Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | | Last >
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27706764 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Kickle said:
damn that's a horrible thought. that we will have conflict for generations now. but it's probably true :frown:


An unfortunate reality of international borders which function as a binary, and a human population that exists as a spectrum.

Borders don’t surround populations - they run through them. They don’t protect communities - they cut them apart.


Yes, this is well beyond the scope of this thread. But reality is often unfortuante :lol:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #27706802 -

Here’s a quick snippet of Jeremy Corbyn laying down the basic facts of what’s been developing in Ukraine, historically but also over the past few weeks:

https://twitter.com/watchmeburndow1/status/1506383751718178820?s=21


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27706808 -

Well maybe the only point in there that hasn't been discussed to death in this thread is that there is quite obviously a power struggle between the East and West playing out in this too. It's a different kind of conflict because there are nukes involved.

March 18th
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/exclusive-china-sails-carrier-through-taiwan-strait-hours-before-biden-xi-call-2022-03-18/

March 20th


March 22nd
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1256552.shtml


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #27706817 -

Sure, but there are folks dismissing these ideas entirely because they think they’re some Russian psyop fabrication.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic] * 5
    #27706833 -

I hope you don't loop me into that group. One key difference here, compared to prior posts I've been critical of, is that Corbyn explains the greater context of the situation, the hypocrisy of the West, and the escalation of NATO - while still being clear that military aggression by the Russian state isn't supported, and arguing for a solution that centres the various populations of people living within Ukraine.

At the risk of repeating myself, those little acknowledgements make for a big difference.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27706840 -

I’m not.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #27706842 -

Kickle said:
March 20th



I like Jimmy Dore's take on this:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27706956 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Ah yes, chopstick - the person who claims the Ukrainian state has killed ~15,000 civilians in Donbass over the past 8 years, when the actual number of civilian deaths in the region (before the Russian military invaded) was 3,393, with only 305 civilian deaths in the past 6 years; and these numbers aren't just the deaths caused by the Ukrainian military, but also the separatist forces.

And Falcon91Wolvrn03 - the person who supports the Russian state outlawing reports that describe an attack, invasion, or a declaration of war on Ukraine as dissemination of false information; and wishes the USA would pass a similar law.

Because malicious exaggeration of fact and censorship of criticism certainly sounds like truth-finding to me.


Sounds like you're upset your favorite pet Ukrainians have been outed as being mass-murdering scum, thus lending some justification - which you apparently would prefer to pretend doesn't exist - to the Russian operation.

By the way, your source for those numbers is Wikipedia, which at this point is heavily compromised and biased in favor of US MSM narratives. Which is a real shame, because it wasn't that bad when I was still a teenager (over a decade ago now.) But at this point Wikipedia is not even worth the time it would take to click on one of their links. They have sunk that low.

Yes, the Ukrainians are responsible for killing countless civilians. Yes, they would have killed many thousands more in Donbass without the Russian intervention. Even despite the Russian operation they've managed to kill over 100 civilians in Donbass within the past few weeks, 23 in a single Tochka-U ballistic missile strike armed with a cluster submunition alone. The slaughter of the Donbass people will not stop completely until Russian and DPR forces push Ukrainian forces out of artillery range of Donetsk and Luhansk.

I look forward to the day. It's coming, soon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27706964 -

In other news, apparently Azov battalion took serious losses today in Mariupol:


https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1507035736150884356?cxt=HHwWiIC-0Y7BiOopAAAA
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast
Seeing videos with large numbers of killed Ukrainian soldiers from Mariupol. People are saying that Azov took extreme casualties today. No clear picture of the situation but today may have been decisive. Will update in a few hours if there's more info.


There are pictures of the bodies on telegram.

Looks like the Ukrainian defenses in Mariupol are collapsing. Once this is completely taken a lot of troops will be freed up to press a new offensive in other directions. This is also a big ideological win for DPR and Russia, considering they will have more or less completely eliminated a very large grouping of hardcore fascists that have proven themselves as simply too violent to co-exist with the Eastern Ukrainian population.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #27706985 -

shivas.wisdom said:
It's also amusing that you criticize people here for "typically" refusing to consider anything beyond their one-sided analysis, when this is you:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:

@Stable Genius, I don't expect you to read everything I suggest, but did you read any of the accounts I posted here or is 'understanding the bigger picture' limited to Russian state apologia?


Nah I gave up as it's a pointless argument.



Bloody hell we've been over this.

If you're going to cut and paste, cut and paste the rest of the thread where I answered and said because you've twisted my words in 3 posts... and then re engaged in the bun fight!

You're quite dishonest when it comes to pointing things out, why would anyone want to bother wasting their time when you engage in stupid semantics. That's a statement not a question by the way.

You've already acknowledged Ukraine has an armed, far right, nationalist problem, go put your short hands in your long pockets and find some $ for a decent internet connection so you can have a look at the info that's being presented.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #27706996 -

shivas.wisdom said:
I hope you don't loop me into that group. One key difference here, compared to prior posts I've been critical of, is that Corbyn explains the greater context of the situation, the hypocrisy of the West, and the escalation of NATO - while still being clear that military aggression by the Russian state isn't supported, and arguing for a solution that centres the various populations of people living within Ukraine.

At the risk of repeating myself, those little acknowledgements make for a big difference.


That's exactly what I've been saying ffs!!!! Oh but you know best :puke:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #27707017 -

Kickle said:
Stable Genius said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:




That's another good video Falcon. I guess typically nobody will watch it and instead tune into the CNN war show for a completely one sided thorough analysis.

No sense letting the truth get in the road of a good story.



Not that great IMO.

16:30-17:10 -- SHOCKED by it and don't understand.

It's only shocking because of a misguided notion of how Russia's influence first rose to this level in Eastern Ukraine. The assumption in this video is that the Ukrainian people were naturally drifting towards Russia. That the government and military forces spontaneously emerged from this natural desire.


I do believe he said something like when he arrived there 8 years ago people were Russian flag waving, people speak Russian even Ukranians, that anyone born there before 1958 ARE Russian, and the people there feel they are Russian.

He also said the Ukraine armed forces are bombing civilian areas, and that those attacks have increased even though there are not Russian military in those areas.

Most other news report I've seen ad nauseum here are being reported relatively safely from places like Lviv.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707031 -

Here's one for the people who can't afford a decent internet connection with any video.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552600-diplomats-predicted-escalation-ukraine/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_campaign=push_notifications

Quote:
“Given the existence of nuclear deterrence, everyone understands the risk of a general destructive war is very easily separated from all other risks: it is easy to localize and prevent. We can see this now from the behavior of the United States and its allies, who are taking all measures against Russia short of direct intervention in the conflict. That is, they very confidently exclude from the equation a scenario that would pose a danger to themselves – they are not suicidal. But Western politicians do not care at all about how many Ukrainians must die in order for them to achieve their goals,” Bordachev said.


There are many good quotes in the article but I'm sure somebody will twist it into meaning something completely different.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707051 -

What about the Ukrainians goals ? We just pledged a billion in humanitarian aid  to help refugees . To say we don't care how many Ukrainians die seems pretty ignorant .


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707061 -

I provided a link if people wished to read the entire exchange, but I wanted to reduce clutter by not quoting half a dozen posts for a semi-personal exchange.

I also didn't think it relevant, because I thought we had settled the whole twisted words thing when we both agreed that 'the West helped lay the groundwork for this conflict', was a more reasonable assessment - and at that point, absolutely we were talking about the same thing. 

But when you were holding up John Mearsheimer's argument that "the West, especially the United States, is principally responsible for this disaster" was a worthwhile analysis - his argument is not what I'm saying, and this is why I criticized your posts at that time.

And when you uphold either chopstick or Falcon91Wolvrn03 as providing the most truthful analysis - we are not talking about the same thing.

I can stream video, it just has wait until I go to town because my cabin is in an area with low service - otherwise, it's like trying to run the modern internet on a dialup connection - very frustrating. Still, I'll put in the effort to find a transcript or preload a video if it's a discussion I'm interested in. I would hope this is obvious, by the fact that I was quoting John Mearsheimer and you agree I give a basically accurate assessment of the far-right in Ukraine. Instead of adopting the classist attitude of 'spend more money to get better internet', you can help by formulating your opinion by writing posts more than sharing video. :wink:

But let me ask you - afterwards, once we had found a compromise to your words being twisted - once we found a point of agreement - have you since taken the time to view anything I've shared?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #27707066 -

Yeah and billions in weapons to keep this stupid conflict in motion.

Russia's going to win this, Zelensky can stop this right now and what will he loose? Nato admission and a part of Ukraine that identifies itself as Russian. Big fucking deal !

But noooooo we can't have the west loosing face and Russia strengthening their own security.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27707072 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Instead of adopting the classist attitude of 'spend more money to get better internet', you can help by formulating your opinion by writing posts more than sharing video. :wink:

But let me ask you - afterwards, once we had found a compromise to your words being twisted - once we found a point of agreement - have you since taken the time to view anything I've shared?


You've said yourself you use your time to do other things other than work all day, and that's cool. I'm time poor, if you saw what I do in a day you'd understand. I can be a smart arse too you know.

And since you're choosing to be reasonable and I've taken today off to attend a funeral I'll make sure I go back and check them out.

Edited by Stable Genius (03/24/22 04:05 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707074 -

Quote:
Russia's going to win this, Zelensky can stop this right now and what will he loose?


 
  His life probably .  What will Ukrainians lose , whatever it is it must worth more than their lives .


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27707125 -

It's not even a matter of being money poor in my case - most of Canada's northern communities lack access to high speed internet; to most basic amenities, really. I couldn't upgrade without moving and although I'm here by choice, it's one of the many systemic issues in this country that end up disproportionately affecting indigenous people. Lack of access to shroomery threads isn't as troubling as lack of access to online schooling, for example.

I definitely understand that I have a lot more time to read than the average person, and it's partially why I don't expect everything I share to be read - so I'm always willing to paraphrase the contents or find an audio recording if people consider these things more accessible. The only real barrier to discussion should be 'intention to participate fairly'.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27707129 -

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
Russia's going to win this, Zelensky can stop this right now and what will he loose?


 
  His life probably .  What will Ukrainians lose , whatever it is it must worth more than their lives .


I think it's worth considering if Zelenksy even can stop it - would the Ukrainian population just accept surrender?

I know that if the USA invaded Canada, idgaf what the Prime Minister says - I'm gonna be resisting.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | | Last >

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Bush's rush to Iraq War Helping al-Qaida fft2 538 0 07/14/04 02:49 AM
by fft2
* The Irish-Iraqi War Anonymous 1,212 4 03/06/03 03:57 AM
by GazzBut
* Teen Deported For Suspected Nazi War Crimes Starter 1,235 5 12/20/03 09:33 PM
by Baby_Hitler
* Yushchenko Certain Ukraine Government Poisoned Him usefulidiot 1,022 6 12/24/04 01:29 PM
by Annapurna1
* A message from the Ukraine Krishna 733 1 11/26/04 08:53 AM
by question_for_joo
* Doctors: Ukrainian opposition leader poisoned zahudulallah 466 0 12/11/04 08:48 AM
by zahudulallah
* Arm yourself with info- 60 reasons we shouldnt be at war
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 PsiloKitten 12,397 93 11/02/13 09:08 PM
by Yogi1
* Iraq War Quiz
( 1 2 all )		 RonoS 3,172 21 03/27/03 01:51 PM
by Murex

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
415,779 topic views. 1 members, 34 guests and 39 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.039 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 16 queries.