Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | | 375 | 376 | 377 | 378 | 379 | 380 | 381 | 382 | 383 | 384 | 385 | 386 | 387 | 388 | 389 | 390 | 391 | 392 | 393 | 394 | 395 | | Last >
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27861190 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
christopera said:
That doesn't change the fact that he still worked for Trump and was hired by Trump.


But it does indicate that Trump wasn't the war monger that Bolton was.

christopera said:
Trump was a low 37%, Biden is still a solid 1% over that. Not that it matters, it's just that you are making stuff up again.


Biden's popularity was at 36%, which is lower than Trump's lowest of 37%.  I guess it swung back up to 39% since last week.  You must be so proud.


You’re the guy who voted for the guy who hired John Bolton


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #27861206 -

mushboy said:
Nice

Posts irrelevant bullshit. Puts accountability on mods.

:congrats:


People in this thread refuse to believe the U.S. hand ANYTHING to do with a coup in Ukraine yet here's Bolton saying of course we do coup's.

If you're too stupid to link these type of ideas and see a pattern I guess calling it bullshit is an easy out for you... :shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27861208 -

Nah, you are making up shit again. Tons of people, in fact most people know about the coup.

What you are trying to do is justify a war. Shifting accountability to the US, when it is Russia blowing up people.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: christopera]
    #27861213 -

As I've said many times, some believe the US should be able to coup whomever we like without resistance.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27861219 -

Like John Bolton the guy that bragged on tv about it and was hired by the guy you voted for?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27861230 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
As I've said many times, some believe the US should be able to coup whomever we like without resistance.


Who?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27861265 -

The difference is between “orchestrated a coup”, “backed a coup”, and “had anything to do with a coup”. These all mean very different things, with the latter two being obviously true.

The first one implies that the Euromaidan movement, and resulting transfer of power by Ukraine’s parliament, was by and large a creation of the US which there isn’t really evidence for.


--------------------
Nosleep mode: Activated

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Skellies] * 1
    #27861272 -

I agree.

We know that Obama talked about who he wanted as the new political regime, we also know that the unrest started way before Obama talked about it. That is inconvenient for various posters here as they are trying really hard to make the Russian waged war the fault of the US government. Which is shaky at best, because Russia is the one blowing people up.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Skellies] * 1
    #27861291 -

Skellies said:
The difference is between “orchestrated a coup”, “backed a coup”, and “had anything to do with a coup”. These all mean very different things, with the latter two being obviously true.

The first one implies that the Euromaidan movement, and resulting transfer of power by Ukraine’s parliament, was by and large a creation of the US which there isn’t really evidence for.


It’s a distinction without a difference, especially considering there won’t ever be an official document signed by the US President titled ‘Intention To Overthrow Democratically Elected Government X.’


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #27861303 -

Just as there won't be a Putin signed document outlining Russian efforts to impose its will on Ukraine prior to Yanukovych's ouster.  It's very reasonable to assume that both occured to some degree or another but I don't see how any of it excuses this invasion.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27861308 -

The Ecstatic said:
It’s a distinction without a difference,


It’s a huge difference, especially considering the conspiracy is being used to shift blame for a war.

Quote:
especially considering there won’t ever be an official document signed by the US President titled ‘Intention To Overthrow Democratically Elected Government X.’


That’s not the standard though. Numerous coups around the world have actual evidence that shows they were planed by other countries. This one doesn’t.


--------------------
Nosleep mode: Activated

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Skellies]
    #27861319 -

Obama straight up talked about the replacement parties and it is on tape. No doubt there.

That however doesn't mean the US was planning a coup back when the unrest started. The unrest appears fairly genuine in that the people (at least in the urban areas) wanted a Euro deal not a Russian deal.

But the US never bombed/blew up/shot Ukraine, that was Russia. Pretty easy that one.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Skellies] * 1
    #27861326 -

Skellies said:
The Ecstatic said:
It’s a distinction without a difference,


It’s a huge difference, especially considering the conspiracy is being used to shift blame for a war.

Quote:
especially considering there won’t ever be an official document signed by the US President titled ‘Intention To Overthrow Democratically Elected Government X.’


That’s not the standard though. Numerous coups around the world have actual evidence that shows they were planed by other countries. This one doesn’t.


Setting aside the fact that knowing about coups planned by other countries hasn’t affected how the global community approaches coups, I think everyone would agree that the coups planned by other countries for which there is no actual evidence is a higher number than the ones with actual evidence. It literally does not matter, and usually we only get the scant evidence there is a full generation later, rendering that evidence meaningless either way.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27861337 -

Stable Genius said:
mushboy said:
Nice

Posts irrelevant bullshit. Puts accountability on mods.

:congrats:


People in this thread refuse to believe the U.S. hand ANYTHING to do with a coup in Ukraine yet here's Bolton saying of course we do coup's.


He said nothing about Ukraine. He wasn’t even in the US government when the Ukraine coup happened.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: koods] * 3
    #27861364 -

Sure we’ve destabilized governments we’ve had an explicit interest in overthrowing before, but just because every facet of those coups parallel the ones in Ukraine in the run up and culmination of the maidan in 2014 doesn’t mean we had anything to do with it.

Again, we provided logistical, military, and propaganda support to the ones fomenting the coup, and now we’re effectively propping up that resulting government against the folks who ran the government we supported the former in overthrowing, so what fucking difference does it make? No, I didn’t set your house on fire. I simply hated that your house wasn’t on fire, and then gave a bunch of gasoline and matches to an arsonist who agreed with me, and then I ran rhetorical defense for that arsonist with my state officials and media conglomerates. What sane person would argue I didn’t burn your house down? Pointless quibbling.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27861379 -

I cannot fathom the level of western arrogance when someone like stable genius essentially denies the agency of people in foreign lands to decide for themselves when they are tired of their own government. It’s really gross to just label every coup American orchestrated. I’m not exactly sure how the CIA convinces millions of people to protest their own government.

What I do know is the invasion and overthrow of the locally elected governments in eastern Ukraine has been solely orchestrated by the Russian government.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27861380 -

The president fled after widespread unrest... then they held new elections in response. Again, kind of a stretch depending on your definition of a coup.
Do you think the US forced? tricked? people into protesting?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #27861388 -

The Ecstatic said:
Sure we’ve destabilized governments we’ve had an explicit interest in overthrowing before, but just because every facet of those coups parallel the ones in Ukraine in the run up and culmination of the maidan in 2014 doesn’t mean we had anything to do with it.

Again, we provided logistical, military, and propaganda support to the ones fomenting the coup, and now we’re effectively propping up that resulting government against the folks who ran the government we supported the former in overthrowing, so what fucking difference does it make? No, I didn’t set your house on fire. I simply hated that your house wasn’t on fire, and then gave a bunch of gasoline and matches to an arsonist who agreed with me, and then I ran rhetorical defense for that arsonist with my state officials and media conglomerates. What sane person would argue I didn’t burn your house down? Pointless quibbling.


That is actually a pretty big difference.

If we're considering rhetoric about leadership preferences in other countries to be a coup, then Putin started a coup in the US when he expressed a preference for Trump over Hillary.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Kryptos]
    #27861392 -

.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (07/13/22 05:56 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27861411 -

The Ecstatic said:
Setting aside the fact that knowing about coups planned by other countries hasn’t affected how the global community approaches coups


According to what? Even when everything is broiled down to interest (setting aside that states often have numerous and conflicting interests), the facts around an event change how it's perceived and often the perception of an event matters more than the event itself when interest is evaluated. How people in decision making roles view the situation around them effects their response.

Quote:
I think everyone would agree that the coups planned by other countries for which there is no actual evidence is a higher number than the ones with actual evidence.


It might be, but no reasonable person could claim that as true seeing that it's unfalsifiable.

Quote:
It literally does not matter, and usually we only get the scant evidence there is a full generation later, rendering that evidence meaningless either way.


Grounding the perception of each event in it's reality as much as possible is important because it informs every perception and thought around it. Without that grounding you just get absurdism where anything can be caused by, or justified in response to anything :yawn:


--------------------
Nosleep mode: Activated

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | | 375 | 376 | 377 | 378 | 379 | 380 | 381 | 382 | 383 | 384 | 385 | 386 | 387 | 388 | 389 | 390 | 391 | 392 | 393 | 394 | 395 | | Last >

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Bush's rush to Iraq War Helping al-Qaida fft2 538 0 07/14/04 03:49 AM
by fft2
* The Irish-Iraqi War Anonymous 1,212 4 03/06/03 04:57 AM
by GazzBut
* Teen Deported For Suspected Nazi War Crimes Starter 1,235 5 12/20/03 10:33 PM
by Baby_Hitler
* Yushchenko Certain Ukraine Government Poisoned Him usefulidiot 1,022 6 12/24/04 02:29 PM
by Annapurna1
* A message from the Ukraine Krishna 733 1 11/26/04 09:53 AM
by question_for_joo
* Doctors: Ukrainian opposition leader poisoned zahudulallah 466 0 12/11/04 09:48 AM
by zahudulallah
* Arm yourself with info- 60 reasons we shouldnt be at war
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 PsiloKitten 12,397 93 11/02/13 10:08 PM
by Yogi1
* Iraq War Quiz
( 1 2 all )		 RonoS 3,172 21 03/27/03 02:51 PM
by Murex

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
415,796 topic views. 3 members, 14 guests and 21 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.051 seconds spending 0.018 seconds on 16 queries.