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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27739605 -

ballsalsa said:
Who decided that Chechnya was part of Russia?


1921 Russia?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #27739659 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm not certain what Stable Genius's argument was; hence, my post to possibly clarify.


I didn't understand why the numbers were different by over 3000 as I was under the impression shivas.wisdom got the numbers either from Wiki or from sites that Wiki quoted both times.

And

I'm going to stop quoting news sources and chill out for a while as I've come to the understanding that I'm as gullible as the next person when it comes to falling for dis-information. There's no point in me hanging my hat on news articles when really I have no idea on whether they are true, or not, or somewhere in between.

I never joined this site with the intention of ending up in arguments with people I don't really know or have no legitimate grievance with, and that sucks. I actually like most of you, even the people I'm arguing with the most!

Life is a series a choices, take it easy  :hatsoff:

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27739673 -

It’s bizarre isn’t it?  So much confusion.  It’s the Tower of Babel 2.0.  I’m sick of it.


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27739681 -



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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: budmanman]
    #27739683 -

:scarygrin:


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

Edited by The Blind Ass (04/18/22 06:31 AM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27739834 -

Quote:
I'm going to stop quoting news sources and chill out for a while as I've come to the understanding that I'm as gullible as the next person when it comes to falling for dis-information


 
  If the next person supports the invasion and destruction of Ukraine that's probably true .

    I'll give you a tip , if the propaganda is coming from the country that doesn't allow its citizens to have freedom of expression , it's probably bullshit .


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27739852 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
ballsalsa said:
Who decided that Chechnya was part of Russia?


1921 Russia?


And that is fundamentally different from Ukraine deciding that the separatist regions are Ukraine, how?

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27739893 -

Nobody has a fundamental claim to any land on earth. The logical conclusion of this conflict is to throw off the shackles of nationalism and erect a border-less society.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27739904 -

chopstick said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Hey chopstick, can you provide the sources you're using when making the claim that the Ukrainian state has killed ~14,000 people in eastern Ukraine over the last 8 years?


That has nothing to do with your anarchist Russian fifth columnist "friends" essentially being compromised CIA stooges. Or at-least, acting like it.

But I will answer you anyway.

The claim comes from Russian and DPR sources. This is the only one I could find, most search results are drowned out by MSM trash and pro-Ukraine sources: https://tass.com/politics/1417543

You are free to believe or disbelieve - I could truly care less. I do know one thing though, the Wikipedia numbers you threw out in the past are 100% garbage, little more than manipulated trash designed to make it look like Ukraine is responsible for killing less people than they actually did. This isn't surprising since Wikipedia has lost its original purpose and now pushes propaganda as fact in many, many articles. For example, the War in Donbass Wiki article immediately comes up as "Russian invasion of Ukraine since 2014." This is a blatant and absurd lie.

Anybody still using Wikipedia, unless it's strictly for non-political articles where no agenda would or could be present, is doing themselves a massive disservice.


I saw an interview with the founder of Wikipedia recently disscussing how appalled he is by what it has now become.

But even non-political content has also been corrupted. Ricky Gervais' page is a good example. Back in the day it was a balanced 'warts and all' account of his career. It now reads like he wrote (or at least approved) it himself, and has obviously been airbrushed!


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"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27739917 -

The Ecstatic said:
Nobody has a fundamental claim to any land on earth. The logical conclusion of this conflict is to throw off the shackles of nationalism and erect a border-less society.


I'll take nationalism (though I have never been a nationalist) over globalism! Imagine a world controlled by only one government. One government, one people and one media.

Or rather this government, this media, and these people! In control of it all!

I am basically a globalist at heart, but think (like communism) in practice a one world government would be an Orwellian nightmare.


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"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27739920 -

Be that as it may, I won't hold my breath waiting for humans to stop fighting over territory and resources.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: wolf8312] * 3
    #27739922 -

We already live under a global system of oppression it’s called capitalism. My post was more tongue in cheek though, although I do believe that we should do that.


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa] * 5
    #27739934 -

ballsalsa said:
Be that as it may, I won't hold my breath waiting for humans to stop fighting over territory and resources.


Absolutely. Everything has become punditized, to the point where the idea of news or politics has become an exceedingly more elaborate discussion over the potential consequences of some gamified eventuality, rather than simply analyzing the event based on a moral code. I think there’s obviously a utility in the former, but first and foremost we should all be able to say that Russia invading Ukraine and getting people killed is bad, no matter how you feel about who deserves what portion of the blame. When fal makes the topic about the consequences of historical territory disputes, then we’re just stuck in this loop unless we’re all going to agree that a global border-less society is the answer. I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t see the point of arguing consequences and power dynamics and geopolitics if you’re just going to stop halfway up the flow chart of events, like you correctly noted about 1921. If we aren’t going to talk about the root of the root of the root of why this happening, then we might as well just say Putin is wrong and lock the thread, otherwise we’re just repeating carefully constructed talking points that lend credence to whatever narrow analysis of select events that reinforce your worldview.


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Edited by The Ecstatic (04/18/22 12:39 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27739942 -

Amen :cheers:


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27739994 -

Welp it has now been pretty much confirmed that Gonzalo Lira has been captured by Azov in Kharkov.

There's a good chance they have already killed him, but if he's alive then I sincerely hope he will get exchanged or otherwise released.

He was not a fighter on either side, merely someone who criticized the Zelensky regime and Nazi battalions from inside Ukraine.

Unfortunately that's all it takes for you to get kidnapped, tortured and killed in those parts. Somebody like me for example could NOT write the things I do from Ukraine, I would find myself in an SBU torture chamber.

Gonzalo, hope you're safe man. The truth will win in the end.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27740047 -

ballsalsa said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
ballsalsa said:
Who decided that Chechnya was part of Russia?


1921 Russia?


And that is fundamentally different from Ukraine deciding that the separatist regions are Ukraine, how?


Let me ask you the question I've been asking shivas.wisdom:  "If China helps US communists overthrow the US government, should all Americans be required to obey the newly installed communist Government?"

If you answer yes, then I understand why you think Donbas/Crimea would still be Ukrainian, but I'll strongly disagree.

This is the difference.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #27740068 -

The difference is that if they wanted to be Russian they could have gone and become a citizen of Russia. In no way does that give Russia the right to invade.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
    #27740075 -

:mindblown:
So obvious yet it never seems to cross his mind.
:lol:

Anyways, I think Ecstatic cut to the chase & summed this and most other conflicts of a similar nature up nicely.  Nothing more for me to say here. :thumbup:


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Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27740081 -

Like if Russia wanted their ethnic people back they could have provided them citizenship and sent busses. Instead they sent tanks.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: christopera]
    #27740087 -

.                      Woah…thinking outside the box. Are you sure you aren’t secretly a genius?
:geicogecko:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps or give me Death caps.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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