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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Curious Thinker] * 2
    #27708293 -

Curios thinker, a 50 lb bag of oats is about $15 and I’ve never heard of them coming with bugs. Also, most aren’t using poo anymore. You can do agar, to grain spawn, to bulk by mixing with nothing but coir which should make your mrs happy


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27708312 -

Yeah I know poo isn't necessary.  I just read where some do that and I joked with her that I was going to use it just to see her reaction. Probably read it in older threads. I used coir and verm for the first grow and will probably stick with that until I run out of verm.  Might try just coir after that.

Thinking about going with rye berries if I can find them locally, unless they're super expensive. Still in the early stages though and need to do more research.  Basically I want to use whatever is most fool proof/tolerant of mistakes while I'm still learning, but that's for another thread.

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Curious Thinker]
    #27708319 -

In my area wheat is super duper hella cheap and it's pretty much the same prep as rye. I just boil it for 25-30 minutes.


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
    #27708365 -

Man, shits a contentious subject here fo sure. First off, any of y'all complaining about having all your UB bags contam out have no business even fucking weighing in on teks because there's only one source of contam and that's innoc. So stop snobbin your embarrassin yoself.

My first grow was UB. I don't use it any more but it got me what I needed when I needed it. Imo the benefit of UB is it comes cooked and sterile which is great for beginners. Yeah it's comparatively more expensive once you've got the shit you need but for complete noobs they can get a dozen bags of off-brand precooked rice and some sterile tape for under $20 and all you've got to do is wipe evening down and stick the spore syringe in and boom. But they be lookin at more like $150 minimum to get a PC, bulk grains, jars, silicone/healing port, filters, agar, trays - plus all the wasted grain and time while to get sterile technique tight and moisture content and make 2 dozen other mistakes cause let's be honest that's how it goes.

Like fucking duh nobody is bulk producing w UB. But total beginners can do it with a 70+% success rate unless unless they're a complete backbirth. They get some mushies  fast and easy, gain some confidence that it's possible and some interest in other teks and sure as shit if they keep with it they're gonna end up here doing the "real" shit.

Some of y'all are being straight up snobby and if you couldn't make UB work you got no business tellin anyone anything. A good tek is one that can get somebody what they need, where they are.


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Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: MushieLibre] * 2
    #27708455 -

Quote:
MushieLibre said:
total beginners can do it with a 70+% success rate


That’s a very generous gestimation there, dawg. The amount of crybabies from YouTube and Reddit coming here asking why their Uncie Ben projects shit the bed would say otherwise.

Quote:
MushieLibre said:
A good tek is one that can get somebody what they need


I think what you mean is… a good tek is one that can get somebody what they need consistently.

UB is not a bad place to start i guess. People either get fed up with consistent failure from such things and give up, or they learn legitimate cultivation practices. The community here is largely based off the latter.

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27708960 -

TheStallionMang said:
Lol. Yeah I read some of but but damn that was a lot o words


lmao yeah i don't blame anyone for not reading that novel. i still agree with what i said but idk what the fuck came over me to write a high school essay that probably coulda been summed up in 7 sentences lol.


@curious thinker:

yellowing can def happen from drying out as well as from bacteria. looks like it just got dry in the corners to me. could have just been unlucky with the second flush/might be seeing a rolling flush that happens with MS, but coulda been weak from latent contams too. maybe you'll escape unscathed. if the tub breaks out with trich during the second flush you'll know for sure. if i'm using less than perfect spawn it usually comes right after the first or during the second flush. beginners luck is great until it runs out, & it definitely runs out eventually. it's a good time to jump into some other teks. regardless of yield, it's 40g of mushrooms more than you had before & is plenty of trips! despite the UB spawn, it seems like you did a decent job with your tubs regarding proper conditions, so that experience should serve you well in future grows.

agar is super easy. check out pasty's agar tek if you need a simple place to start in. it'll take you as far as you ever need to go in this hobby. for grains, oats are generally pretty clean in terms of bugs & shit, but i get not wanting to buy 50lb of the shit no matter how cheap it is lol. it's nice to have a lot on hand, but you might find you like other grains better after gaining some more experience. i started with oats after PF & now i use WBS. i really love WBS & would personally recommend it over oats, but basically any grain is gonna do you well. if you want less commitment than 50lb of oats, WBS is a nice alternative. a medium to large bag is still pretty cheap, but you'll also go through it after a few rounds of jars. super easy to prep & i just love the way it colonizes. very classy grain. basically all grains should perform the same if they are prepped & sterilized properly, & all grains have the potential to get fucked as much as the next, but everyone has their own favorites. jokes aside, i think some people still use manure but tbh you can't beat how fucking simple coir is to grow on. you def don't need verm either but people seem to like adding it. i think it helps to retain a bit more moisture, like it does for plants in soil, but pure coir can give great results too. regardless, it's nice to have verm on hand in case you make your coir a bit to wet (happens to me from time to time; i eyeball water & coir ratios. usually i'm just shy of field capacity & add a bit more water but sometimes i'm a little over. it's good to figure out what ratios work best for you)

WeavieWonder said:
That’s a very generous gestimation there, dawg. The amount of crybabies from YouTube and Reddit coming here asking why their Uncie Ben projects shit the bed would say otherwise.

I think what you mean is… a good tek is one that can get somebody what they need consistently.

UB is not a bad place to start i guess. People either get fed up with consistent failure from such things and give up, or they learn legitimate cultivation practices. The community here is largely based off the latter.


pretty much this. i think a lot of bacteria goes undetected by beginners & so anything not green or brown is considered "clean." the ratio of fucked UB/spore to grain grows that get posted here vs fucked PF tek grows leans heavily toward the former from what i see on here


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27708988 -

TheStallionMang said:
Curios thinker, a 50 lb bag of oats is about $15 and I’ve never heard of them coming with bugs. Also, most aren’t using poo anymore. You can do agar, to grain spawn, to bulk by mixing with nothing but coir which should make your mrs happy



Right here, oats come with weevils 100%.

I still use cow manure.
You just have to pasteurize properly and youre good.


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Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: pablokabute]
    #27709089 -

According to Bod, you can kill interloping oat bugs with some diatomaceous earth:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24676218/vc/1#24676218


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: KROM]
    #27709267 -

Thanks for the heads up on uncle bens

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: RobertoCreator]
    #27725152 -

Auto-Summary
The author provides an update on their recent Unidentified Break (UB) growing experience, detailing the results of inoculating three original shoeboxes and five bags of UB rice. Of the three shoeboxes, all produced at least two flushes with no signs of contamination, resulting in a 63% success rate. Of the five bags of UB rice, three fully colonized, one was 90% colonized, and one had wet rot after break and shake, leading to an 80% success rate. The author suggests that UB can be a successful option for beginners, provided they follow good sterile technique and use a quality spore syringe. The author concludes that while agar may be more challenging for beginners, UB is a viable alternative with a reasonable success rate.

Just wanted to provide an update on the 3 original UB shoeboxes and the 5 bags of UB rice I recently inoculated.

The three shoeboxes that were created from 5 colonized rice bags (out of 8 bags; 3 contamed) all produced first and second flushes.  I got about 40 grams dried from the first flushes and about 20 grams dried from the second flushes.  The second flush that took the longest was only harvested yesterday and I tossed the substrate because I'm about to start some new shoeboxes and don't want to introduce trich from an old shoebox to a new one.  There weren't any signs of contamination in the box but I only got 4 dried grams from it and didn't see the point in trying for a third flush.

The other two shoeboxes that produced quicker second flushes are working on a third but the pins and mushrooms are really small so I don't know how much I'll get from them.  I'll probably harvest whatever they produce tomorrow or Saturday before starting the new shoeboxes.

So of the three shoeboxes from the first run of 5 rice bags that survived (out of 8 that were inoculated), all three produced at least two flushes and none showed any signs of contamination other than some yellow myc that I believe was caused by allowing the corners to dry out a little too much.  So that's a 63% success rate on the rice inoculation phase and 100% success rate on the spawn to bulk phase.

Of the 5 bags of UB that I inoculated about a month ago, 3 have fully colonized, 1 is 90% colonized, and 1 had wet rot after the break and shake.  I waited until the bags were about 50% colonized before doing the b&s.  One thing I've noticed is that wet rot shows up very quick after doing the b&s.  Of the 8 bags I inoculated on my first attempt, 2 clearly had wet rot just after the b&s but not before.  Same story here with the second attempt.  There were no signs of wet rot or weird smells before b&s.  However, after the b&s one bag never recovered and the rice felt loose in the bag whereas the other bags were firm from the myc recolonizing after just a couple days.  The bag that wasn't firm smelled like rotten milk when squeezed and I threw it out.  So that's 4 out of 5 bags that survived, for an 80% success rate. 

This will most likely be my last UB grow before switching to agar.  I don't have any more bags and want to start isolating strains and doing clones to get more consistent growth.  These tubs also all colonized at different rates and I had to let the earliest mushrooms drop their spores while waiting on the later mushrooms to develop more.  Overall though I would say it's been successful enough to recommend as an option for beginners who just want to try a grow or two before deciding to try more advanced TEKs.  Just make sure to use a syringe from a reputable supplier and start out with a strain that is known to be easier to grow.  My first 8 bags were b+ and the most recent 5 bags were golden teachers and both syringes came from a shroomery sponsor.

Beyond that, use a SAB, shower, wear a mask, utilize rubbing alcohol, flame sterilize the needle, and whatever you do, DON'T INJECT MORE THAN 0.5 CC OF THE SPORE SYRINGE IN A UB BAG. It gets too moist if you do.

So, out of the first 13 bags I inoculated with two different spore syringes, 9 survived, for a success rate of 69%.  I mean, that's not terrible for a person's first two attempts.  And I improved from a 63% success rate on the first bags to an 80% success rate on the second batch by simply not injecting as much liquid into the bags.

I get why so many here recommend agar.  But I also think a lot of those folks don't realize how daunting it can seem to a newb to start with agar.  There's just so much to learn!  I really believe a lot of people just don't remember what it's like to be a complete beginner.  As I mentioned earlier, I hadn't even grown a plant before this.

We can debate the merits of PF TEK and UB TEK, but without a large number of trials between the two I don't think we'll ever know which is better and the success rate of each.  Based on my own personal experience, which is admittedly limited, UB worked on 9 out of 13 bags and I improved from the first attempt to the second.

If I had to guess, I'd say PF probably has a higher success rate overall but also probably lower yields.  Regardless, my own experience shows that UB can be successful too when following a few rules:

1. Follow good sterile technique, including showering, Lysol the air, use rubbing alcohol, wear gloves and a mask, use a SAB, flame sterilize the needle, use a syringe from a quality supplier, and choose an easy strain to grow such as b+ or golden teacher (no penis envy).

2. DON'T INJECT MORE THAN 0.5 CC INTO A UB BRAND BAG OR YOU'LL GET WET ROT

I'll preface this by saying that I've never done PF TEK, but I have read up on it quite a bit and was going to try it until I realized that wide mouth half pint jars were in short supply and the places that did have them in stock were clearly price gouging (this was about 3 months ago).  I think UB is almost as good, and better if you plan to spawn to bulk. Is it foolproof? Nope.  But it does work if you do your part in buying a quality syringe from a reputable supplier and follow good sterile technique.  It's a great place to start without much investment to determine how deep into this hobby you want to get.

Happy grows everyone :mushroom2:

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27725158 -

hazyhorse said:
...

@curious thinker:

yellowing can def happen from drying out as well as from bacteria. looks like it just got dry in the corners to me. could have just been unlucky with the second flush/might be seeing a rolling flush that happens with MS, but coulda been weak from latent contams too. maybe you'll escape unscathed. if the tub breaks out with trich during the second flush you'll know for sure. if i'm using less than perfect spawn it usually comes right after the first or during the second flush. beginners luck is great until it runs out, & it definitely runs out eventually. it's a good time to jump into some other teks. regardless of yield, it's 40g of mushrooms more than you had before & is plenty of trips! despite the UB spawn, it seems like you did a decent job with your tubs regarding proper conditions, so that experience should serve you well in future grows.

agar is super easy. check out pasty's agar tek if you need a simple place to start in. it'll take you as far as you ever need to go in this hobby. for grains, oats are generally pretty clean in terms of bugs & shit, but i get not wanting to buy 50lb of the shit no matter how cheap it is lol. it's nice to have a lot on hand, but you might find you like other grains better after gaining some more experience. i started with oats after PF & now i use WBS. i really love WBS & would personally recommend it over oats, but basically any grain is gonna do you well. if you want less commitment than 50lb of oats, WBS is a nice alternative. a medium to large bag is still pretty cheap, but you'll also go through it after a few rounds of jars. super easy to prep & i just love the way it colonizes. very classy grain. basically all grains should perform the same if they are prepped & sterilized properly, & all grains have the potential to get fucked as much as the next, but everyone has their own favorites. jokes aside, i think some people still use manure but tbh you can't beat how fucking simple coir is to grow on. you def don't need verm either but people seem to like adding it. i think it helps to retain a bit more moisture, like it does for plants in soil, but pure coir can give great results too. regardless, it's nice to have verm on hand in case you make your coir a bit to wet (happens to me from time to time; i eyeball water & coir ratios. usually i'm just shy of field capacity & add a bit more water but sometimes i'm a little over. it's good to figure out what ratios work best for you)

...




I ended up getting two flushes out of each box and am working on third flushes in two of the boxes.  Though the third flushes are very weak so far.  No signs of contamination yet but I'm about to start 2-3 new boxes and I don't see the point in trying to get just a few grams from third flushes while risking contamination in the new boxes (I only have a small grow closet and can't effectively separate the old boxes from the new).

The two tubs I've still got going show no more yellow but the myc that has formed on top of the stumps and old myc is VERY fluffy.  Not sure exactly what the issue is but I suspect it's either too much moisture or not enough fae.  That's just a guess though, still need to get more experience

My next grow will be either broke boi tek (just because I have some dried brown rice I don't suspect I'll use for anything else and I also have plenty of syringes on hand) or I'll go straight to agar.  It really depends on how quickly I can find all the supplies I need for agar.  I suspect I'll have to order quite a few things online so I'll probably experiment with broke boi just for fun while gathering agar supplies.

I also think WBS is the grain I'll end up using with agar.  There are plenty of Walmarts and Lowe's around here but not really any grain feed stores.  I don't think I'll be able to find any quality rye or wheat and I'm not going to use the cheap oats that have bugs.  Just don't want to deal with that plus I'm not at a point where I need 50 lbs of grain at a time.  It would probably spoil before I could use all 50 lbs at this point.

I have to say I'm very lucky to have had a successful first grow and can now afford to experiment a little bit without having to worry about running out of mushrooms.

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Curious Thinker]
    #27726573 -

Need to update the previous post.  I s2b all four bags tonight and the one that looked like it was 90% colonized was actually only 60% colonized after opening the bag.  It also had a slightly different smell, not like wet rot but also not quite like normal either.  Also had a few green spots.

Based on how long it was taking to colonize compared to the other bags I chose to throw it out rather than take a chance of contaminating the tubs.

So that takes the inoculation success rate down from 80% to 60%. That also takes the overall success rate down from 69% to 61%. 

I still say that UB can work but expect some failures as well.  Agar is better :wink:

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Curious Thinker] * 2
    #27726643 -

Curious Thinker said:
Need to update the previous post.  I s2b all four bags tonight and the one that looked like it was 90% colonized was actually only 60% colonized after opening the bag.  It also had a slightly different smell, not like wet rot but also not quite like normal either.  Also had a few green spots.

Based on how long it was taking to colonize compared to the other bags I chose to throw it out rather than take a chance of contaminating the tubs.

So that takes the inoculation success rate down from 80% to 60%. That also takes the overall success rate down from 69% to 61%. 

I still say that UB can work but expect some failures as well.  Agar is better :wink:


I’m in no way advocating the use of UB but why are UB and Agar work not synonymous? Nothing stopping you throwing a wedge in a bag or even using LC. I done it when I was starting out. I think just shooting spores into grain is the issue rather than the medium.


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: sandman420] * 1
    #27727163 -

sandman420 said:
It's stupid to shoot anything into a package that you can't even see what the hell is going on inside of.

It was stupid and it will always be stupid. Uncle Bens method is half ass bullshit for half ass bullshitters.

Actually the real reason is my Uncle Ben made take pictures in a dress when I was a kid alright.


I think UB is a great proof of concept and novelty, but I am puzzled at the fact that people think it's the "easiest" way to grow, which it is not at all.

Watching videos of UB inoculation gives me anxiety.  Where you need to poke at a special angle so you don't poke through both ends, need to cut it open and tape it in a special way so it's not completely shut off from GE...etc.  There are just way too many steps a newbie can fuck up, and way too many vectors to introduce contaminants.

on top of all that, you can't see WTF is going on, and pretty much won't find out if it's good or not until it's too late.

when I started, my options were All in one grow bag, PF tek, broke boi tek, and UB.

I picked AIO bags first and failed, so I went with PF tek and had my first harvest.

Now having more experience in pretty much all methods under the sun, I would say broke boi has replaced PF tek as the most beginner-friendly method IMO.


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: MycoWeek]
    #27728397 -

I’m going to try UB tek out of simplicity and cost, and I don’t have a PC yet. I already started a 3lb pre sterilized grain bag from a sponsor, but per pound the rice bags are cheaper than the injectable grain bags (1.25 at dollar tree, same bags are 2.79 at Whole Foods)
Does prepping them ahead of time make this more “legit” 🤪





Edited by Seamonkey84 (04/10/22 09:03 AM)

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Seamonkey84] * 4
    #27728405 -

Seamonkey84 said:
Does prepping them ahead of time make this more “legit” 🤪



No.


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: KROM] * 5
    #27728411 -

Honestly putting that kind of effort into this is upsetting me. You ruined my whole sunday.

Now let me get back to my book


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- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Seamonkey84] * 2
    #27728441 -

Seamonkey84 said:
I’m going to try UB tek out of simplicity and cost, and I don’t have a PC yet. I already started a 3lb pre sterilized grain bag from a sponsor, but per pound the rice bags are cheaper than the injectable grain bags (1.25 at dollar tree, same bags are 2.79 at Whole Foods)
Does prepping them ahead of time make this more “legit” 🤪



3 cups of vermiculite and 1 1/2 cups of BRF makes 7 1/2 pint jars. Costs me $1.50. You don’t need a PC. 7 jars give me a ounce or two dried.
How much was the tube of silicon and the 3 lb bag of pre-sterilized grain?
I don’t know how you define simplicity so I can’t help you there.

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: KROM]
    #27728541 -

KROM said:
Seamonkey84 said:
Does prepping them ahead of time make this more “legit” 🤪



No.



--------------------

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: The Tao]
    #27728558 -

The 3lb bag of grains was $20 locally (from a sponsor here actually). That’s higher than other sellers on Etsy/Amazon I know, but I get local pickup at their facility. The silicone I bought for making jars in the future anyway.
Simple as in, I don’t have to set time aside to sterilize and allow to cool before use.  Having Injectable bags at the ready to use are much more convenient and doable for my schedule/life.
Microwave rice bags vs grain bags really don’t seem any different to me for personal/hobby grows. Following all the same best practices, using a injection port and doing the gas exchange vents in a SAB/Flow hood, using LC or agar, how is the rice bag any different than a grain bag or jar of BRF?  Contamination from user error/carelessness (not following instructions fully) isn’t the fault of the tek. Spores to grains is a bad idea, but again that’s not the fault of the tek but the choice/options of the user. The extra steps and issues with working with agar and making LC can be very intimidating for a beginner that just wants to try growing their first batch of mushrooms (I know, I’m doing exactly that right now). Granted, I jumped right in and started with isolated cultures, injectable grain bags, stack of blank agars, and slapped together a positive pressure clean air box (yes I know I know, Laminar or nothing). I’m making my own LC and testing them now, they’ll be going into a couple rice bags for my second grow, same culture that I used in the 3lb grain bag that should be ready in the next day or two. I’ll compare the two grows, but they’ll be about 2-3 weeks apart from each other.

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