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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: Bigworm] * 2
    #29018317 -

No idea about how long the tea crystals last yet. Nor how they will do in gummies, but I hope to find out next week if I can whip up a batch.

I treated the tea crystals like dried mush. So for a standard test, use 0.15 grams in the extraction fluid and carry on as normal. Pulling the liquid from the extraction mix through the filter was pretty difficult because the rehydrated crystals made the liquid sticky. But with a bit of patience I was able to pull a sample. That may not be as big of an issue with regular fruits. My test was from myceliated grains which usually make a more sticky tea. Next round of tests will be back to the GT powder, so I expect to have better recommendations after that.

P.S. The reading was at the top of the colorimeter's ability to read, so doing a half weight sample and doubling the result would probably be more readable with the standard tests.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29018903 -

Cool when I go to make gummies I'll make to make crystals a couple days ahead of time and test them. I'll follow your recommendation about half the amount and double the results. I usually like to do that with dried fruit as well. Thanks for replying!


--------------------
Pastywhyte’s Ez dialed monotubs
My Miraculix Potency Test Results
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery
My Museum
REV'S Tested: Dehydration temperature vs potency





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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: Bigworm]
    #29029113 -

:creepylurker:


--------------------
Thank your postal workers when you see them. None of this would be possible without them.

Necessity is the mother of invention

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: EniQma]
    #29036127 -

I searched but couldn't find where anyone has tried pressure cooking fruits for tea making.

Anyone have any data or guesses about that?

Maybe add that to the list of tests?


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: LadysKnight]
    #29036428 -

LadysKnight said:
I searched but couldn't find where anyone has tried pressure cooking fruits for tea making.

Anyone have any data or guesses about that?

Maybe add that to the list of tests?


I was thinking about this but for cannaoil. Wonder if either would work :philososloth:

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: Nimpo]
    #29036461 -

Would pressure cooking cause the temp to go high enough to degrade/destroy the actives?


--------------------
Pastywhyte’s Ez dialed monotubs
My Miraculix Potency Test Results
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery
My Museum
REV'S Tested: Dehydration temperature vs potency





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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: Bigworm]
    #29036490 -

I thought oxidation was the only way the actives degrade.


--------------------
Thank your postal workers when you see them. None of this would be possible without them.

Necessity is the mother of invention

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: LadysKnight] * 2
    #29036905 -

LadysKnight said:
I searched but couldn't find where anyone has tried pressure cooking fruits for tea making.

Anyone have any data or guesses about that?

Maybe add that to the list of tests?


Great minds, sir. I have pc vs steep testing planned for next week if the next shipment of QTests arrive in time. Just ordered 50 more bulk tests as I am getting low again.

Then it is acidification vs h2o only using the winner of the steep vs pc.

I liked the results of using the pc for myceliated grain, but I didn't do any control testing on the trial run, and mixed up the result batches, so I couldn't do a good final results comparison. So that will also be a part of the pc vs steep testing next week.

If anyone has a line on shallow condiment cups please let me know. The ones I ordered are a little tall for my dehydrator trays. They work and I can redneck engineer a solution, but shorter cups would sure save a lot of mucking about.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: ReverendMyc] * 2
    #29037013 -

Exciting time to be alive!
Glad to hear you have it under control Rev.
:popcorn:


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: LadysKnight] * 11
    #29045364 -

Auto-Summary
The author conducted an experiment comparing tea potency extracted through steeping and pressure cooking (PC) methods. They used the same amount of Golden Teacher cubensis powder and water for both methods, dehydrating the resulting tea and dregs to measure potency and active ingredient content. The steeping method yielded significantly more potent tea, with approximately 38% less potency with each successive decoction compared to the PC method, which only showed a 29% reduction. The steeped tea contained over 400mg of actives, while the PC tea contained just over 325mg. The experiment concluded that the steeping method was more effective at extracting actives, despite the PC method achieving higher temperatures.

PC vs Steep
Here is my latest experiment in tea potency. I wanted to compare steeped tea to tea prepared in the PC (or in my case an Instant Pot). After the unexpected results from the steep vs simmer teas, I hypothesized that it was the difference in water volume rather than the difference in temperature that caused the steep to be more effective at transferring the actives to the solution. If that is true, then I thought that preparing the tea in an IP (instant pot) should produce more potent tea because it achieves a higher temperature while minimizing any water loss during the transfer stage. If the temperature is actually causing a reduction in potency when the tea is boiled it should also show up in these results as lower PCed tea potency.

To test this hypothesis I will run two sets of three decoctions. One set of decoctions will be done on the stove top by bringing a set volume of water and amount of mush to a boil and then reducing heat to allow it to steep for a set time. For the other set of decoctions, I will use the same volumes of water and active material in the IP for the same amount of time. Then each decoction will be labeled and evaporated in a dehydrator until completely dry, weighed, and tested for potency. Using the final weight and potency I will determine which method extracted the most actives. Additionally, I will also dry, weigh and test the dregs of both methods after the final decoction to determine how much active materials still remain in the dregs.

For this test I used 25 grams of the same Golden Teacher cubensis powder from previous tests and 500 ml water for each decoction. To limit the variables as much as possible, I used a quart Ball jar with a modified lid for both the pc cycles and the steep in a double boil bath.

The extra jars in the IP are just there to keep the tea jar from falling over in the cycle. (also apologies for the switching of tenses, I am writing this as I go and so different parts are being written at different stages of the process)

After each decoction I used a french press to extract the tea into condiment cups on dehydrator trays for drying. Each decoction got its owns tray and a cup was labeled to make sure to keep them straight. After the final decoction I also placed the dregs from the teas into condiment cups in the dehydrator. After 24 hours, most of the tea was dehydrated, however there were some sticky spots so I gave them another 16 hours.

The condiment cups are just a little to tall for my dehydrator trays, so I used a thermal shirt to cover the gaps. Silly but effective.


left to right decoction 1, 2, & 3 with dregs from PC. 2nd picture is the same for the steep. And I am off to start scraping cups now.

Resulting Active Instant Teatm from the tea dehydration cycles and some dregs.

As I expected after my first try at this, the amount of dried tea dropped off significantly with each successive decoction. This time I kept them separate so I could compare them and it looks like you get approximately 72% less with each decoction.
Static is a real problem for getting all of the light flakes especially in the later decoctions. If I weren't keeping it all separate for testing, I would just keep reusing the same condiment cups so there would be thicker tea residue to work with. That is much easier to handle than the thin flakes that want to stick to everything except the receiving container.

Time to do some potency testing now.

Before and after the hot water bath. I did the tea samples at half the concentration based on the past results. Some were above the colorimeter's ability to read before. The dregs are at full strength because I expect them to be well within the range of the colorimeter based on past trials.




Whelp, wrong again. I was pretty confident that the PC would be more efficient but the data says it is not. The difference is not that significant, but it is certainly not worth the extra work to get slightly less good results.

Reading the chart.
  • The first decoction of each yielded a bit over 8.5 grams of dehydrated tea but the steep tested over 38% more potent.
  • The second decoction of each yielded 29% and 27% of the first decoction amount at under 2.5 grams each. The potency dropped off for both to a similar level.
  • The third decoction yield was again 29% of the second decoction and the potency continued to decline.
  • The combined yield weighed close to 12 grams for both and over 400mg of actives in the dehydrated steeped tea versus a little over 325mg actives in the combined PCed tea.
  • The total actives remaining in the dregs were 47mg and 37mg meaning that nearly 90% of the actives were extracted in the three decoctions and most of that came in the first decoction.


I am actually quite pleased with this result, even if they did surprise me some.

That is all I have for today. Looking at trying acidification next.

Okay, one more little tidbit that I was thinking of keeping to my self, but that is just not my style. I wonder how much ground up Active Instant Teatm will fit into a 00 capsule?

Edit: to update the graph with percents of actives extracted with each decoction and percent left in dregs.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

Edited by ReverendMyc (12/04/24 06:50 PM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29045415 -

Nicely done Rev, thanks for the time, effort and $ you are putting into this!


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Low Prep the World! (agar plates)
Low Prep the World! (grain prep)
Trashcan FC
Acidulated extraction gummies and drops
Drying agar and grains using parchment paper
:leaf:Cleaning your bubble hash bags


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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: ReverendMyc] * 1
    #29045419 -

Thanks for putting in the work Rev, very interesting, i definitely appreciate it, and as always, you are the man.

Edit: good science creates more questions than it answers. So I'm left wondering, if there is a gradient to the extraction that decreases at some level of heat, and is greater at a lower level of heat, there must be a sweet spot, and is it below the control?? Just a thought. Thanks again for your efforts.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

Edited by LadysKnight (12/04/24 07:01 PM)

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: LadysKnight]
    #29045425 -

all these tests are done with ground/powdered mushrooms? have u done any experiments of ground shrooms vs non/semi ground?

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: LadysKnight] * 2
    #29045470 -

Thanks for the kind words.

LadysKnight said:
... good science creates more questions than it answers. So I'm left wondering, if there is a gradient to the extraction that decreases at some level of heat, and is greater at a lower level of heat, there must be a sweet spot, and is it below the control?? Just a thought. Thanks again for your efforts.


To be fair, the quantities needed for the tests with these concentrates are so small that I have difficulties getting accurate weights. I do use calibration weights throughout the process, but the slightest shift in air currents can move the scale enough to be off by 4 to 8 percent pretty easily. 0.025 grams it tricky to achieve even with the scale that they recommend using. So I would want more tests to confirm the difference before trying to spending too much time on the whys and wherefores. The fact that the PC did not perform better and requires far more effort coupled with the final efficiency for both being nearly equal is good enough for me to stick with the steep instead.


macdaddy01 said:
all these tests are done with ground/powdered mushrooms? have u done any experiments of ground shrooms vs non/semi ground?


Most of the tests in this thread use powdered mush, but I have performed many with materials crushed in a mortar and pestle as well. There has been no significant difference. The instructions for the test kits require that the testing material be at least crushed up for dried materials.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29045610 -

Rev blinded me with science!

:shockhawk:


--------------------


An hour and a half later, I was beginning to feel definite effects
Subjective Effect Index: comprehensive map of all potential psychoactive experiences

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #29045619 -

Awesome test, thanks for running it Rev! Interesting results :happyclaps:

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: Nimpo]
    #29052069 -

:threadmonitor:


--------------------
LAGM 2.024



The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery | Pastywhyte’s Ez dialed monotubs | Clean spawn checklist for the new grower | How I do Rye Berry Prep | Frank's Simple Coir/Verm Tek | Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: mycosispeon]
    #29052223 -

Mein gott that latest test.

I do have a question, rev. How the heck do you stomach the odor of making so much shroom tea? I swear I can't even smell this shit anymore without gagging, I wear a mask when preparing now lol


--------------------
Endlessly endorsing empathy empirically energizing existence™

~Always practice radical kindness~
R.I.P. Betty Boop, greatest mother to ever do it.

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: QuantumZ00] * 5
    #29052288 -

LOL. Mostly outside or in the garage. And this last time I did it in jars with modified lids. It helps a little but not totally.

My wife tolerates it because she likes gummies.
My kid complains but not much since he don't pay rent.:hehehe:


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Top Tea Prep method test per dregs potency testing [Re: ReverendMyc] * 2
    #29064514 -

Great work Rev! Truly, bravo :kaneclap:


My 2 cents, if I may...

If I'm interpreting your data correctly, to get the "Percent Extracted" number on the far right of your chart, it looks like you took the combined amount of actives extracted from the 3 decoctions as a percentage of the total amount you extracted (including the amount extracted from the dregs post-decoctions).




I believe the method used is only giving you the proportion of actives obtained from the decoctions in relation to the amount extracted from the dregs after the fact, but this is not truly representative of the % of actives extracted from the source material. Using the amount of actives remaining in the dregs as a basis for the total amount extracted from what was available does not take into account other possibilities for the actives, such as degredation during the extraction process. As such, 406mg actives extracted from the steep and 328mg actives from the PC should not result in the roughly same percentage extracted as shown in your chart (89.6% vs. 89.8%).

To get the true "Percent Extracted," you would have to set aside some of the dregs from the same (well-blended) source that you intend to use in your experiment and put it through its own Q-test. That way you will know the total amount of actives available for (potential) extraction from the source material, and you can compare that to the amount of actives you were able to extract through your various extraction methods (and express that as a percentage). Then when you test the amount of actives in the remaining dregs afterwards you can get a true understanding of effciency vs. loss with each method.

Just something to consider for future experiments :smile:

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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