koods said:

Just stop with the bullshit. These countries were desperate to join because they know better than anyone what Russia is about. They want to be part of the economically and culturally successful west, and not part of a failed, poor and desperate Russian empire.

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koods said:

Stable Genius said:

SirTripAlot said:

Why did Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland,  Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia, Coratia, Albania, North Macedonia join the alliance? That's alot of countries.....why did they do this?

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U.S. influence most likely.

Shouldn't the question be why did NATO ask Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia to join?
What business was it of NATO's to seek an expansion after the Soviet Union broke up?

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Just stop with the bullshit.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Psilynut2 said:

You know how your always asking for examples of RT lies , well here you go .  They don't just lie they fabricate evidence too . Your welcome .

Quote:

RT claimed to have obtained internal Raytheon documents, and embedded in the piece three infographics, one marked with the “Raytheon Missile Systems” logo, that compare the technical characteristics of similar weapons systems, and argue they prove that Javelins are inferior.

Those claims are false. The infographics are not from Raytheon, and Ukraine has used Javelins to destroy Russia’s best tanks.

“Those documents were not created by our company, and the efficacy of the Javelin speaks for itself,” Mike Nachshen, senior director of international communications at Raytheon, told Polygraph.info when asked about the RT report.

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https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-russian-media-fabricate-leak-from-u-s-defense-contractor-to-tarnish-saint-javelin-/31985774.html

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Let's fact check the fact checkers.

First of all, a senior director of international communications at Raytheon said their Javelin is not inferior.  What do you expect someone in his position who's trying to sell $millions in Javelins to say???

He also said Ukraine has used Javelins to destroy Russian tanks.  But the RT article doesn't dispute that.

He says the claims in the infographics are false.  Yet they match the numbers on Wikipedia.

Most importantly, he says the efficacy of the Javelin speaks for itself.  Yes, it does:

Why are U.S. weapons failing in Ukraine?

Quote:

The United States has delivered about 7,000 Javelin anti-tank missile systems (ATGM) to Ukraine. At the same time, the fighting in Ukraine showed the insufficient effectiveness of this so-called man-portable weapon.

It was not a surprise for Ukrainians as one of the opposition members, just before the war, had stated that junk was being poured into the country, and (Ukrainian) Skif’s could perform better.

After the initial hype, even the Ukrainian propaganda department, which churns out ridiculous statistics, stopped talking about Javelins.

The U.S. assumption that the Javelins alone were enough to burn the Russian armour and military vehicles many times over was busted. Soon the U.S. started dolling out M777 155mm guns as their next doctrinal experiment.

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Javelin is considered ineffective in Ukraine

Quote:

Javelin anti-tank missile systems to Ukraine are not effective due to the complete lack of technical support, the APU soldiers are forced to translate instructions to them through an online translator, reports Washington Post.

The Javelin PTRC is much more difficult to use than other types of portable missiles. For the operation of the complex, batteries and an argon cooling agent are required, and a 258-page manual is included in the supply kit.

Ukrainian Javelin users cannot call call centers or a “hot line”, as American troops do if they themselves cannot eliminate the problems.

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You're welcome.

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Quote:

Hayword noted that Ukrainian Javelin users cannot call call centers or a “hot line”, as American troops do if they themselves cannot eliminate the problems.

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Stable Genius said:

some idiot fired one into a Z tank from 20mtrs away and wondered why it bounced off?  Funny as 😆

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Quote:

We couldn't even launch one. I think it's completely useless in an urban environment, as something always gets in the way,

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Well duh

Ukrainian officer says they couldn’t use them in the cities because buildings got in the way.

Russian propaganda says. The missiles are useless and ineffective and you can’t even call tech support.



Russia has also lost a shit ton of tanks to logistical and mechanical failures. Neither the will nor the skill. Ouch.

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

koods said:

Just stop with the bullshit. These countries were desperate to join because they know better than anyone what Russia is about. They want to be part of the economically and culturally successful west, and not part of a failed, poor and desperate Russian empire.

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I don't know if you've heard, but Russia is no longer a communist country; they are now capitalist.

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The tell here is the “culturally” caveat.

Because, even though we imposed our own economic ideology on Russia, they still aren’t as rich as the US because of their culture. In other words, it’s not that we toppled the USSR and then looted Russia with the help of a handful of oligarchs, it’s that the stupid Slavs just can’t figure it out because of some vestigial barbarism that’s held over since the days of Stalin (or something).

Stable Genius said:

koods said:

Stable Genius said:

SirTripAlot said:

Why did Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland,  Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia, Coratia, Albania, North Macedonia join the alliance? That's alot of countries.....why did they do this?

---

U.S. influence most likely.

Shouldn't the question be why did NATO ask Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia to join?
What business was it of NATO's to seek an expansion after the Soviet Union broke up?

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Just stop with the bullshit.

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Whats bullshit? Has Ukraine been asked to join NATO?

Do you think NATO was just hanging around with the door open and 7 countries decided to walk in all at once?

Of course they were asked to join.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

ballsalsa said:

Mass shelling of civilians: 'No biggie, those were legit military targets and if Ukraine doesn't like it they can always surrender.'

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Actually, you're the one who seems to think that using civilians as human shields is no biggie.  It's a war crime that even Amnesty International pointed out.

ballsalsa said:

A political figure's car gets blown up: 'Ermagerd! That's scary terrorism! Who could support this animalistic behavior?'

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It was the daughter of a political figure and regardless, the Law of Armed Conflict says it's illegal to target political figures.

It's weird how you support war crimes and then try to make me out as the bad guy for not supporting them.

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christopera said:

If you google around a bit there is quite a bit of video evidence of Javelin missiles working even in urban environments. That resulted in some extra smoky Russian vehicles. The entire thing is wishful thinking. Even if the missiles are only 10% effective, they are still blowing shit up 10% of the time. Russia was supposed to be the one blowing shit up.

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Stable Genius said:

koods said:

Stable Genius said:

SirTripAlot said:

Why did Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland,  Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia, Coratia, Albania, North Macedonia join the alliance? That's alot of countries.....why did they do this?

---

U.S. influence most likely.

Shouldn't the question be why did NATO ask Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia to join?
What business was it of NATO's to seek an expansion after the Soviet Union broke up?

---

Just stop with the bullshit.

---

Whats bullshit? Has Ukraine been asked to join NATO?

Do you think NATO was just hanging around with the door open and 7 countries decided to walk in all at once?

Of course they were asked to join.

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SirTripAlot said:

christopera said:

If you google around a bit there is quite a bit of video evidence of Javelin missiles working even in urban environments. That resulted in some extra smoky Russian vehicles. The entire thing is wishful thinking. Even if the missiles are only 10% effective, they are still blowing shit up 10% of the time. Russia was supposed to be the one blowing shit up.

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They are deadly. I was one of the first trained in using this. The brass said this weapon will change the battlefield, and it sure as hell did.


It takes virtually no skill other than the ability to hump 50lbs everywhere. The tandem HEAT warhead/ is a souped up shape charge.....like all explosives the location of the blast is paramount. The missiles basically does a 90 degree dive and stikes the tank at the top of the turret. It's fire and forget, unlike the AT-4s,SMAW, and Dragons before it. This is technology from the mid 90s and costs about $250,000 a trigger pull.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Brian Jones said:

Stable Genius said:

I guess the story will be called RT propaganda by the usual suspect here, but it's worth having a look at.

https://www.rt.com/russia/561318-dugina-suspect-vovk-video/

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I watched that yesterday. How do they have that close up video when she's reaching in to the car?
How do they have all that of that different video, and then she did it, and now she's in a NATO country?

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It was video of her entering and exiting Russia.  Obviously, security at the Russian border is tight right now.

Brian Jones said:

She could have done it, IDK, I wouldn't mind if she did do it, but I think that's only evidence for true believers'

And the usual suspects is everyone here except you two.

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It's evidence she entered Russia, went to Dugin's place, and then left Russia.  What's your explanation?

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Stable Genius said:

Brian Jones said:

I watched that yesterday. How do they have that close up video when she's reaching in to the car?
How do they have all that of that different video, and then she did it, and now she's in a NATO country?

She could have done it, IDK, I wouldn't mind if she did do it, but I think that's only evidence for true believers'

And the usual suspects is everyone here except you two.

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There's plenty of evidence to at least make her a suspect   

Did you watch the video yesterday on RT or elsewhere? Just curious.

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ballsalsa said:

1) Please, let's not insult each other's intelligence by pretending that standing where the bombs land is a crime worse than dropping the bombs.

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ballsalsa said:

2) His daughter was driving his car and we don't know who targeted the vehicle.  Its possible that it was a non-state actor.  For all I know it was organized crime or some faction within the FSB.

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CHeifM4sterDiezL said:

Yeah alot of people are saying it was fsb on orders from putin who tried to have him assainated.

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CHeifM4sterDiezL said:

As far as javelins go raytheon leads the world in this technology. They are fire and forget but you need lock on to the target and they are specifically designed to lock on to russian and Soviet equipment which is why they're so effective against russians. It will not let you blow yourself up firing inside a building or without a clear launch window or shoot some friendly target as they are specifically designed to ignore these targets and lock on to russian and other type of equipment

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CHeifM4sterDiezL said:

Funny how when we were shipping crates stacked to the ceiling with javilins the russians had a big problem with it but now they're trying to say they're garbage

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christopera said:

The photos and the videos show Russian tanks completely blown to pieces. If only they had sent busses and passports.

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