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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Redo]
    #2755693 -

Forever.

For some types of relatively common elective surgeries, waits of over a year are the norm.

pinky


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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2755704 -

So why is the Canadian system better again?

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Redo]
    #2755714 -

It's not.

pinky


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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Redo]
    #2755731 -

Im afraid of socialism, so I like independant healthcare

My problem with privatized health care is that, despite its proponents' assurance that everyone still gets access to health care when privatized, the examples of privatized health care we have to look at do not show this. The US example is the one I am most familiar with. About 1 in 6 American citizens are without health insurance. Though apparently these people should have "more money" to use for paying health insurance because they don't have to pay it in taxes. I'm fairly certain that ther per-capita cost for health care in Canada is much lower than the average American spends on health care in a given year.

If that's the case...well I would rather pay LESS money in the form of taxes, than pay significantly more in the form of private insurance (or, much worse, uninsured medical bills).

I've said it before: I don't have any regrets about paying taxes. You can use the "oh well they're FORCING you to pay taxes!" excuse all you want. In the end, I enjoy the services my taxes pay for and would not give them up just to have some extra cash in my pocket.

If you don't agree with Canadian health care (and you live in Canada) then try moving to the US to see how you like their system of privatized care.

Now, I am not saying that our system is without flaw...because it isn't. Then again, no human designed system is without flaw. There is much that can be done to improve our health care system! That doesn't mean we should just scrap the whole thing, though.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2755734 -

My bad! Mulroney was still a disaster :smirk:

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755735 -

Is it worth the long waits for any kind of medical attention trendal??? Private insurance may be a motivating factor to work instead of live off the system should it not?

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2755741 -

For some types of relatively common elective surgeries, waits of over a year are the norm.

Can I see some proof on that one? Without you trying to pull out the "well you are too young to have come accross this yet" excuse! I have not come accross this "over a year" wait, ever, nor do I know anyone (of any age) who has had to wait such time for health care they need.

What exactly are you defining "elective" surgery as?

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Redo]
    #2755745 -

Is it worth the long waits for any kind of medical attention trendal?

I'm not sure where Pinky gets this "over a year" waits being "the norm". I have never waited for health care here. Unless you count a couple hours in a waiting room...usually while people with more serious conditions are seen to first. Nor have I ever met a Canadian who has had to wait for health care that they need. When you walk into a hospital here, there is usually a LARGE sign on the wall stating that "patients will be seen in order of need, not the order you arrive in". If you can't wait a couple hours to have a doc look at your sore throat or sprained ankle while they see to the people who need immediate care...

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755748 -

Let me ask my fellow Canadians: do you have, or know anyone who has, a story about having to wait a year for health care here?

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Redo]
    #2755750 -

Private insurance may be a motivating factor to work instead of live off the system should it not?

I'm not sure where that came from...but I certainly don't use our health care system as an excuse to stop working just because I'll still get health care. Rather, I see it as an excellent safety net in the case that I lose my job. In such a case, I don't have to worry about paying my health care bills...because they are already paid for.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755755 -

You may not, but down here the leeches are rampit. We dont live with much honesty down here, our current aid system is abused as it is, and the number of people using it is not big. If we gave universal health care our taxes would be enormous, and they would end up nailing the rich people with the blunt end.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Redo]
    #2755773 -

After looking into it a little more, it looks like the average wait for "non-emergency" surgery in Canada is 3-4 months. I would like to see that vastly reduced, of course, but not by throwing out our current system completely.

Also, remember that even if you wait 3-4 months for care...at least you are guaranteed to get it reguardless of your financial situation.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755785 -

Does non-emergency include cancer related surguries?

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755789 -

Nobody in my family has waited anywhere near a year for treatment.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Redo]
    #2755792 -

Cancer treatment is the shortest wait, about 5 weeks for chemo and 8 weeks for radiation therapy.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755850 -

trendal said:
Cancer treatment is the shortest wait, about 5 weeks for chemo and 8 weeks for radiation therapy.


Every person I know that has cancer here in the US has started treatment within days. I wouldn't want to wait weeks for cancer treatments.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755995 -

I refer to elective surgery -- i.e. hip replacement, knee replacement, varicose vein stripping, etc.

I personally waited five months to have a sebaceous cyst removed (not life-threatening by any means, just unsightly and uncomfortable), and even then it was only that short a wait because of a cancellation. I was called the morning of the cancellation and was able to take off work that day to take advantage of the opening. My mother's best friend waited fourteen months for her hip replacement surgery. That was last year.

Agreed, these procedures are not emergency surgery.

But when I was first diagnosed as having cluster headaches, it took two and a half months for me to get a CAT scan. It would have taken longer to get an MRI. The thing is, many of the symptoms of cluster headaches are identical to those caused by aneurysms and/or brain tumors. My doc was pretty sure I had cluster headaches, but he did say I should have the CAT scan and the MRI to rule out tumors. I took the CAT scan, passed on the MRI because I just didn't feel like waiting that long. What if it had really been an aneurysm after all? Or a brain tumor? Some of them will kill you in a lot less time than two and a half months.

I could walk into any number of clinics in Philadelphia and get an MRI done the same day. That's not me making stuff up, Trendal, that's stone cold fact.

Here's more stone cold fact -- US towns and cities within a hundred miles of the Canadian border have a much higher per capita representation of medical services than the US as a whole. The simple reason for this is they do a very significant business serving Canadian patients. Canadians "border-hop" not just to buy cheaper US goods like computers and consumer electronics (and even groceries), but also to get proper health care. Again, I am not making this up.

pinky


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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2756000 -

trendal writes:

About 1 in 6 American citizens are without health insurance.

Correct. And a lot (perhaps most) choose not to pay it. For example, I myself am without health insurance. I could afford to buy a damn good plan, but I choose not to. I'm healthy as a horse, and I'd rather reserve the few thousand a year I'd spend on health insurance for other things. I may not feel that way ten years from now, but in the three decades-plus that I have been paying my own way in the world, not paying any health insurance premiums has added up to a lot of coin. Same with life insurance -- I don't have any of that either.

pinky


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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2756946 -

I think this, once again, just comes down to our difference in thoughts on taxes :smirk:

I don't mind paying for my fellow humans to receive health care, because I know they are paying for me to receive health care just the same. I would rather have universal health care that EVERYONE has access to, than to have health care that only some can afford - and thus only some have access to.

As you pointed out, pinky, if a Canadian wants immediate health care and can afford it...he can just take a trip down to the US and buy it himself :wink:

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2757689 -

So I guess it comes down to an ideal socialist vs an ideal capitalist society.

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