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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Therapy]
    #2747144 -

I'm voting NDP because Jack Layton refered to marijuana as a "wonderful substance."

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2747152 -

Mark Emory was talking, last year, about the possibility of merging the Green party with the NDP.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2747332 -

Marc Emery's for the BC Marijuana Party, not Green Party. But yeah, he's already said to vote NDP instead, due to their already stable popularity. He even did a commercial with Jack Layton for Pot-TV, the same one Mixomatosis is talking about.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: deff]
    #2747627 -

My bad, the BC Marijuana Party was what I meant.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2749731 -

The conservative party is drumming up most of their votes based on the idea that the west is alienated by the federal liberals, which may or may not be true.

Voting for them means: more of a push towards privatized health care, and other social programs, and increased military spending, plus tax breaks for companies and all that jazz. I heard Harper on the radio today saying that spending money on our military is what Canadians want and need. Why do we need it? So we can send troops into Iraq? Who are we at war with?

A lot of people complain that the NDP would be increasing their taxes, but if you look at their platform, the tax increases are for corporations, and people making over $250,000 a year. Quite frankly, those making over $250,000 a year aren't going to suffer a whole lot. Steven Harper isn't the hardcore Christian, that was Stockwell Day, Harper has quite cautiously kept his religion to himself.

The conservatives are also opposed to gay marriage, marijuana decrim/legalization.

The liberals are probably not nearly as bad as they're made out to be. I'd be suprised if there was a single government in Canada's, or any country's history that didn't have something as fishy as that going on... the only difference is they got caught. They still have a significant chance of winning the next election, probably a better one than the tories. The whole ad scandal backlash is more of an attempt to win votes than an attempt at justice, I'm not buying into the hype and voting on some piddly little thing like that, I'm a little more concerned with how the country will actually be run, and the conservatives are definately not in support of the kind of Canada I'd like to see. The liberals aren't really in support of that, either. They're the ones who have been slashing away at health care and other social programs, slowly, over time.

I still think that the NDP is the best bet, I'd love to see them win a few more seats, they seem to have a much more powerful support base than last election. We used to have one of the best health care systems in the world, until we continually cut away at the funding. If we want to see our health care improve, the best way is NOT to start privatizing it. We'll end up with all kinds of shitty american style HMOs, and there will remain a significant portion of the population that is completely uninsured. Legalize marijuana, tax it, tax large corporations, and tax people who are making large amounts of money, and you will be able to fund social programs like health care and education. This tax money will also be used to fund post-secondary education, making university education more affordable. I know quite a few people attending university right now, and I even know a few who are paying for it all themselves, working part time (in some cases even full time) jobs just to be able to make it through. They have absolutely no time to enjoy themselves, and are surviving on very small amounts of sleep. These are hardcore type A personalities... the average person would definately not be able to do this, which probably explains why the average university student comes from a well off family.

Nothing against the green party, but I can't really imagine them doing a better job than the NDP. Their platform seems to be more of a list of ideals than any actual plan of action. I'm definately going with the NDP.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phluck]
    #2749887 -

:laugh: I'd love to see NDP win... somehow...

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phluck]
    #2750031 -

I'm definately going with the NDP.

After reading some more of their policies, I think I'm right behind you on that one :wink:

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2750655 -

It would be beneficial to throw your support to the NDP.

Canada needs another party that would have a decent shot at power, otherwise, it'll end up like the US system with the democrats and republicans.


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The Haves have not a fucking clue!
-Vedder, PJ

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Therapy]
    #2750771 -

I think the only problem with the NDP's is lack of public awareness. Most people are not aware of their policies and tend to think they're all about raising taxes and social services. For this reason, most people don't take them as seriously as the "big two", and they lose out on votes. I think if everyone was fully aware of their policies, the results would be much different.

So, basically whenever a political discussion is brought up, I throw in some NDP information and it surprises me how little people know about the party compared to the Liberals and Conservatives. I know it's not much to offer, and probably won't sway many votes, but just try to spread the NDP word with any accepting person and let them make a more informed decison :laugh:

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: deff]
    #2751032 -

legalize pot. and everyones ears perk up and say ill vote for them. haha. jk. i really never followed politics as i figured they all suck. but i have been seeking out knowledge because it is our future. :smile:


peace


--------------------
And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"

Edited by the man (06/01/04 01:29 AM)

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phluck]
    #2752340 -

An NDP majority government would be an unmitigated economic disaster for Canada -- the final nail in the coffin required to cause its total economic collapse. Second-worst-case scenario would be an NDP minority government with the Liberals having more seats than the Conservatives and Alliance combined.

It is plain that the Canadians posting here are still quite young (my guess is none of you has hit twenty-five years old yet) as it seems none of you recall the complete meltdown the NDP engineered of Ontario's economy when they held power for five years back in the late Eighties. The NDP's appalling display of refusing to recognize reality should give pause to anyone even giving a passing thought to voting NDP today. A more object lesson of the effects of disastrous policies is impossible to find anywhere in Canadian history.

As for Canada once having had what was considered to be the best health care system in the world -- if that was ever true, it certainly hasn't been true for over a decade at the very least and probably closer to two decades. The simple truth is that single-tier socialized medicine is one of the most hare-brained schemes ever devised by humans and is doomed to failure no matter which country implements it. The more wealthy a country is at the initial implementation of the program the longer it will take to finally collapse, but collapse is inevitable. See France's problems as yet another example. For that matter, look at Germany, Italy, Sweden, and -- of course -- England's National Health.

If you want to see health care improve, the solution is to exclude government from it. The less government involvement you have, the better your product is. This is especially true of health care.

As for people complaining the NDP will increase taxes, of course they will. It's their Raison d'etre. What no one ever seems to grasp is that increasing taxes on corporations hurts everyone. Jobs are lost, cost of living increases, investment falls. For proof of this, review the record of the Ontario economy when the NDP held power.

Whenever I return to Canada for a visit (every six months or so) I spend an hour or two every day reading Canadian newspapers and magazines and another hour watching the news on TV. The amount of nonsense going on in that country is staggering, and seems to increase every year. When I left Canada to live in the Dominican Republic in 1988 I was fed up to my eyeballs with the insane amount of government interference in the daily lives of Canadians. I decided I was simply not going to put up with it any longer, so I voted with my feet. Yet compared to the situation today, life in Canada back then was a cakewalk. Things aren't perfect in my little third world banana republic, that's for sure, and I'll admit there have been a few times when the situation was especially frustrating here that I have contemplated heading back to Canada for a while. But all I have to do is log on to a Canadian news site, read a week's worth of the goings-on there, and the urge vanishes.

I sympathize with you Canadians, I really do. The country is doomed no matter which party you vote for. But at least by keeping the NDP as far from the reins of power as you possibly can the collapse will take longer.

pinky


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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2753047 -

The less government involvement you have, the better your product is.

Is it better to have the most cutting-edge health care possible available to only those with the money to pay for it...or to have at least an adequate health care available to everyone?

Though I know I will never change your mind on this one, pinky. I think we've argued this topic before, and I'm pretty sure we've been at opposite ends of the argument as long as I've known you :smirk:

Well you're right, I'm not 25 yet (23) but you are wrong about us not remembering the NDP desaster about 15 years ago. We all learned to curse the name Brian Mulroney, most of us before we knew the first thing about politics. Their little stint is the reason I have never voted NDP before. None the less, I find myself more aligned with their policies than those of the Liberals these days. I will never vote Conservative in a federal election (though I'll admit I voted for Mike Harris in the provincial election a few years back) and especially not now that they have merged with the dreadful Canadian Alliance.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2753930 -

Quote:
Is it better to have the most cutting-edge health care possible available to only those with the money to pay for it...or to have at least an adequate health care available to everyone?


The "most cutting-edge health care possible" is ACCESSIBLE to those who can afford it but it is AVAILABLE to everyone. If Canada ended their bloated government-run healthcare system today, people would have a significantly larger amount of money in their pockets to pursue the healthcare plan of their choice. Competition would insure that even the relatively cheaper private healthcare systems available would be 'adequate' at worst. The increase in money would, of course, also almost definitely lead to an increase in charity which would help those on the extreme bottom tier of the economy in getting some kind of treatment when problems arise.

Regardless of the clear economic benefits, government should plain and simple not be forcing me to help you or initiating ANY force for that matter. I do not know enough of Canada's constitution acts to pass judgment on whether or not the government of Canada is authorized to initiate force in this manner, but it is wrong regardless.

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2755490 -

The "most cutting-edge health care possible" is ACCESSIBLE to those who can afford it but it is AVAILABLE to everyone. If Canada ended their bloated government-run healthcare system today, people would have a significantly larger amount of money in their pockets to pursue the healthcare plan of their choice. Competition would insure that even the relatively cheaper private healthcare systems available would be 'adequate' at worst. The increase in money would, of course, also almost definitely lead to an increase in charity which would help those on the extreme bottom tier of the economy in getting some kind of treatment when problems arise.

Is that how things work down in the US?

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755515 -

Im afraid of socialism, so I like independant healthcare :smile:

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755530 -

It must be nice having more than two people to vote for.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: monoamine]
    #2755539 -

You can vote for whoever you want monoamine. Vote for yourself...

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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755642 -

Brian Mulroney was a conservative PM, not an NDP provincial premier.

I was referring to Bob Rae's five years in power of Canada's most populous and wealthiest province -- Ontario -- from 1990 to 1995. Sorry for saying earlier it was the late Eighties -- it was actually the early Nineties.

pinky


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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: trendal]
    #2755685 -

Trendal writes:

Is it better to have the most cutting-edge health care possible available to only those with the money to pay for it...or to have at least an adequate health care available to everyone?

The two are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible to purchase adequate health insurance in the US for less than what the Canadian government steals from Canadians to pay for abysmal health coverage. In fact, it is possible to buy excellent health insurance for about the same price. Ask Evolving about this.

As for "cutting edge" -- there's nothing cutting edge about hip replacement surgery, or CAT scanners or MRI machines. The city of Philadelphia has more MRI machines than the entire country of Canada. I am not making that up, by the way, that is a fact.

pinky


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Re: Canadian Federal Election [Re: Phred]
    #2755687 -

How long do you have to wait in Canada for medical assistance?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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