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OfflinePedM
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The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election
    #2828897 - 06/25/04 08:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

OTTAWA -- (REUTERS) June 25th, 2004.  The Conservative Party of Canada announced today that the party will change it's identity a second time.  After the recent merger between the Canadian Alliance and the widely known "PC" (Progressive Conservative) party, Stephen Harper announced at today's election conference that the right-wing group would be known after the election as the "BDP", an ear-catching name Stephen Harper hopes will compete with Canada's fastest growing left-wing political party, the NDP (New Democratic Party).

When asked what the acronym represented, Conservative leader Stephen Harper's jowels began to froth, producing an overwhelmingly foul stench which caused several of our reporters to wretch violently, their innards corroding into a disgusting soup.  "The Black DEATH Party of Canada!" he said through clenched, blood-soaked fangs.  "We will turn your crops to POISON!  Your schools to DUNGEONS; your FAMILIES TO DUST!"  Several bystanders were injured when Mr. Harper's leathery wings exploded in a flurry of laughter and screeching obscenities.  It was not the first outburst of the sort to occur along Mr. Harper's campaign trail.  When asked why he insists on promoting the decay of Canadian society into one of hatred, greed, and rampant sex abuse, Mr. Harper's eyes rolled backward as he said "The Age of Darkness Descends.  Ave Satanas, Hail Satan, Hail Satan."

Despite his unorthodox and Satanic ways, however, Mr. Haper's Conservative party remains strong in these final days before the vote.

:tongue2:  :crazy2:

I'm surprised there has been no discussion about Canada's election here.  Did I miss something?  Let's talk about it!


--------------------------------

http://www.ndp.ca/


Edited by Ped (06/25/04 08:45 PM)


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OfflineJust a Punk
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2828902 - 06/25/04 08:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hah!


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:B


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OfflineZahid
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2829024 - 06/25/04 10:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well, it looks like Harper might win. Alot of people think it has to do with his calm and collected public persona, where Paul Martin tends to fidget alot like George Tenet.

and the NDP, well they spend too much, and have no hope of winning. I like Jack Layton and the NDP, especially since his interview on Much Music when asked if he ever smoked pot, but right now their potential is influence in parliament. In an election that comes down to a possible Conservative government in Canada.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Zahid]
    #2829153 - 06/25/04 11:20 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

in a way, I hope Harper does win, for a few reasons.

1- if he does win, he will only have the support of maybe...20% of the voters.

2- this will galavanize all those opposed to his political policies

3- consequently, Canadians will be mobalized to get of their apathetic, comfortable asses and fight for what they believe in.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2829174 - 06/25/04 11:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

He could also do a lot of damage in the next 5 years (or however long he could hold onto being PM) :wink:

I've made up my mind at this point: I'm voting NDP.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2829209 - 06/25/04 11:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

aye, NDP for me too.


If the conservatives win a minority government it won't last long, so yeah. Not too much too fear hopefully.


--------------------
"Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #2829239 - 06/25/04 11:57 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Id like to vote for the NDP but Layton has alot of dirty business and union ties, and the unions in Canada are beyond out of control. And the NDP are idiots when it comes to fiscal management.

Id like to vote for green, but their economic policies are beyond stupid.

the conservatives....no chance, of course.

So then it comes down to the liberals, who seem like the best choice all around. Im still undecided, right now its 50/50 NDP or Liberal.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2829592 - 06/26/04 02:46 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

IM going NDP.

i think that a conservative government will basically erase the broder and fuck every free or cheap public service. Did anyone actually watch them before this election? They are so pro bush its scary. Found it funny looking at the stats for vancouver island. When peopel voted out mulrony they all voted ndp here. The next election they went right back to reform, refom, alliance. Have we learned anything?

I cant stand canadas way of voting. Can anyone please vote for who you think can do the job? Seriously, how the fuck is voting for ANY party that looks like it will win just to get the party we currently hate out? Thats just fucking moronic, then we get a bunch of gordon campbells in and fuck us all over while we watch and bitch. The worst part is if any cared to take the time and read a little bit about these guys they would have known damn well what his agenda was. ARGG makes me so pissed to see peolep do that then bitch cause they dont like it. BAH!

Every vote does count, especially if you vote for someone who you think can do the job. Nuff of this protest voting bullshit.

i need a joint. God damnit!


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: kadakuda]
    #2829647 - 06/26/04 03:12 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

yeah go NDP they dont want us to put any more money into defense, and they support gay marriage.

Two rather trivial points, but overall i like their platform.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2829703 - 06/26/04 03:52 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

ummm, actually they do want to increase defense spending. Which is a good thing.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2829729 - 06/26/04 04:24 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yep. It's a good thing. There's no sense in spending any time or money on building a more compassionate society concerned with the benefit of the whole. What we really need are more guns, bigger business and lots more stuff to decorate my house.

--------------------------------

http://www.ndp.ca/


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2829848 - 06/26/04 05:41 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

so why the fuck are you voting NDP then???

-you are aware that they plan to increase military spending, yes?

god....I swear......this is the problem with democracy.


Edited by Positronius (06/26/04 06:27 AM)


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2829855 - 06/26/04 05:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

note the sarcasm. it was a crack at the conservs.

plus its really only a partial democracy. We only vote in the mouth peices for the people who have the real power. Get ur tin foil hats and raid the senate!!! YEEEHAAAA


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2830027 - 06/26/04 09:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Positronius writes:

Id like to vote for the NDP but Layton has alot of dirty business and union ties, and the unions in Canada are beyond out of control. And the NDP are idiots when it comes to fiscal management.

I see you are given to understatement.

A majority NDP government would be the most disastrous possible scenario for Canada. That poor sad sack of a country is still trying to make up for the destruction caused by the NDP holding the reigns of power in Ontario for five years in the Nineties.

Second worst-case scenario would be where the NDP and Liberals combined (doesn't matter which of them has more seats) outnumbered the Conservatives.

Best case scenario would be a Conservative majority government, but even then it must be remembered that the Conservative Party of Canada is several degrees to the left of US Democrats.

Even though I left Canada over sixteen years ago I have friends and family there, and I usually travel there (to Ottawa) in the spring and fall for three or four weeks at a stretch, so I do still care about Canada's future.

I don't know which parties are on the ballot in my old riding (Ottawa West) for this election, but if there weren't a Libertarian-style candidate on the ballot, I would do as I did when I still lived there -- I would tell the scrutineers "I decline to vote" and make certain this choice was properly recorded on the electoral sheet.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2830038 - 06/26/04 09:58 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Positronius writes:

3- consequently, Canadians will be mobalized to get of their apathetic, comfortable asses and fight for what they believe in.

Sadly, what far too many Canadians believe in is cradle-to-grave coddling, with the government in the role of Mommy-Daddy-Nanny-Santa Claus.

"Someone said something that offended me! Pass a law!"

"The company I worked for went bankrupt! Pay me not to work for the rest of my life!"

"The shop across the street from mine has their sign in English! Fine their ass or shut them down!"

"I have a cold, but when I went to the emergency room I had to wait four hours before someone looked after me for free! Raise taxes on the rich corporations so I only have to wait an hour next time!"

There is no hope for Canada.

pinky


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2830366 - 06/26/04 12:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

>> you are aware that they plan to increase military spending, yes?

Nowhere in the NDP platform is it said that Jack Layton has plans to increase military spending. That is Stephen Harper's trip.

The NDP Platform is found here.


>> Best case scenario would be a Conservative majority government.

Brian Mulroney.


>> I have a cold, but when I went to the emergency room I had to wait four hours before someone looked after me for free!

There are people who've come into the Foothills Hospital (where I used to work as a volunteer) with broken limbs who have had to wait upwards of 10 hours to get treatment. People who are in vital need of CT or PET scans wait upwards of two years to gain access to those services. That's two years that cancer might be allowed to develop while the question of operability remains unanswered. You know how they say that our best chance with cancer is to catch it early?

Treatment is not free. There are health care premiums to be paid every month in Alberta. They can exceed upwards of $300 per month. Four of Calgary's twelve hospitals were torn down in the past decade beacuse of health care cuts. Often, sick people have to wait outside the building because the emergency room is filled to the parking lot. The health care problem in Canada is very real. Belittling the health care problem in Canada detracts from your credibility.

Stephen Harper wants to further reduce the federal contribution to public health care, while encouraging the formation of a private sector which will ensure that only the rich have access to quality medical services. Paul Martin wants to increase the federal share by a marginal 4% (up from the currently abhorrently low 16%), and he probably won't actually do it anyway.

The top issue in Canada's election this year is health care. One of the most pressing issues in the United States' upcoming two-party election has to do with whether or not the current president deceived the American people, and attempted to deceive the United Nations, so as to capitilize on an unnecessary, illegal war of malfeasance. Considering this, ask again: which nation is it that has "no hope"?

To be honest, I'd rather my country's politics be bogged down by silly, namby pamby issues like what language is printed on which signs. At least I don't have to worry about innocent civilians being burned alive in the process. As far as I know, the Liberal sponsorship scandal claimed the lives of no one. Stephen Harper, however, wants to train more young Canadians to be killers in America's ill-conceived wars.


--------------------------------

http://www.ndp.ca/


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2830467 - 06/26/04 01:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ped writes:

People who are in vital need of CT or PET scans wait upwards of two years to gain access to those services. That's two years that cancer might be allowed to develop while the question of operability remains unanswered. You know how they say that our best chance with cancer is to catch it early?

You make my point for me. Thank you.

I bumped an earlier thread about the election for your review. I won't repeat all the comments I made about socialized medicine in that thread in this one -- you can read the thread at your leisure.

The health care problem in Canada is very real.

No one knows that better than I. The point is that it is as atrocious as it is because it is socialized medicine. Health care is an issue far too important to entrust to government. Yet not a single Canadian political party wants to change it. They just want to charge even more for it.

Belittling the health care problem in Canada detracts from your credibility.

I don't belittle it, I point out the same thing that study after study has done for decades now. It is an abominable system that cannot be fixed because the underlying principle behind it is so deeply flawed that no amount of tinkering can possibly fix it.

Stephen Harper wants to further reduce the federal contribution to public health care, while encouraging the formation of a private sector which will ensure that only the rich have access to quality medical services.

Only the "rich"? How does one define "rich" in Canada? In a thread not all that long ago (titled "Happy Tax Freedom Day!", if I recall correctly) I pointed out that the average unmarried Canadian living in Ontario who earns the staggering sum of US$18,000 annually had his "tax freedom day" a few days ago this year -- June 24. When people making that little money pay over half their income to the government, it's no wonder there aren't enough people in Canada "rich" enough to pay for normal medical tests.

Look, every now and then I will visit a doctor on one of my frequent trips to Canada. I pay him for the visit, the same as any other visitor to Canada would. But what do I get for my money? At best, a rushed three minute "consultation" with seven other patients perched in other cubicles in his office waiting for his time. Some of those patients made their appointments months ahead of time.

Or, I can hop across the border to Syracuse, pick a physician's name almost at random out of the phone book, and for roughly twenty to thirty per cent more cash get a thorough exam, test results the next day, and at least fifteen minutes (and sometimes double that) of discussion and advice.

The top issue in Canada's election this year is health care.

Too bad none of those proposing "solutions" for the Canadian health care morass have the slightest grasp of the basic laws of economics.

To be honest, I'd rather my country's politics be bogged down by silly, namby pamby issues like what language is printed on which signs.

Why does it have to be either-or? I'll tell you why -- because the ingrained Canadian ethos for at least the last four decades has been that government knows best. Waaaaay too many Canadians are sheep, and Canadian politicians are their shearers.

pinky


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2830931 - 06/26/04 03:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

>> It is an abominable system that cannot be fixed because the underlying principle behind it is so deeply flawed that no amount of tinkering can possibly fix it

I'm sorry for suggesting you were belittling the problem. What more do you understand about our health care system and it's problems? Why do you consider other systems. I'm interested in knowing your view a bit more deeply.

Thank you for bumping the other thread, btw.


--------------------------------

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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ped]
    #2831176 - 06/26/04 05:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

from the NDP website:

- Jack Layton and Canada?s NDP say it?s time to recognize the world is changing and that the new world requires an investment in people, including Canadian Armed Forces personnel

- Supporting safe helicopters for the Canadian Armed Forces.

- Separating the Coast Guard from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, with increased funding to enforce international and national rules, but also to prevent drug interdiction and illegal immigration

-Increasing the salaries and improving housing for members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

-reallocating savings to invest in reserve and regular personnel and better training and equipment so that they can carry out Canada?s vital peacekeeping and peacemaking roles

-Ensuring Canada plays a leading role with like-minded nations in working for peace and justice in the Middle East

-Increasing security provisions at remote airports.

-Launching a full review of Canadian national defence to determine what armed forces for Canada in the 21st century should be and what resources are needed, balancing our traditional peacekeeping and peacemaking focus with the need to have a truly independent foreign policy.

----okay, ped, read between the lines, and...maybe you should have watched the debate. The NDP has said numerous times that they wish to increase military spending. ALL SOVERIEGN NATIONS NEED A MILITARY!!!!!

The NDP want Canada to be more soveriegn and independent from the US, which I agree with, this will require increased military spending.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The Upcoming Canadian Federal Election [Re: Positronius]
    #2831196 - 06/26/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Some other points from the NDP platform which I particularly like:

-Cancelling offensive, expensive and unnecessary weapons systems for the Canadian Armed Forces, reducing the DND bureaucracy, and reallocating savings to invest in reserve and regular personnel and better training and equipment so that they can carry out Canada?s vital peacekeeping and peacemaking roles.

-Scrapping the draconian Anti-Terrorism Act, which has already impeded media freedom in Canada, and replacing it with legislation that respects civil liberties, ethnic communities and freedom of the press.

-Opposing the introduction of a national identity card, which endangers the privacy rights of every Canadian.

-Continuing work in multilateral arms reduction treaties to reduce and eventually eliminate chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, which are safe in no one?s hands.

-Firmly opposing any Canadian participation in the grossly expensive Star Wars missile defence scheme, which will result in the weaponizing of space and does nothing to protect us from terrorism, and promoting the proposed Space Preservation Treaty.

-Making peacekeeping and peacemaking operations under UN auspices the priority for Canadian Armed Forces operations overseas and working with similar nations to co-operate in organizations that take a holistic approach to security issues.

-Working with progressive legislators in other countries to replace undemocratic, corporate-driven trade deals like NAFTA and the WTO with agreements based on the principles of fair and equitable trade, which respect fair wages and working conditions, human rights, the environment and communities? right to develop in accordance with their values.

-Working to strengthen the United Nations and regional security bodies such as the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), as an alternative to the US-dominated bodies of NATO and NORAD, particularly in light of NATO?s refusal to renounce the first use of nuclear weapons and the likely location of Star Wars-NMD coordination at NORAD headquarters.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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