the man who is actually managing and impregnating a harem (and engaging in frequent combat violence to protect his 200 children) will not have time to whine about disillusionment. Likewise the man who was assigned a wife in his youth and pressured to stay with her will not feel it either.

Shopenhauer's "insight" is not unlike stomping on puppies and then saying one doesn't like puppies anymore because they are made of blood and guts. Not so much an insight as a result of perverting the proper treatment of puppies. That is to say Shopenhauer's disillusionment is merely a criticism of casual dating, which is a perversion of the original models for raising a human family. Perhaps his disgust was shaped to ultimately steer society back towards a sex model that is more successful at raising children.


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"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #29368470 -

The Kibbutz is another model of raising children in a kind of corporation nursery and school sometimes with a farm.

I have not been attracted to that, as it is like being married to 200 people with whom sex is unlikely and occasional, and everyone is watching everyone else.

Still that seems to be where society is headed on a much larger scale -> individuals living in pairs or not, and society picking up the slack by providing childcare, education, and assigning tasks to individuals; while an inheritance model buffers the wealthy in a commercial fantasy of second homes, golf clubs, yachts, and fortress villas.

The model has to fit in amusements like sports, rock concerts and extravagant weddings with big elephants and cupolas with abundant tables of sweets and savory delicacies - for individuals, couples, and children.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29368492 -

Quote:
It seems to me that the man who is actually managing and impregnating a harem (and engaging in frequent combat violence to protect his 200 children) will not have time to whine about disillusionment.


Engaging in frequent combat violence is a form of whining. It's as you say, crushing puppies and then complaining one doesn't like crushed puppies. I think the man with a harem does generate violence, he also attracts thieves, and the thief who steals a beer from the master, the master, noticing his beer is missing, does get a dose of disillusionment, and he deals with that disillusionment by breaking down the thief with various forms of violence. A thief is not whining, he's enjoying himself. It's only when the master of a harem notices his beer is missing that he whines in disillusionment (who took my beer?), with his fist, sword or gun.

I'm not defending Schopenhauer, but I certainly see Schopenhauer as a greater man than someone who impregnates a harem. 

"Lust and greed are more gullible than innocence." Mason Cooley

Peace is a necessity, we need peace like we need food, and there's nothing peaceful about a man managing and impregnating a harem of women. The women of such a harem and her children will be shunned by the rest of society, and the man engaging in violence to protect himself is really just whining with his gun, eliminating the offended with greater offense.

When you set that kind of standard, "managing harems", it's really a competition to see who can be the most offensive. It's greater offenders wiping out lesser offenders. Violence is just a very efficient form of whining.

Edited by Cory Duchesne (10/09/25 09:15 AM)

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #29368691 -

the behaviors are just habits,
we want to have good habits, to repeat and teach good behaviors.
we want the right to keep finding better habits and behaviors.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29369372 -

The most harmful thing someone can do is produce a child that he or she is not prepared to take care of. It's far more harmful than smoking marijuana, on other people.  A man's anti-social wishes should be restrained by a wish to please his friends, or to win the respect of his community, or to be able to contemplate himself without disgust. But if he has no such wish to restrain himself, the mere abstract concepts of morality will not keep him straight.

This is where Catholicism has something to say that I can relate to. Catholicism describes this world is a "vale of tears" and that we shouldn't expect too much happiness. Sounds about right. Freedom implies a freedom to be unhappy, and that unhappiness should not be pathologized or labeled as mental illness. 

A catholic monogamous marriage between a couple where both partners are supported by their friends, family and community IS the preparation ground for bringing new life into this world.  In that sense, I can relate to Catholicism.

For myself, being without children and not married, Zen Buddhism is more appealing. But if I were to get married, I would probably be catholic, since it's about preparation and support for the project of having a family.

As for polygamy and harems.... uh, complete lunacy and greed, in my view. Sounds like the instincts and impulses are not restrained.

Children are everybody's problem. In many cases, it's just an unplanned pregnancy out of wedlock, a teenage pregnancy, and the couple splits from each other for various reasons. In other words, a lack of preparation and executive function. 

"Turning children from a liability into an asset has fundamentally reshaped all of society in exactly the wrong direction.  Children are not an asset. You shouldn't be able to make money by having children. Children are a cost, financially, they are a liability. Wonderful creatures, but a financial liability, which means someone has to pay for it. But if you force people to pay for it though the state (social assistance, welfare) then children are turned from a liability which requires a provider into an asset, which promotes the unhealthy into having extra children for the sake of income. If there is a pregnancy out of wedlock without a provider then you kind of hold society hostage. A ticking time bomb goes of for the next 60 years in society." Paraphrased from SM

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29369381 -

Cory Duchesne said:
The women of such a harem and her children will be shunned by the rest of society, and the man engaging in violence to protect himself is really just whining with his gun, eliminating the offended with greater offense.



The time that mankind survived as a tournament species may have been from 1 million years ago to until the first civilizations, before guns or societal norms.

This combat violence was probably an unconscious, testosterone-induced instinctive rage. Its the reason men still enjoy watching sports today. Vestiges of a bygone time that began before the stone age. The image I get is of animals in nature that are tournament species fighting (think of wild rams butting heads or bull elk locking horns). 

redgreenvines said:
...society picking up the slack by providing childcare, education, and assigning tasks to individuals; while an inheritance model buffers the wealthy in a commercial fantasy of second homes, golf clubs, yachts, and fortress villas.



Society and civilization are relatively new things on an evolutionary time scale. Fascinating to think of how this will shape human morphology 100,000 years from now.

Maybe we are in for even more competition to get the fortress villas and yachts because they establish a male hierarchy while avoiding violence, which is more efficient for the gene pool.

Maybe we aren't interested in reproduction and we are headed for a degraded gene pool and societal collapse a la Calhoun's rat utopia... and the survival of our species will depend upon people who today live in trailers, shanties, and other feral humans outside the reach of CNN and public radio.

Maybe we will enter into a new age where corporate-controlled AI openly controls the government and steers society through breeding programs measured in centuries, or where gene therapy can allow us to improve our species.

I think I'd like to get gene therapy for super-big muscles.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #29369462 -

My priority at the moment is better executive function, better emotional regulation, better frontal cortex development, better delay of gratification, better ability to plan for the future, better problem solving ability, things like that. A better brain would come first, and then other physical attributes like height, muscles and genitalia-size would either be seen as spam, trivial or important. The idea that we can edit our genes to modify our existing physical form through gene therapy is beyond my perception and thinking. I don't believe that that kind of service is available now. Anyone who says you can edit the body's genes to get more muscle mass is probably selling you spam, and such ideas circulate at a cheap, low cost, even free. Spam promises you physical enhancement.

Nowadays, a doctor will give you a medical cannabis prescription card while cynically remarking "hindbrain only" as you struggle to remember where you put your prescription receipt while you walk out his office door.

I wouldn't know where to begin other than make the frontal cortex and executive function and memory the priority. I simply don't understand totipotency or totipotent cells or genetics. It requires a robust and solid frontal cortex to think robust frontal cortex thoughts. One bit of success leads to another bit of success, whereas, failure tends to create more failure. Man's passion is laziness, he gets lost in pipe dreams. 

The brain or consciousness functions along the groove of admiration or envy, gratitude or resentment.

If we can admire, be grateful and be proud of things, we're in good shape. If we're envious, resentful and ashamed of what we see, then we're experiencing some significant loss of consciousness.

We should be proud of, admire and be grateful for our efforts and success at moving our culture away from greed, violence, polygamy and harems. 



"We are using the neurons, our identity, to constantly maintain our identity. whether you are awake, asleep, or dreaming, this process is carried on. But, it is wearing you out.  That is why I say the tragedy that is facing mankind is not AIDS or cancer, but Alzheimer's disease." - U.G.

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #29369562 -

Cory Duchesne said:
....
I wouldn't know where to begin other than make the frontal cortex and executive function and memory the priority. I simply don't understand totipotency or totipotent cells or genetics. It requires a robust and solid frontal cortex to think robust frontal cortex thoughts. One bit of success leads to another bit of success, whereas, failure tends to create more failure. Man's passion is laziness, he gets lost in pipe dreams. 
....


Brain scientists at this time do not have a good enough understanding of what the brain does or how to begin tinkering with the genetics of brain cells.
Most of the development of the brain is prenatal, and reverting to that state for an alteration in developmental connectivity is  unthinkable, as it would wipe away everything learned.

Frontal cortex is unique in that it does not have primary sensory inputs from thalamus, nor does it have motor outputs other than activation feeds to the Hypothalamus to dampen perceptive feeds, enabling conditioned focus. Bigger Frontal or more frontal neurons will not enable more conditioned (trained) focus than less frontal neurons - the training of focus is about time spent training, as in Meditation, and/ or T'ai Chi and several other "in the moment skills". It's about learning and practicing to suspend perceptive reflexes instead of riding through their ramified loops. This is not a built-in ability, it is a capacity we all equally may train to function regardless of brain size or shape.

Delayed gratification is one representation of paused perceptive reflexes.

Think of it as being present, in contact with the earth, and breathing into the moment - aware of up to 10 different reflections per second arising and passing without flowering while the contact and breathing continue.

This is never a result of a genetic or drug hack - the ability to focus is a conditioned reflex (in frontal cortex) that suspends other conditioned reflexes in favor of the task at hand.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #29369916 -

Cory Duchesne said:
...other physical attributes like height, muscles and genitalia-size would either be seen as spam, trivial or important. The idea that we can edit our genes to modify our existing physical form through gene therapy is beyond my perception and thinking. I don't believe that that kind of service is available now.
...
The brain or consciousness functions along the groove of admiration or envy, gratitude or resentment.
...
We should be proud of, admire and be grateful for our efforts and success at moving our culture away from greed, violence, polygamy and harems.

 

Follistatin gene therapy will give us all huge muscles and long life*. 

https://fortune.com/2023/12/21/bryan-johnson-human-guinea-pig-unproven-tests-reprogram-human-genes-follistatin-roatan-island-honduras/

Profound thoughts on envy there. Envy is one of those difficult morality issues because it has to do with the heart, as opposed to qualifiable actions that are outwardly apparent.

It seems taboo to talk about any inner morality vices because everyone has them. People would rather point at someone else's theft than their own greed, or point at a murder than introspect on hatred, or adultery/polygamy than lust, toxic narcissism than introspect on pride, et cetera.

*Long ding-a-ling not included.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29369919 -

redgreenvines said:
Delayed gratification is one representation of paused perceptive reflexes.



That's another interesting inverse relationship. I worked with a coach for a few years to try to turn delayed gratification into reflexes. "Automaticity" she called it.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #29370015 -

whatever becomes familiar is part of your reflex matrix


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: redgreenvines]
    #29370159 -

I'm coping with the unfamiliar .... or having something that has become familiar to me, disrupted, destroyed or undone by forces/people out of my control.

I had a garden in my backyard, and was mulching the soil with hay, straw and leaves. The mulch was added to the soil, and everything was in order, I was hopeful to build upon that plot of soil. It was enchanting. Then the maintenance workers came and raked off all the mulch. 

It's a battle of my familiarity up against someone else's familiarity.

To get a small bit of success gardening has proven challenging. Here's a picture of my garden before it become overgrown with black locust trees:

The key is to get a steady import of hay mulch to cover over the soil. But it's so unfamiliar and unaccepted by people, they just actively work to destroy the small bit of hope or joy that I have. 

That's why Schopenhauer's pessimism is comforting to people. The pessimism is a familiarity, the familiarity: pessimism.


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Re: Arthur Schopenhauer and Men Seeing thru the Illusion of Sex [Re: Cory Duchesne] * 1
    #29370339 -

you have to put a sign up in the area you are cultivating

like
Quote:
  • No Dogs
  • Mulching in progress
  • Do not mess with this garden
.




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