unam sanctum said:

Where exactly was it shown that NYT is less reputable than RT? I'd love to see you back that up. I'd really love to understand how you think a free press could possibly be less accurate than one run by the state. 

If you really cared you would source your shit.

---

ballsalsa said:

Call it what you want, Russian forces were in occupation of the region before the vote, outside the scope of their treaty. Putin admitted it. No amount of sugar coating can change it.

---

ballsalsa said:

Again, you say there was no invasion, no occupation but Putin disagrees. Who should I believe?

---

koods said:

He’s so disingenuous. Russia leased a naval base in Crimea from Ukraine. That’s why there were Russian troops in Crimea prior to 2014.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact

---

Quote:

Then please explain why you said "votes held under foreign military occupation are absolutely not legit".

Russia was in Crimea by treaty (see Kharkiv Pact)

---

chopstick said:

unam sanctum said:

chopstick said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

The only 'crackdown' is that independent media are no longer allowed to spread intentionally fake news, and after this law passed, Western media voluntarily left.

---

"We can't lie anymore, time to get the fuck out of the country! Damn you Putin!"

-The Western Media

Honestly, the fact that Russia even tolerated the presence of these scum in the first place is pretty mind blowing.

---

Are you able to give me a direct answer to this question?

If you really feel the way you describe, then why not just move to Russia? 

I'm sure they would love to have you.  I WILL pay for a one way ticket for you. 

Why stay somewhere you seem to despise so deeply?

---

Says the guy STILL advocating for ww3 to protect an openly Neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine guilty of COUNTLESS murders and disappearances.

If you hate Russia SO MUCH, then why don't YOU go to Ukraine and fight Russia instead of volunteering tens of millions of Americans to die for YOUR illogical hatred and shameless propaganda, or are you a coward?

---

unam sanctum said:

again, I will buy your ticket if you wish to move back to the motherland. 

---

unam sanctum said:

why not just move to Russia and suck Putin's cock in person?  I'm offering you a once in a lifetime chance.

---

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

ballsalsa said:

Again, you say there was no invasion, no occupation but Putin disagrees. Who should I believe?

---

Wait, Putin said there was an invasion and an occupation?  I missed that in my discussion with shivas.

---

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

koods said:

He’s so disingenuous. Russia leased a naval base in Crimea from Ukraine. That’s why there were Russian troops in Crimea prior to 2014.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact

---

Exactly.  Balls is disingenuous.  But so are you, as I already posted that here.

---

The Ecstatic said:

chopstick said:

ballsalsa said:

chopstick said:

Why is it completely impossible for you to simply accept that the Crimean referendum might have been legit?

---

Because votes held under foreign military occupation are absolutely not legit.

---

Right, I forgot votes only count when it is convenient for US foreign policy interests for them to count.

In all other cases, nobody is allowed to determine their own fate without the United States giving them permission.

---

The US being hypocrites doesn’t make other countries good by default.

---

ballsalsa said:

Am I that formidable or are you so feeble that you need to keep erecting strawmen to knock down instead of addressing my position?

---

No, your position is weak as shit. It's just the constant position of ignorance that you maintain at all costs that I can't stand.

But you do you and keep make-believing the Crimean referendum totally doesn't count because you don't want it to, if you like

Luckily, it counted for the only people that matter in this case - Crimea and Russia. Funny how not a single Crimean complained about the apparently so oppressive Russian military presence that was necessary to stop the Banderites from just walking in and killing people during the voting process, but apparently according to you it invalidates the whole thing.

I wonder if there had been no Russian protection during the vote, and the Ukrainian military walked in and started shooting anyone that tried to vote, would you care or would it just be "Ukraine defending their sovereignty"?

ballsalsa said:

Sure, I'll quote it for you since you seemed to have missed it

Quote:

Vladimir Putin: ...in my conversations with my foreign colleagues I did not hide the fact that our goal was to ensure proper conditions for the people of Crimea to be able to freely express their will. And so we had to take the necessary measures in order to prevent the situation in Crimea unfolding the way it is now unfolding in southeastern Ukraine. We didn’t want any tanks, any nationalist combat units or people with extreme views armed with automatic weapons. Of course, the Russian servicemen did back the Crimean self-defence forces. They acted in a civil but a decisive and professional manner, as I’ve already said.

It was impossible to hold an open, honest, and dignified referendum and help people express their opinion in any other way. Still, bear in mind that there were more than 20,000 well-armed soldiers stationed in Crimea. In addition, there were 38 S-300 missile launchers, weapons depots and rounds of ammunition. It was imperative to prevent even the possibility of someone using these weapons against civilians.

---

There you go. According to Putin, Russian servicemen were deployed to back a separatist group against the existing government of Crimea.

That's what an invasion and occupation is.

---

They backed the force ensuring conditions for a free, open, and fair election.  You think the conditions in Donbas would have made for better elections?  Right after their democratically elected government was overthrown? 

chopstick said:

ballsalsa said:

Call it what you want, Russian forces were in occupation of the region before the vote, outside the scope of their treaty. Putin admitted it. No amount of sugar coating can change it.

---

Call it what you want, but no amount of sugar coating can change the fact that Crimeans were so disgusted with the illegitimate post-coup regime installed by Obama and Victoria Nuland that they voted in a 95% super-majority to join Russia.

God Damn I swear to God, if it were up to people like you all of Crimea would have been forced to stay in Ukraine just so they could be brutally oppressed, murdered, tortured and executed by the fuckin' shitbag Banderites that stole power with US-backing just to satisfy your personal disdain for Russia.

---

ballsalsa said:

You've lost all credibility, my dude.
I've given you so many opportunities to approach this topic honestly but you just can't for some reason. I'm not sure what's happened to you in the last couple years, hell, for all I know you're literally a different person now. I can say that I've lost 99% of the respect I had for you and it's extremely difficult to take you seriously at this point.

---

ballsalsa said:

But hey, you've gained some fans on the fringe-right so you've got that going for you.

---

The 'fringe right'?  Is that where you think Stable Genius and chopstick (for example) are?  I'm sure koods welcomes you to the make believe club.  Keep hurling those fake insults if that's where you're at now. 

koods said:

Quote:

Then please explain why you said "votes held under foreign military occupation are absolutely not legit".

Russia was in Crimea by treaty (see Kharkiv Pact)

---

Russia was leasing a base in Sevastopol by treaty. There was no provision for them to occupy any part of Crimea except the Ukrainian territory being leased. They were guests on Ukrainian land.

The way you spin shit is just amazing. You don’t give a flying fuck about the truth.

If the US decided to expand its presence in Cuba beyond Guantanamo Bay and invaded and occupied half the island, then ten days later the US held an referendum asking if that occupied territory would like to join the US, there is no way you would find that legitimate.

---

End of discussion.