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Anonymous
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 Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? 
#280448 - 03/29/01 03:37 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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You could always use birdseed, in fact, I would recommend it.
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 Shroomzilla
enthusiast
Registered: 02/03/01
Posts: 177
Loc: Texas, home of the longho...
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Anonymous]
#281318 - 03/29/01 03:53 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've always wanted to try growing in that "water gel" additive made for house plants. A tsp of the powder will absorb some ungodly amt of water like a full gallon. You couldn?t heat sterilize it, so you?d have to pre cook the nutrient medium [BRF/rye/birdseed] and add that to saturated gel made up with good sterilized water. Should be super easy for the mycelia to grow through, not too unlike agar.
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 CLuB99
lost somewhere in time and space
 
Registered: 10/26/99
Posts: 1,316
Loc: my mind
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 Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Shroomzilla]
#281384 - 03/29/01 08:36 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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You can try with coconut fibers substituting verm in PF style cakes.....
it works VERY good....but better to use a mycelium solution as honey water or malt water......
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Shroomzilla
enthusiast
Registered: 02/03/01
Posts: 177
Loc: Texas, home of the longho...
Last seen: 22 years, 10 months
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: CLuB99]
#282457 - 03/30/01 04:52 PM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Coconut fiber does work quite well for some shrooms, and makes a killer casing layer....BUT.... it is much harder to find than vermiculite. About the only places that sell it are hydroponic stores. You can get it pretty cheap mail order, but shipping doubles the final price.
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Anonymous
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Shroomzilla]
#284056 - 04/02/01 08:49 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why change? Vermiculite has been used as the basis for potting soil for decades and that is all the pftek is, its potting soil for shrooms. Vermiculite and brf instead of soil.
If you can't find any verm., you can order it from the Spore Lab!
Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.sunshine.net/www/1700/sn1730
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Shroomzilla
enthusiast
Registered: 02/03/01
Posts: 177
Loc: Texas, home of the longho...
Last seen: 22 years, 10 months
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: ]
#285294 - 04/04/01 01:01 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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just because something works doesn't mean its the best. The meat packing industry still uses sodium nitrate to cure/preserve meats even though it is a known carcinogen. They haven't gotten of their asses and found a safer replacement because it works and its cheap.
At some point someone got up off their ass and discovered the BRF/Verm mix because they wanted someting better than what they had before. You need to stay a bit dissatisfied with the current state of things in order for progress to happen. Along with each batch of "plain vanilla", I cook up a couple of jars of something new just to see what happens. With enough trial and error [mostly error] you will eventually come up with a better formula.
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Azure
old hand
Registered: 12/31/98
Posts: 469
Loc: California, USA
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Shroomzilla]
#285964 - 04/05/01 12:23 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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synthetic vanilla or vanilla beans from Vanilla planifolia? heh Don't worry shroomzilla, we all know you don't grow...we all know that all of us don't grow:)...in a positive direction of some sort to confuse you
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CLuB99
lost somewhere in time and space
Registered: 10/26/99
Posts: 1,316
Loc: my mind
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Shroomzilla]
#287264 - 04/06/01 03:12 PM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree with shroomzilla
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Anonymous
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: CLuB99]
#288465 - 04/08/01 09:36 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Put it this way, if there was something better than vermiculite, I'm sure one of the worlds millions of horticulturists would have discovered it by now.
Any advancements will probably involve a new synthetic substance developed in some hi tech lab, not something thought up by a hand full of mushroom growers.
Sorry guys, but I just gotta laugh at some of these guys who think they are scientists. Or worse yet, people who call themselves 'mycologists' because they grow a magic mushroom. Yet they don't understand the basics of taxonomy.
Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.sunshine.net/www/1700/sn1730
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Shroomzilla
enthusiast
Registered: 02/03/01
Posts: 177
Loc: Texas, home of the longho...
Last seen: 22 years, 10 months
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: ]
#288488 - 04/08/01 10:44 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Come down off your soapbox CMM. Did I [or anyone else]claim to be the next Paul Stamets or Jonas Salk??? NO, I made a simple observation about a "universal" truth. Big changes or leaps in technology frequently come from that one person who has a passion for something and keeps tinkering to find "a better way".
Sometimes these changes pop out of a big lab, sometimes they come out of john doe's basement workshop. There are several polymers developed 15 years ago that work better than vermiculie by factors of ten. Why hasn't it killed the verm industry...cost...and until some patents run out and the stuff drops significantly in price it will not see widespride use.
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Sterile
mushroom lover
Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 2,541
Loc: under the Amanita
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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 Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Shroomzilla]
#289264 - 04/09/01 06:57 PM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thats right shroomzilla.....i totally agree with u.Experimentaition is the way to go! I bet u can get some good results from that "water gel"...try it and let us know how it goes! We dont need hi tech labs to be scientists, experimentaition appetite is all that is required!
YOU WANNA GET HIGH
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Is The Power Of The Mind
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 10,017
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF?
#294007 - 04/15/01 11:08 PM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey Kast  Can you be more specific for those who do not know much about poli-fil..... I'm just curious, I would love to try something new.
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Kast
old hand
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Thor]
#294731 - 04/16/01 09:02 PM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Poly-Fil is pillow stuffing that you can find at almost any craft store throughout the US and probably widely throughout the UK as well. It comes in large bags which will last a "lifetime" and cost around 1$-3$ depending on where it's bought.
I believe the "Poly" stands for polyester, and unlike cotton balls, it's non-absorbent. It wont hold any water at all. It has an odd texture too and is nearly impossible to compress. If you try squeezing it in your hand it tends to "slip" out the sides. But I found it quite easily to pack the top half-inch of a 1/2 pint with this stuff.
It's also sold under other brand names, but "Poly-Fil" is by far the most known and widely distributed.
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99 
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF?
#294914 - 04/17/01 01:51 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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Coir is a great substitute for both verm and peat in casings. It is acidic, but not so much so as peat.
I think that if you add a little lime to the coir, you will give vermiculite a run for it's money. And it is available in all towns in the form of bed-a-beast reptile litter. Check your PetSmart. It's cost is comparable to verm, but a little higher. However it can be ordered much cheaper online from garden/hydro shops.
The pH is about 6, so it won't take much lime.
A recipe for neutralizing the pH is about 7 liters moistened coir (one of the large bedabeast bricks) and 1/3 cup lime. Use this as a verm replacement in anything.
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi (also a registered mad scientist tm)
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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nononsense
enthusiast
Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 319
Last seen: 23 years, 1 month
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: Shroomzilla]
#294939 - 04/17/01 03:38 AM (23 years, 9 months ago) |
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In reply to:
The meat packing industry still uses sodium nitrate to cure/preserve meats even though it is a known carcinogen. They haven't gotten of their asses and found a safer replacement because it works and its cheap.
The amounts they use are not harming consumers. Besides the preventing spores to grow out it also colours the flesh nice red, so it looks fresh. Try to find something wich does those 2 things isn't that easy!!!!
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Email me at [email]nononsense@shroomery.org[/email
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darkangel932
newbie
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 23 years, 7 months
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: CLuB99]
#299333 - 04/22/01 10:17 PM (23 years, 8 months ago) |
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Stupid question, though I am inexperienced. Can/should vermiculite be sterilized before casing. If not, why does it not contaminate the mycelium?
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Anonymous
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: darkangel932]
#299575 - 04/23/01 08:24 AM (23 years, 8 months ago) |
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For one thing, nice healthy mycellium has stronger resistance against contams.
Secondly, do you have reason to believe your vermiculite is contaminated?
Just because it hasn't been sterilized does not automatically mean its contaminated.
Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.SporeLab.com
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darkangel932
newbie
Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 20
Last seen: 23 years, 7 months
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Re: Substitute something for vermiculite? in PF? [Re: ]
#300088 - 04/23/01 10:25 PM (23 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is true, I don't think bacteria can really grow on it. But mold spores, and endospores are surely on it unsterilized. How many of you don't sterilize your vermiculite
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