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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #28666098 -

break em out boi


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Need a lift?

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: BeefExtreme] * 1
    #28666150 -

For science!


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And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: BeefExtreme] * 2
    #28666207 -

The problem with a lot of this thread is that a lot of this stuff has never been rigorously tested. I mean, that applies to old stuff as much as new stuff, but to say "X is superior to Y" would require evidence that we don't actually have, in most cases.

Also it's not a matter of total success or total failure, there is a lot of grey area in a lot of this stuff, even when comparing things.

Anyway, if something works, don't be so quick to shoot it down.

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: nooneman] * 5
    #28666340 -

i think we could say the say thing.  if what we do is yeilding canopies again and again, why deviate from convention?  we arent looking for a cure for cancer here.  We dont have a peer reviewed scientific process.  This is a community thats trying (for free) to help people grow mushrooms.  We arent here to dither.


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Need a lift?

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: BeefExtreme] * 4
    #28666390 -

I think that's a good take for this subforum in particular.  People new to growing mushrooms need information that's going to work 90% of the time with the minimal amount of bullshit and investment.  And we have places like AM where people can start to ask questions like why does this work and look at things a bit deeper if they want.

I remember when my first tubs went green after months of work I was very discouraged.  I was struggling with mental health stuff and didn't have much trust for the medical establishment at the time.  So, growing offered me hope at a dark time in my life.

I can't say I got bad advice, I'm sure I fucked up my sterile technique and my second grow pulled an ounce of B+ first flush out of a shoebox and nearly a full canopy from MS (bless my favorite sponsor for all his hard work with domestication).

I also remember reading about overlay in ten year old threads and thinking I need to scratch my sub to get it to fruit.  Thankfully, I asked and someone said don't.

But a thread like this would have given me a quick way to cross-reference old posts with modern techniques.

I think there's room for experimenting and figuring out what works and why, and there's lots of us doing that on these boards.  And I'm sure as we do, Beef will keep updating threads like this so new people can have that information at their fingertips.

the tl;dr, is signal to noise ratio is important especially for new people who don't know the signal


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And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: nooneman] * 4
    #28666470 -

nooneman said:
The problem with a lot of this thread is that a lot of this stuff has never been rigorously tested.

Anyway, if something works, don't be so quick to shoot it down.


Well, I know what's been vigorously tested-by me. Wasting countless hours and dollars buying and prepping shit that I didn't need. Following inherently flawed procedures. Everything always "worked." I always did pretty well harvest-wise at the end of the day. But there were also tremendous wastes of time and resources, which only happened because I read some advice on here and followed it. Advice that I still see people treating like it's the state-of-the-art.

Everyone here is perpetually tasked with trying to decide how much stock to put in some shit a stranger on the internet is saying.

I'm just trying to help shut down and restore a few gypsum mines here.


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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: mushboy]
    #28667872 -

mushboy said:
No refrigeration but I’ve only stored for a year or so. I got some from almost 3yrs ago I should break em out.


Please do. I have not had much success with dried grains yet. Could be species dependent or maybe environmental. Maybe there is a limit on how dry they can get before failure and mine get too dry in my desert atmosphere.

My method has just been to close the modified lid on near empty quart jars at spawn. Let them dry on a shelf for a couple of months then transfer to cryo tubes. So far after a year plus, nothing on agar plates. Not even bacteria. I have switched to sterile water li for long term storage now and have 100% success rate with it to date. But dried grain would be a nice backup method if I could rely on it. Also easier to ship and share.


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Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #28674674 -

I'm new to this hobby. When you say pasterizing coir is a myth, does that mean I can literally just add water and mix my spawn with it?

Sorry if it's a noob question, I have seen bucket tek and boiling water in coir overnight everywhere.

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Big Sack Tiny D] * 2
    #28674894 -



:lookatit:


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Question everything, it's very responsive.
culture storage

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Big Sack Tiny D]
    #28675167 -

Big Sack Tiny D said:
I'm new to this hobby. When you say pasterizing coir is a myth, does that mean I can literally just add water and mix my spawn with it?

Sorry if it's a noob question, I have seen bucket tek and boiling water in coir overnight everywhere.


Yes. Coir is tough and very low in nutrients, and we basically consider it to be almost inert. So when using straight coir, no pasteurization is needed.

Some people just add water. I'm among those who still boil the water first, and I put the bucket in a cooler for a couple days. I'm still slightly superstitious about not having any sort of heat treatment for pathogens and whatnot, but the main reason I do it is because it allows me to keep my coir-water ratio on the dry side. The hot water just circulates through the bucket better,as it flows to the bottom of the bucket, then steams up to the lid, then recondenses. I think it also helps soften up the coir a bit. But that's in my specific context of shredding three bricks of coir and stuffing them into one 5 gallon bucket with almost not enough water.

It's all a matter of dialing in your personal preferences with your particular coir source. But no, nothing is strictly necessary, in terms of temperature or additives.


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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Nichrome]
    #28675210 -

Nichrome said:


:lookatit:


Haha I do love this picture. However I can say with certainty that you do not need to pasteurize your coir. I never pasteurize my coir. I don’t even use boiling water to hydrate. Just hot tap water. HOWEVER, you need to be cautious of what coir you use. Some brands DO contain trich or other contaminants as you can see here ^ Don’t believe me? Having trich problems and don’t believe it’s your spawn? Take some of your hydrated coir to agar (credit for this idea to wavy edge.)

I was having trich problems and the last thing I wanted to do was start pasteurizing my cube substrate! FUCK THAT! I switched to coco bliss and trich now be gone! 😄 even pasteurizing bad coco coir at recommended times and even well above recommended times can still give you a trich outbreak. Wavy edge thoroughly tested this and his results speak for themselves.

Summary: Don’t pasteurize your coco coir. Get a reputable brand of coir that is tried and tested! I now use coco bliss but I know there’s other choices out there.

Also I’m a HUGE advocate for h202 which “has no place in this hobby.” I spray my tubs before spawning with h202 and my substrate buckets. 😂 can’t pull a clean print? Try h202. Can’t pull a clean piece of clone tissue? Try h202! 🤣 All of my clones go directly to nutrient agar. Fuck water agar. I’ll never make another water agar dish in my life.

Fight me on this.

Edit: you also don’t need to vent your pcs. They vent while they’re cooking.

Edited by PhenoDreamers (02/25/24 08:07 AM)

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 2
    #28676422 -

SupaThaRipper said:
Nichrome said:


:lookatit:


Haha I do love this picture. However I can say with certainty that you do not need to pasteurize your coir. I never pasteurize my coir. I don’t even use boiling water to hydrate. Just hot tap water. HOWEVER, you need to be cautious of what coir you use. Some brands DO contain trich or other contaminants as you can see here ^ Don’t believe me? Having trich problems and don’t believe it’s your spawn? Take some of your hydrated coir to agar (credit for this idea to wavy edge.)

I was having trich problems and the last thing I wanted to do was start pasteurizing my cube substrate! FUCK THAT! I switched to coco bliss and trich now be gone! 😄 even pasteurizing bad coco coir at recommended times and even well above recommended times can still give you a trich outbreak. Wavy edge thoroughly tested this and his results speak for themselves.

Summary: Don’t pasteurize your coco coir. Get a reputable brand of coir that is tried and tested! I now use coco bliss but I know there’s other choices out there.

Also I’m a HUGE advocate for h202 which “has no place in this hobby.” I spray my tubs before spawning with h202 and my substrate buckets. 😂 can’t pull a clean print? Try h202. Can’t pull a clean piece of clone tissue? Try h202! 🤣 All of my clones go directly to nutrient agar. Fuck water agar. I’ll never make another water agar dish in my life.

Fight me on this.

Edit: you also don’t need to vent your pcs. They vent while they’re cooking.


This is ripe with some of the most dumb ass shit I wouldn't have expected from you honestly. Lots of bad advice. H2O2, not venting, reputable brands, oof.

I'll pass on the instigation to fight about it. That wouldn't be fair to you. It would be like a grown man beating up a drunk little kid brandishing a Swiss army knife. :laugh2:


I love ya Sup but dang that was some charged ass cringe. You pointed it right at me too. :thumbdown:

:peacesign::fuckyoutoo:


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Question everything, it's very responsive.
culture storage

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Nichrome]
    #28676433 -

To be fair, I didn't get the vibe that he was pointing anything at you per se. I think he just used your post to explain his ideas/techniques about cultivation, correct or incorrect techniques, it doesn't matter. I do know that I get misunderstood very often, both online and offline, and it really is my fault, as 99% of people can't be wrong for getting mad at me, and I think I see something similar here, a simple misunderstanding 🤔


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Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Skropi]
    #28676439 -

Since this thread is in the subject of outdated and wrong information (much of which I believe is opinions), why is the cultivation section of this website so bad? I've always wondered that. All the info is wherever you can find it in the message forums, but I'm not aware of any organized library of methods and techniques. I would have thought thats what the cultivation section of the website would be for.

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: Nichrome] * 1
    #28676518 -

Have you tried any of them though or just keep doing what you were told?

Don’t vent your pc and see what happens? Think your grain will magically go bad? Think your pc will explode or something?

Kick a mushroom around in the floor and then spray it with h202 generously and let it sit for 5 minutes. Then clone some tissue from the OUTSIDE of the mushroom. Won’t have a problem I’m willing to bet.

I can send you the coco coir I use to get and the stuff I get now. Hell, I’ll personally mail you a brick of each! Then run them both unpasteurized.

These are cold hard FACTS

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 3
    #28676528 -

FlashBang said:
Since this thread is in the subject of outdated and wrong information (much of which I believe is opinions), why is the cultivation section of this website so bad? I've always wondered that. All the info is wherever you can find it in the message forums, but I'm not aware of any organized library of methods and techniques. I would have thought thats what the cultivation section of the website would be for.


It's not a section of a website run by some business or organization. It's a forum. A chit-chat room, if you will. And I for one don't have the time or interest to police every single thread, spew my opinions, and get involved in circular arguments. This is a place where anyone can register and run their mouth as much as they like, and the bar for getting banned is really quite high. You're reading through primary sources and individual conversations when you browse the forums, not a carefully curated guide to cultivation (or anything else). People really need to look at every post they see and consider, at a minimum, who wrote it and when. I personally think that what makes the Mush Cult forum not bad, and in fact great, is that there is so much information coming from so many different people. And that we have so many experienced cultiators chiming in. It’s just up to you to decide which parts/people to listen to. For a free road map on producing felony drugs, produced by volunteers who are all sticking their necks out, I'd say that's pretty damn good. Also, there are actually several threads fhat people created as guides of various sorts, along with other tutorial documents.

SupaThaRipper said:
Also I’m a HUGE advocate for h202 which “has no place in this hobby.”


I think most people are talking about spraying contamination in substrates with H2O2, alongside cutting out "bad" parts and salting trich. I can see how a strong enough H2O2 solution (not the 2% drugstore shit) could have some value in cloning work and the like, but I personally am trying to move away from sanitizing in general. I'm inspired by the accounts of people not using gloves or iso at all, and just relying on physics and fine motor skills.


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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 2
    #28676529 -

On the contrary, Nichrome.  this thread actually IS the place to instigate a fight. If not here, then where?  You have my blessing as long as we are fighting about the craft and not personal issues. 

Supa Ive always liked you too, but if what you want to do is kick hornets nests, im your hucklebearer. 

Its actually fine whatever youre doing.  Go ahead and never vent your pc, bathe in h202, sterilize your coir in the oven or whatever other cockamamie reddit techniques that seem to be presently working for you.

my solemn mission here has always remained consistent: to minimize white noise and direct new growers towards a system of conventional techniques and crush the source of dithering where I find it. 

youre dithering and your thesis is pseudoscientific at the very best and thats giving you a lot of credit.  Watch as  I climb naked from a bed of leaves and pull a fresh fruit from one of my tubs and place it directly into my mouth.  watch me spit it into my ungloved hand and split the fruit in twine before my ffu with my dick dangling as I create a clean clone plate with a hot, rusty xacto knife and no disanfectant whatsoever.

am i goint to recomend it?  am i going to add it to the HHG volume 3?! 

Friends of mine know that i truly am a benevolent and compassionate man but here in this thread of mine, I will always meet dithering white noise this way--as is my custom. 

have a great day.


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Need a lift?

Edited by BeefExtreme (02/26/24 05:51 AM)

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: BeefExtreme] * 1
    #28676534 -

The thing that gets me about most of the "you don't have to" statements in this thread, or the "how do you know XYZ doesn't help," is that I've usually done it both ways.

I've watched my contamination rates go down when I implemented venting. I also saw my jars just generally come out looking better, and my PC coming up to full pressure in a more consistent and reliable way.

I've sprayed not-yet-sporulating trich with H2O2 for some stupid reason.

I've held off on a project until I could get to the garden center and buy more gypsum. Until I said "fuck it," and realized life was a lot easier without it.

And that's all gotta be true for a lot of people here.

Yes, our minds are closed. Just like I'm very closed-minded about accepting bumps of shitty blow: because I know from ample experience that it will give me a sinus infection.


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Edited by B Traven (02/26/24 06:03 AM)

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 2
    #28676535 -

SupaThaRipper said:
Have you tried any of them though or just keep doing what you were told?

Don’t vent your pc and see what happens? Think your grain will magically go bad? Think your pc will explode or something?

Kick a mushroom around in the floor and then spray it with h202 generously and let it sit for 5 minutes. Then clone some tissue from the OUTSIDE of the mushroom. Won’t have a problem I’m willing to bet.

I can send you the coco coir I use to get and the stuff I get now. Hell, I’ll personally mail you a brick of each! Then run them both unpasteurized.

These are cold hard FACTS


I bet you think having major surgery all ya need is a little H2O2 on the wound and you'll be good to go then, right? H2O2 is great for cleaning shelves as it doesn't cause them to rust as badly as chlorine does but that is it's ONLY valid uses in the hobby is cleaning. It wont' save a grow. It's just as damaging to Mushroom Mycelium as it is to mold and any other contaminant.

As for venting PC, you can probably get away with it, if you're running longer times, but it's just stupid. Trying to save 10 minutes venting could possibly cost you 2 months of time. Not a good trade in my book.

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Re: outdated and obsolete information 2023 edition [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #28676538 -

First of all, let me say I respect both of you greatly. You’re both very smart and have plenty of experience on the subject.

However, bad coir is very much a now proven thing. I lost plenty of of tubs because of it. PLENTY, when time and time again, it was pushed on this forum that no such thing exists. It’s very much does. It was frustrating to keep thinking my grain was bad or my technique was bad when it wasn’t at all. Now come to say “fuck what the shroomery is saying, lemme switch coir brands” was all I had to do to fix the situation. Yeah it’s pretty upsetting. I’m recommending to all growers, if they’re having trich problems, look at their coir AND spawn/technique before anything.

Venting a pc, that’s minor, do it or don’t, doesn’t change anything. H202, don’t use it 🤷‍♂️ you certainly don’t need it but I sure as hell love it. Does fuck all for bacteria but thanks to Josex, I just laugh at bacteria now.

I may not be a TC but I sure as hell know what I’m talking about  on this subject and have plenty of pounding pushed out to prove it.

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