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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27691363 -

Specifically: the ability to nuke all the shit, being the notable distinction between Russia and North Korea.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27691365 -

Quote:
Do you want another Cuban Missile Crisis? This is how you get another Cuban Missile Crisis.



The Cuban missile crisis was a product of its time. We didn’t want Soviet nuclear weapons 90 miles from US territory.  That kind of fear is irrelevant now. Russia has nuclear weapons on submarines that sit off the coast of the United States and have for decades.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27691376 -

The Ecstatic said:
Psilynut2 said:
What  did we do exactly when this coup was staged ? Was it before or after the protests and the pro Russian President fled ? What happened in Ukraine prior to this ?

  It seems like the protests started in 2013 and in Jan and feb of 2014 they were shooting protestors .
  Did we cause that ?



By all intents and purposes, yes.

Psilynut2 said:
NATO and democracy has never been a threat to the poor Russian peasants , its threat to people like Putin and his buddies .




Tell that to the Russian people who saw their life expectancy cut in HALF as a result of Western aggression and the collapse of the USSR.

It’s like saying Al Qaeda isn’t a threat to Americans in the wake of 9/11, if bin Laden had killed 50 million Americans instead of a paltry 3,000.



Life expectancy cut in half?
The drop in life expectancy that did occur was fueled by tuberculosis among prison inmates, AIDS, car accidents, and excessive rates of drinking and smoking. I guess a case could be made that Western oppression causes Russians to start drinking vodka at breakfast. Sort of. The Russian economy has little resemblance to those of industrialized countries. Talking about whether Ukraine should or shouldn't be in NATO might be a reasonable argument. Keeping Ukraine out of the EU is a way to make sure they have a shit economy too.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27691387 -

The EU is so great that the UK said fuck that shit and left.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: bukkake]
    #27691391 -

bukkake said:
koods said:
Make up your mind. Is Crimea part of Russia or Ukraine?



That's a complicated historical question, unless a person believes history in that region began less than 10 years ago.

koods said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Every war in the history of war could have been prevented by submitting to the demands of the aggressor.



Right, but I pointed out Russia's conditions for peace, which aren't super unreasonable to me and many others.  Russia doesn't even want Ukraine.  Do you think Ukraine ceasing military action is irrational, insulting, or stupid, like Kryptos does?



Why does Russia have any right to make demands of a sovereign democratic nation under the threat of destruction.

You’re gross. Just the worst kind of apologist for fascism.

You’ve been making excuses for Russian war crimes for years.



The same reason the US was able to make demands during the Cuban Missile Crisis. The same reason the US wouldn't find it acceptable to have Chinese military equipment in Mexico, Canada, or anywhere in Latin America. It'd be grand if so-called liberal democracies operated with benevolence and altruism, but they often don't. It's nice to say countries should be allowed or able to decide their own fate, but that isn't always the reality. Just because it should be so, doesn't make it so. Although it should be noted, the idea of Ukraine being a democracy is suspect.

Russia doesn't want NATO on its border, which is a reasonable demand. Russia was attacked twice by Germany in the two world wars in Ukraine. It's an area of vulnerability for the Russia state. Additionally, NATO was established as a defensive pact, but since the USSR's collapse has been operating in an aggressive, offensive capacity.

Russia would be insane to be ok with NATO positioned at its doorstep. Likewise, the US and NATO are also crazy for playing this game of chicken with Russia. Ukraine will never even become a member of NATO or the EU. The country is far too corrupt, even more corrupt than Russia, and the latter is pretty damn corrupt. Ze himself was included in the Pandora Papers leak for setting up offshore accounts. Ze is using his own people as cannon fodder in an unwinnable war with nothing for Ukraine to gain by having NATO ambitions.



Then we have to make a distinction between China putting military equipment in Latin America vs selling it to them, because they are certainly selling a shitload of it to them. And these countries obtaining them makes them less under America's thumb. They know that, as does China, and the U.S.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27691395 -

chopstick said:
The EU is so great that the UK said fuck that shit and left.



They do a good job with life expectancy.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27691411 -

The economies of Eastern European countries that are part of the EU have been transformed in less than three decades.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: bukkake]
    #27691435 -

bukkake said:
koods said:
Make up your mind. Is Crimea part of Russia or Ukraine?



That's a complicated historical question, unless a person believes history in that region began less than 10 years ago.




That question was specifically aimed at Falcon, who says crimea voted to be part of Russia, so I’m curious why he thinks the Crimean people should vote in Ukrainian elections


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27691473 -



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27691476 -

Koods suddenly cares about shelling of cities when Russia does it. Didn't care the past 20 years. More news at eleven.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27691485 -

Liar


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27691508 -

Russia's statements at the UNSC on the presence of US bioweapon labs in Ukraine.


Statement by Permanent Representative Vassily Nebenzia at UNSC briefing on biological laboratories in Ukraine
Mme.President,

Colleagues,

COVID-19 pandemic demonstrated how vulnerable humanity is in the face of biological threats. It has exacted a huge toll on us, and it continues to claim people’s lives.

When the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC) entered into force in 1975, there was hope that the world would at least be safe from manmade biological threats, because all states-signatories realized enormous risks of using biological weapons (BW) and abandoned plans to develop it.

Unfortunately, we have grounds to think that those hopes did not come true completely.

We called this meeting because during the Russian special military operation in Ukraine, some shocking facts came to light: the Kiev regime is urgently concealing traces of a military biological program that Kiev implemented with support of the US Department of Defense.

Defense Ministry of Russia got hold of documents confirming that Ukraine developed a network of at least 30 biological laboratories that host extremely dangerous biological experiments, aimed at enhancing the pathogen properties of plague, anthrax, tularemia, cholera, and other lethal diseases with the help of synthetic biology. This work is funded and directly supervised by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) of the United States, i.a. in the interests of Pentagon’s National Center for Medical Intelligence. The key role in these programs was played by a BSL-3 central reference laboratory at the Mechnikov Scientific-Research Anti-Plague Institute in Odessa, Ukraine. Research centers in other cities also played a role – Kiev, Lvov, Kharkov, Dnipro, Kherson, Ternopol, Uzhgorod, Vinnytsia. Research results were sent to US military biological centers, i.a. to U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infections Diseases, Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, US Naval Medical Research, and US Army Biological Warfare Labs in Fort Detrick that used to be the key hubs of the American biological weapons program.

All the materials are available at the website of Russian Ministry of Defense and are presented at daily briefings. Let me cite the most telling examples.

Russian military learned the details of UP-4 project which was implemented at laboratories in Kiev, Kharkov and Odessa. It studied possibilities of spreading particularly dangerous infections through migratory birds, including highly pathogenic H5N1 influenza (lethal to humans in 50 % of cases) and Newcastle disease. As part of another project, bats were considered as carriers of potential BW agents. Among the priorities identified are the study of bacterial and viral pathogens that can be transmitted from bats to humans: pathogens of plague, leptospirosis, brucellosis, as well as coronaviruses and filoviruses. Project documents clearly indicate that the United States actively financed bioprojects in Ukraine.

Besides, there were experiments to study spreading of dangerous infectious diseases by ectoparasites – fleas and lice. It is clear even to non-experts that such experiments are most reckless, as they give no opportunity to control how the situation is going to evolve. Similar research (using fleas and lice as BW agents) was carried out in the 1940s on the development of biological weapons components by the Japanese infamous unit 731, whose members later fled to the US to escape prosecution for war crimes.

Ukraine has a unique geographical location, where transcontinental migration routes of potential carriers of dangerous diseases intersect. Many of those routes pass through the territories of Russia and Eastern Europe. The research that I mentioned was done in the very midst of Eastern Europe and in close vicinity to the Russian borders. According to the data received, the birds that were ringed and released during biological research from the Kherson nature reserve, were caught in Ivanovo and Voronezh regions of Russia.

The analysis of the obtained materials confirms the transfer of more than 140 containers with ectoparasites of bats from a biolab in Kharkov abroad. We do not know anything about the fate of those dangerous biomaterials and the consequences that may occur once they “dissipate” (possibly in Europe) in the absence of any international control. In any case, risks are high that they may be stolen for terrorist purposes or to be sold at the black market.

Several thousands of samples of blood serum of COVID-19 patients (most of them of Slavic ethnicity) were transported from Ukraine to Walter Reed Army Institute of Research in the United Stated – allegedly for trials of treatment and prevention of COVID-19.

Everyone knows how sensitive Western states are when it comes to transferring biological samples of their citizens abroad. And there is a good reason for that – theoretically, samples may be used to create bioagents capable of selectively targeting different ethnic populations.

The activity of biolabs in Ukraine that we track back to 2014, and US-implemented program of so-called reform of Ukrainian healthcare system triggered uncontrolled growing incidence of dangerous and economically relevant infections in Ukraine. There is an increase in the number of cases of rubella, diphtheria, tuberculosis. Occurrence of measles has increased more than 100-fold. The World Health Organization said Ukraine runs high risks of having a polio outbreak. There is evidence that in Kharkov, where one of the labs is located, 20 Ukrainian soldiers died of swine flu in January 2016, 200 more were hospitalized. By March 2016, the total of 364 people had died of swine flu in Ukraine. Besides, outbreaks of African swine fever occur regularly in Ukraine. In 2019, there was an outbreak of a disease that had symptoms similar to plague.

While the US itself shut down military-purpose biological research on its territory due to high risks it posed to American population, the Kiev authorities actually agreed to turn their country into a biological testing site and have their citizens used as potential test subjects. Those experiments bearing potential country-scale risks continued for years. This once again proves the cynicism of Kiev’s Western patrons who keep shouting from every rooftop that they care for the fate of Ukrainians.

As reported by Reuters, WHO recommended that Ukraine should eliminate its stocks of pathogens to avoid possible leaks that might trigger disease spread among the population. It is not known for sure whether Kiev has complied.

The materials that our Defense Ministry got hold of prove that all serious high-risk research in Ukrainian biolabs was directly supervised by US experts who had diplomatic immunity. Our Defense Ministry reports that at this moment the Kiev regime, as demanded by the Western sponsors, hastily covers up all traces so that the Russian side could not get hold of direct evidence of the US and Ukraine violating Article 1 of the BTWC. They rush to shut down all biological programs. Ukraine’s Health Ministry ordered to eliminate biological agents deposited in biolabs starting from 24 February 2022. We infer from the instructions to lab personnel that the order of elimination of collections suggested that they should be destroyed irrevocably. Having analyzed the destruction certificates, we can say that the Lvov lab alone destroyed 232 containers with pathogens of leptospirosis, 30 – of tularemia, 10 – of brucellosis, 5 – of plague. The total of more than 320 containers was eliminated. Pathogens’ titles and excessive amounts give reason to think that this work was done as part of military biological programs.

Now let me make a separate address to our colleagues from Europe.

All those years, there was a site for dangerous biological tests on the doorstep of the European Union. We call to think of a real biological threat to the population of European states that may be posed by uncontrolled spread of biological agents from Ukraine. As we know from our experience with COVID-19, this cannot be stopped. Should this be the case, it will encompass the entire Europe.

US representatives get rather confused when speaking about the US involvement in biological activity on the territory of Ukraine. During hearings of the US Congress on 8 March, Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland in fact confirmed that there were biolabs in Ukraine where military-purpose biological research had been conducted. When asked by Senator Marco Rubio whether Ukraine had biological and chemical weapons, she responded that Ukraine had biological research facilities that “should not fall in the hands of Russian forces”.

At the same time, the Department of State sticks to the point that allegedly there are no US-controlled biolabs in Ukraine. Hence a question to the American delegation. How does this reconcile with 2005 Agreement between the US Department of Defense and Ukrainian Ministry of Health Concerning Cooperation in the Area of Prevention of Proliferation of Technology, Pathogens, and Expertise that could be Used in the Development of Biological Weapons? This document is available on the Internet. According to Article 3 of this agreement, the US Department of Defense may provide assistance to the Ministry of Health of Ukraine in the area of “cooperative biological research, biological threat agent detection and response” with regard to “dangerous pathogens located at the facilities in Ukraine”.

We emphasize that biological threats defy all borders. No region of the world can feel totally safe today. The United States supervises several hundreds of biolabs in 30 countries, i.a. in the Middle East, Africa, South-East Asia, and along the perimeter of former USSR. Washington does not agree to subject them to international verification. Starting from 2001, it has been impeding elaboration of a binding protocol to the BTWC that should envisage a reliable verification mechanism to monitor states’ compliance with the Convention. This cannot but make us think that the United States has something to conceal. I call on the colleagues from those regions to think of what sort of activity Washington is carrying out on their territories and what consequences it may have for the population.

We foresee the reaction of our Western colleagues who will definitely say that this information is all fake and Russian propaganda. However this sort of wishful thinking will hardly help Europeans should Ukraine and its neighboring states have outbreaks of dangerous diseases that would subsequently spread beyond their borders. This risk seems rather real if we take into account considerable interest that Ukrainian radical and nationalist groups have in research of dangerous pathogens that was conducted in Ukraine in the interests of the US Department of Defense. We have information that Pentagon instructed its Ukrainian protégés that, should any incidents occur, they should instantly accuse Russian Armed Forces who allegedly launch strikes against research and medical facilities, or blame it all on “Russian subversive teams”.

Russian Defense Ministry keeps analyzing the biological situation in Ukraine and all incoming materials. What we shared today is a small portion of information that we have. We will share the details shortly as UNSC official documents so that you could study them.

We feel obliged to keep the Security Council updated on the situation with US military-purpose biological activity in Ukraine that creates real risks for international peace and security. We intend to get back to this topic soon. We would not exclude a possibility of activating mechanisms envisaged by Articles 5 and 6 of the BTWC. For now, we would like to hear answers of the US side to the questions that we asked.

Thank you.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27691515 -

Well, those are some fucking bombshells if I've ever seen one.

Russia has confirmed they were experimenting with anthrax, pathogens of plague, leptospirosis, brucellosis, as well as coronaviruses and filoviruses.

From the looks of things it looks like some of these viruses were spread to Ukrainian soldiers, some of whom died.

Literal fucking guinea pigs.

The Pentagon should immediately suspend all bioweapons programs. Not only are they in violation of numerous agreements but they are a very serious threat to the world. If any of these pathogens are released, they would not respect any international border.

These parts are huge:

It studied possibilities of spreading particularly dangerous infections through migratory birds, including highly pathogenic H5N1 influenza (lethal to humans in 50 % of cases) and Newcastle disease. As part of another project, bats were considered as carriers of potential BW agents. Among the priorities identified are the study of bacterial and viral pathogens that can be transmitted from bats to humans: pathogens of plague, leptospirosis, brucellosis, as well as coronaviruses and filoviruses. Project documents clearly indicate that the United States actively financed bioprojects in Ukraine.

Having analyzed the destruction certificates, we can say that the Lvov lab alone destroyed 232 containers with pathogens of leptospirosis, 30 – of tularemia, 10 – of brucellosis, 5 – of plague. The total of more than 320 containers was eliminated. Pathogens’ titles and excessive amounts give reason to think that this work was done as part of military biological programs.

Jesus christ.

The US was developing biological weapons of mass destruction on Russia's doorstep.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27691528 -

Quote:
Russia claims that biological weapons are being developed in laboratories in Ukraine with support from the United States.
It says evidence is now being destroyed to conceal the country's weapons programme, but the US says this is "total nonsense" and that Russia is inventing false narratives to justify its actions in Ukraine.
We've looked into some of the claims and assess whether there's any evidence to support them.

No evidence: US funds biological weapons research in Ukraine

Russia has accused the US and Ukraine of working with "pathogens of dangerous infections" in 30 laboratories across the country. Pathogens are microorganisms that can cause disease.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/60711705.amp


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27691530 -

That makes so much sense. We run bio weapons labs on Russia’s doorstep in a politically unstable country. Jesus Christ you are gullible


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (03/11/22 08:52 PM)

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27691535 -

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
Russia claims that biological weapons are being developed in laboratories in Ukraine with support from the United States.
It says evidence is now being destroyed to conceal the country's weapons programme, but the US says this is "total nonsense" and that Russia is inventing false narratives to justify its actions in Ukraine.
We've looked into some of the claims and assess whether there's any evidence to support them.

No evidence: US funds biological weapons research in Ukraine

Russia has accused the US and Ukraine of working with "pathogens of dangerous infections" in 30 laboratories across the country. Pathogens are microorganisms that can cause disease.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/60711705.amp



Useless last-minute damage control from the usual suspects


koods said:
That makes so much sense. We run biolabs on Russia’s doorstep in a politically unstable country. Jesus Christ you are gullible



Yeah, they were and still are. There are 270 more of these such labs outside of Ukraine. You're in denial.

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27691549 -

Yeah that’s how you keep military secrets. Run your bioweapons research out of 270 labs across the world.

You have zero common sense


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: chopstick]
    #27691560 -

chopstick said:
The US was developing biological weapons of mass destruction on Russia's doorstep.



Now all you need is evidence.  When you get some, let us know.  Until then, it's just conjecture


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: Enlil]
    #27691581 -



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Official Ukraine War Thread. [Re: koods]
    #27691582 -

koods said:
Maybe that decision should be re-examined



We already went back on every other negotiation to topple the Soviets why not this one too?

Also, how is it that Putin feels he has the political capital to attack the interests of the West? I will never know.


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