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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: longbus] * 1
    #27450460 -

longbus said:
Ima Trooper said:
longbus said:
Hey guys, can we all just get along and love each other? <3


No. Get fucked.


Reported.


Good. Get fucked again. Get fucked right in the mouth, you ignorant snowflake snitch.


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
    #27450461 -

budmanman said:
No head fog? Head fog seems to be the most common.

Quite a few people after the 2nd shot have had to miss 3-5 days of work. I don't know specifically why but each one of them locked them selves away for that period and never described in detail of why other than they were sick feeling.


It's to cover up The Changing


--------------------
"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27450462 -

@Enkidu I didn't read the article yet, but the vaccines don't seem to reduce the ability of an infected person to transmit the virus, with the delta variant at least (not sure about the others), but they do reduce overall transmission.

The vaccines are pretty effective at preventing infection (the percent varies) in the first place, and you'll be sick and therefore an active spreader for less time, so that's how they slow transmission overall and benefit those around you.

I was vaccine hesitant most of my life. In undergrad I even said I was from some sect of buddhism or something to claim a religious exemption, although looking back now the funny part was that I didn't realize I was actually already fully vaccinated from childhood. My program required a flu vaccine and I found an easy way to get one on my medical records without getting the shot.

I had a lot of the same reservations as you, but mostly was just paranoid/afraid, kind of lazy, and thought I knew better than others.

I remember my appointment to get my religious exemption the staff made me wait forever and the nurse/doctor I was going over paperwork with were treating me like shit. One of my professors would lecture us at the the start of class during flu season about how important the shot was. I kind of used this as even more fuel for my paranoia, thinking "wtf do these people get paid to push these things?"

Now that I have a much better understanding of the science I realize that these people were just far better educated on the subject than I was. They had more access to the data, and were better at interpreting it. They knew a lot more about the dangers (to myself and society) of going unvaccinated. They worked in hospitals and saw the painful/harsh reality of death and disease daily. The medical staff at my school were just fed up from hearing the same flawed anti-vax arguments everyday and watching people abuse the system.

I don't think anything would have changed my mind back then, I was sure I was right and lots of blogs and youtube videos on the internet were telling me so. Even after taking a course on infectious disease I still wasn't convinced... it was more a cumulation of getting better with research/statistics while also studying biology and physiology that made me "get it". It's really all pretty obvious when you get there, and I'm genuinely embarrassed about some things I said/did in the past in regards to vaccines.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27450467 -

Pearls before swine.

If you want any hope of getting through to these people, you have to find ways to be succinct. Koods is exemplary at this, alleged sociopathy or no.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27450494 -

Koods tactics are stupid if the intended outcome is conveying information and getting people to do what he wants.

That's obvious

Appreciate the response feevers, again hitting me with a quality rebuttle

There is a lot of good points made by those for the vax, and data to support their reasoning

I envy anyone who had an easy time making the decision on whether to get the vax or not

Still can't say I trust it fully.

Basically that link showed 75% of the people in that group who were infected were fully vaccinated.

But it also showed that the severity of symptoms seemed to be drastically reduced compared to non vaccinated, which imo shows potential the vaccine is in fact working as intended. Feevers again mentioned aspects of it as far as transmission I wasn't aware of.

Unlike some people I like to have good data and longer term studies and research on the effect of things before taking them.

The covid vaccine is still very new regardless of if you believe it to be or not and data is still being gathered on its effectiveness and in particular it's effectiveness after around 260 days or so and against variants


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #27450508 -

budmanman said:
feevers said:
budmanman said:
Ima Trooper said:
Like, I get that longbus and budmann and other anti-vaxxers in this thread might have mitigating attributes, but I since this is all I see of them, as well as espousing other ideals I don't agree with, it makes it very easy to discount their existence entirely. Like if I REALLY thought about it, I supposed I'd be sad if they died. But on the other hand, maybe not.

My friend isn't "anti-vaxx", and he's also very intelligent otherwise, but something about this PARTICULAR vaccine/pandemic has everyone going stupid and saying the other side are fucking idiots. And yes, I do the same thing. There's just no fixing it. People have separated too far.


Why would I die? I already had the virus and it was pathetic. You cough a lil unless there is something wrong with you that evolution doesn't desire to be in the population any longer.


Aren't you the one that lost your taste/smell then started freaking out thinking you had fluoride poisoning or a brain tumor or something?


I did lose it I was doing kratom a bit frequently at the time, I stopped for a few months it all came back, any time I do kratom my body oder changes again and my taste gets weird so at this point I am concluding that it is in fact a reaction I am having from the kratom and not covid.


Bahahahah. Can someone do something about doctor mario over here. Your making the PNW look bad you dinglew.


[
Ima Trooper said:
longbus said:
Ima Trooper said:
longbus said:
Hey guys, can we all just get along and love each other? <3


No. Get fucked.


Reported.


Good. Get fucked again. Get fucked right in the mouth, you ignorant snowflake snitch.


Baaaaahhaha. I love the snowflakr. Usually its me. But furreal snitchin and shittttttttt



I think these "anti" guys thinking their oppinion not only has substance or relevance is funny enough.
But then to come here and try "debate" some shit. Like the only thing you drbating, my mofko, is how hard you smacking your meat tonight, firreal.

Everyone doing the mask and vaccine blahblah-
MAKING A PROVEABLE DIFFERENCE.

Even if its just a cold some people are dying from, thise people are being saved because of vaccine and and practice. Prevention. Even if you think your fine, even if you think it was made in a lab, someone is benefiting.


Everyone not doing the mask and vaccine-
:69::3some::crazy2: :69::3some::crazy2::69::3some::crazy2::69::3some::crazy2::69::3some::crazy2::69::3some::crazy2::69::3some::crazy2::69::3some::crazy2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27450517 -

trees said:
My most honest stance is that i dont know shit about vaccines, i dont think anyone knows the full correct answer and given the choice id rather not take a shot, but since my entire family went ahead took it, if the vax kills them all i wouldnt want to be the only one alive, ill die with them, that was my rationale to go and get it, and doing so also pacified any potential tension between us about it. Plus i saw the tiny 2cc's of (as far as i could tell was just) water go into my arm and i had zero side effects so by this point, i dont give a fuck whats going on anymore, i get to live my life without people getting pissed at me for faith based reasons and i also get to enjoy being on the hyopthetical good guy side regardless of how valid that actually is


It's 0.5cc's. glad you got the vaccine.



@Enkido
If you're around other people, particularly unvaccinated people like your friends/family, then you're a serious risk for spreading the virus in an uncontrolled manner. Covid is way more infectious that most viruses people are familiar with, so comparing it to those can give you a false sense of security. The are also lots of asymptomatic infections. Unless you've had some fancy lab work done, you can't say for sure that you haven't had and haven't spread it. The more important point is that you can easily get it and spread it in the future, and that will likely kill or injure other people, and you probably won't even know you did it to them. You can get vaccinated and know that you did your best to stop that from happening though. If you don't give a shit about anyone else, then you don't have to think about how your choices affect other people.

The mRNA vaccines are sort of similar to viruses. in any cell certain parts of the cell's DNA are converted to RNA in the nucleus, and that RNA then gets turned into proteins that let the cell interact with it's environment it different ways. RNA virus (and DNA viruses that produce RNA), use a cell to produce their own viral proteins, and those viral proteins help the virus outcompete cellular functions and evade the immune system, allowing them to replicate and increase their numbers. The mRNA vaccines create enough protein to evoke an immune response, but they don't have the code to make any of the all proteins the virus would need to replicate, so you end up with a good immune response to the real virus without all the added damage from uncontrolled growth from a real virus. The mRNA viruses are basically blobs of fat with RNA code for the viral spike protein inside. They're so harmless that they'd die if they weren't refrigerated, and they need to be injected just to have a chance to enter cells. The covid virus is way more infectious than that, and it produces all the proteins it needs to replicate in cells and transfer from cell to cell. It also has other proteins that increase it's immune evasions and generally increase it's virulence.

There were other threads where the pros and cons of vaccination were debated, and the holdouts have basically confessed to being selfish misanthropic people who are unwittingly bad at reading comprehension. This thread was meant to be about covid more than about vaccine debate, but talking with you guys feels like playing wack-a-mole, so the thread gets hijacked by the debate over and over. The takeaway is that everything that you need to make a good decision is easily findable online if you look for it. Just assume the vaccine is safe and effective, and then look for information to prove that assumption instead of chasing down every crazy conspiracy you hear about trying to disprove it. ALL the science supports vaccination, plain and simple. It's not even remotely controversial among experts. Don't let wackos drag you don't their rabbit hole.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 1
    #27450672 -

Quote:
Koods tactics are stupid if the intended outcome is conveying information and getting people to do what he wants.


he does sometimes undermine the potential force of his arguments to change minds, we all know how. In terms of relating the facts about the pandemic, the virus, and the vaccines themselves, nobody has really done a better job than koods. Fevers has a way with words but koods succinctly demonstrates his points with respectable references on a more consistent basis than anyone else posting about this.


Never throw the baby out with the bathwater.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #27450684 -

Lol, relax, y'all...or else, something something...

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27450708 -

Enkidu said:
Basically that link showed 75% of the people in that group who were infected were fully vaccinated.



You have to take that statistic in context for it to be meaningful though.

I didn't see any comprehensive numbers in that article on the amount of people who were there and the vaccination rates. I know Provincetown pretty well though, it's one of the most liberal places I've been and is essentially the LGBT capital of the northeast... I would guess that the vaccination numbers were pushing 80% or more.

Let's say 120 people go to an event and 100 of them are vaccinated (83% vaccination rate). If 15 vaccinated people get infected and 5 unvaccinated people get infected, vaccinated people make up 75% of infections.

Even though the headline makes it look like being vaccinated leaves you more at risk of infection or isn't helpful, when you look at it in context only 15% of vaccinated people got sick compared to 25% of unvaccinated people. Again these aren't the exact numbers from Provincetown but the percentages are likely similar.



Quote:
Unlike some people I like to have good data and longer term studies and research on the effect of things before taking them.

The covid vaccine is still very new regardless of if you believe it to be or not and data is still being gathered on its effectiveness and in particular it's effectiveness after around 260 days or so and against variants


Have you ever taken supplements or vitamins? There's a decent probability they contained something not listed on the bottle, and almost a guarantee they weren't tested long-term. There is no oversight.

If you go to the hospital with COVID, there's a good chance you'll be undergoing treatments far less well studied than the vaccine. These treatments will be to help save your life or prevent further permanent damage to your body, when you could have taken a much more well studied vaccine that would have kept you out of the hospital in the first place.

Do you live in a building? Were there long term studies on that building you're living in? Sure you may have lived in it for x amount of years, but who's to say the roof won't just cave in and kill you on year y? There's no way to be sure.

We don't worry about the building we live in because there are codes and standards and basic principles of building and engineering that let us understand that the structure will be safe in the future. The same goes for the vaccine, the mRNA COVID vaccine is new but it's not new technology. There are many factors in place that allow the scientists in the field to be so sure that these mystery "long term side effects" that people are afraid of occurring years later, which never happen with vaccines, will not happen. There's not one person on the planet who's identified a mechanism of action for how an mRNA vaccine could cause issues that lay dormant and pop up years later, that somehow evaded the countless number of scientists around the globe who've thoroughly analyzed ever facet of the vaccine and the physiology of people receiving it up to a year and a half later.

Edited by feevers (08/31/21 12:31 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27450717 -

Guesswork, I agree with the first paragraph. All my friends and family are out of state. I don't see any of them.

I'm barely around anyone at all, the grocery store is mainly where I'm around other people.

I do not agree with "assume the vaccine is safe and effective. Look for information to prove that assumption."

That's kind of like confirmation bias and one of the worst things you can do is continually look for information to support the view and opinion you already have.

If that were the case all I would do is search for reasons not to trust the vax etc as opposed to spending more time talking with and trying to look at the data and reasoning to disprove my opinion.

I try to evaluate things from both sides and see what both arguments are in an attempt to arrive at the correct conclusion.

I can't do that unless I examine and evaluate points, reasoning, and data, to support either side.

I spend more time talking to pro vaxers than anti vaxers, since my stance is apprehension and mistrust against the vax . I see what their counter argument is to the anti vax stance. that's how I weigh the strength of both arguments in an attempt to uncover my own error in thinking or fallacies, or missing data and perspective etc.

Shoot first ask questions later sounds risky to me considering events in our past and our history


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: trees]
    #27450892 -

This might come as a shock to you but nobody gives a fuck about the vaccine here

Half our medical device company is not vaccinated. All dumb people with university degrees who perform actual clinical trials and whatnot


Worry about conversations about vaccines :lol:  you funny guy


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #27451034 -

Do you sell ventilator tubes?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27451106 -

Question here, why do shortbus and budboy get to troll but koods doesn't? They've made it clear that they think anyone who dies from covid is genetically inferior, and are happy to see them dead. You'd think that would detract from their arguments more. But no, koods is the one 'acting like a nazi' :rolleyes:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Lynnch]
    #27451129 -

Lynnch said:
Question here, why do shortbus and budboy get to troll but koods doesn't? They've made it clear that they think anyone who dies from covid is genetically inferior, and are happy to see them dead. You'd think that would detract from their arguments more. But no, koods is the one 'acting like a nazi' :rolleyes:


It's evolution.  Viruses are apart of evolution they even modify you're DNA. You have ancient viral codes in your genetic structure right now


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Lynnch]
    #27451170 -

#FreeKoods

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #27451192 -

Nah


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: budmanman]
    #27451193 -

Idk but I gotta say, Asante has demonstrated exceptional character


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27451255 -

Previous covid prevents delta better than Pfizer vaccine

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-27/previous-covid-prevents-delta-infection-better-than-pfizer-shot


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Lynnch] * 1
    #27451265 -

Lynnch said:
Question here, why do shortbus and budboy get to troll but koods doesn't? They've made it clear that they think anyone who dies from covid is genetically inferior, and are happy to see them dead. You'd think that would detract from their arguments more. But no, koods is the one 'acting like a nazi' :rolleyes:



Koods is one of the main contriburtors to this thread. Its fashionable to pick on him so people do and thats part of why he's cranky, but he's consistently one of the best contributors of this thread and the two earlier incarnations.

I asked of him to not give antivaxxers the cold shoulder, but since he has a valid reason to do what he does, and doesn't break rules, i'm fine with him doing it the rough way if he prefers.

Koods is under no sanction as far as I know and based on what i saw in this thread I would not like him to be sanctioned.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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