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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27445162 -

Meanwhile, only 2% of Africa has had the opportunity to be vaccinated.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27445193 -

Asante said:
I take it a bit personally because I'm the one with the comorbidities and I don't think I have any less right to life because of them.


I,m truly sorry to hear that this is your situation and feel for you deeply.
Because of this bioweapon virus it's also a situation where people are deeply concerned about their own health and safety and will make decisions in respect of that according to their own wisdom which may differ from dominant narratives but that in itself doesn't necessarily make them wrong. It's not a situation where people are just being pigheaded and selfish, at least I hope not.
I wish you all the best, Let us all get through all this with the least harm to people and to basic human freedoms. :heart:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27445197 -

Well I apologize for having been part of a back and forth me against you in some of this thread

I've taken things personally and made attacks because of it

I'm not trying to be one of the extremist on either side.

If I knew that

A) the vax was effective at reducing severity of symptoms and held minimal risk
B) the vax reduced the chance of spread
C) both a and b had long term effectiveness and did not worsen long term potential impact

Then I'd probably get the vax as a means of reducing the chance of other people ending up in the hospital as I personally have no fear of covid but would not want to be the cause of worsening someone's life or circumstances or toll on the hospital workers etc

Some of the stuff I've seen here has started to make me reconsider that the vax may meet my a b and c. Even if some of you are total dicks and I still don't agree with the way you view things or go about things etc etc. I mean you'll have a hard time forcing me to do anything I don't choose and just threatening that or threatening this or that makes me want to push back stronger,not the best way to go about things

My mistrust of the people giving out the vaccine and my paranoia and gut feeling of what's going on in the form of the social repercussions for mandates and forced vaccinations is what causes me to still remain hesitant.

As well as my personal experience of never having covid or symptoms and knowing many more people who have had covid with no real Ill effect or need for hospitalization, lots of stories from the people in my life who have dealt with it are very different from what I'm hearing is going on about the risk and severity.

But people working in hospitals etc seem to be in relative consensus on the damage it's having and the negative effect.

Idk.

I guess because I've had so very limited effect on my life besides outside forces forcing mandates, restrictions, and doing this and that, that's why I have the opinion I have and why I have my doubts etc and have my mistrust

I haven't experienced or seen what people tell me so it's hard for me to understand the need to do what they're saying to do.

To me it's like having no water in California and telling someone out east they need to conserve water

That's kinda how I'm feeling


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27445214 -

Asante said:
longbus said:
The herd needs thinning.


After you, good Sir!


longbus said:
If the vaccine is so perfect then the people who are at risk should just get it and shut the fuck up. Then theyre protected right?


People who dont get vaccinated are a bigger burden on the healthcare system - for everyone - and a bigger burden on the rate for infection - for everyone - and an increase of the burden on the economy - for everyone.

And why? Because they, like Koods says, aren't willing to make the slightest sacrifice for the common good.

Not even if the government tries to sweeten the deal with handing out free hundred dollar bills.


If i get covid i promise you i will not go to a hospital, i will drink chaga and honey and keep to myself until im better. Hospitals are for the unhealthy, a regular person with the right tea will be fine without a hospital. The hospital makes some cases worse even.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27445220 -

Have a look at India facing 400,000 new cases each day:




Have a look at the other side of the pandemic:





Why India? because you see it as it is in India, they can't cover it up as much as it happens here in richer countries.

If the US was in that stage, mass graves would be bulldozed.


A) the vax was effective at reducing severity of symptoms and held minimal risk
The % of hospitalizations among vaccinated is much lower than the % of hospitalization for the unvaccinated. Less Likely To Get Severe Outcome
B) the vax reduced the chance of spread
It does. If you have 100 people who would have gotten Covid unvaccinated, and instead you vaccinate them with Pfizer, only about 5 get sick, not 100. Less Likely To Be Infected.
C) both a and b had long term effectiveness and did not worsen long term potential impact
There is every reason to assume based on all our experience with vaccines and how the immune system works that tghis will hold for at least months.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #27445228 -

Baby_Hitler said:
I think this message board needs a thinning of the herd of sociopathic idiots.


:misinformation:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: longbus]
    #27445229 -

I'm not trying to take away from the experience of others in terms of covid as far as loved ones falling ill, passing away, working in hospitals and conditions that are difficult and overcome with covid patients etc.

It's just hard for me to make my own personal life choices based on an experience of someone else as opposed to making it based on my own.

I don't do that.

I couldn't live with making life choices based on what others tell me to do if it is in conflict with what my inner voice and feeling tells me to do.

Right or wrong.

Yeah Asante, based on some of the stuff im seeing I am slowly starting to agree that is quite possible...  And slowly entertaining the potential of getting a vax. But still only considering the potential.

Still things going on and happening that don't make sense to me though.

Going to watch those videos you linked

My indecisiveness and inability to 100% know for sure what is best makes me opt to remove myself completely from society and not get a vax and see what happens as opposed to being involved


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27445234 -

Asante said:
Have a look at India facing 400,000 new cases each day:




Have a look at the other side of the pandemic:





Why India? because you see it as it is in India, they can't cover it up as much as it happens here in richer countries.

If the US was in that stage, mass graves would be bulldozed.


A) the vax was effective at reducing severity of symptoms and held minimal risk
The % of hospitalizations among vaccinated is much lower than the % of hospitalization for the unvaccinated. Less Likely To Get Severe Outcome
B) the vax reduced the chance of spread
It does. If you have 100 people who would have gotten Covid unvaccinated, and instead you vaccinate them with Pfizer, only about 5 get sick, not 100. Less Likely To Be Infected.
C) both a and b had long term effectiveness and did not worsen long term potential impact
There is every reason to assume based on all our experience with vaccines and how the immune system works that tghis will hold for at least months.


Lol india is the definition of overpopulation. If anywhere needs thinned its there. Also they live like animals so obviously there are going to be sanitation issues.


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never 4get!


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27445241 -

So I'm considering this with the flu in mind and how we have a "flu season" and vax etc

In what way do you guys see the vax impacting us in say a year from now or even in the coming winter ..?

We will get a new vaccine regularly same as the flu?

This will be successful ?

We will just minimize the pain from it and the severity ?

I'm trying to consider things beyond just short term and how things will play out longer term in terms of covid


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27445254 -

Yeah I don't get that either.

Not really for "thinning the heard" mentality, none of that is up for me to decide. In the old days humans had groups who all worked together and left none behind.

I also don't understand calling people sociopathic idiots and suggesting they be killed.

Seems a bit hypocritical

Well in some ways I play devil's advocate to see if I can be convinced.

Some of the things here have been more or less convincing.

Still on the fence and undecided. Since I don't consider myself a risk to others since i stay to myself and mind my own business, and since those who are at risk can apparently get protection from a vaccine, I will most likely continue to do nothing different and just stay behind the scenes minding my own business waiting to see how this plays out and waiting until action is required to take

If while minding my own business and not putting anyone at risk people try to force me to do things, I can't really say I'll be happy with that.


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27445257 -

Please don't mind my rambling, I'm just frustrated.

After receiving both doses of the Pfizer vaccine, I ditched the mask entirely (though I continued to be cautious & use hand sanitizer selectively). But now with the delta variant on the rise, there's been increased pressure to be cautious—which of course includes the prospect of masking up again, which is something I'm not exactly thrilled about.

Life, man, life...

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu] * 1
    #27445261 -

Also a bit hypocritical to say people are selfish yet clearly a lot of you do not have my best interest in mind and would be fine with me suffering, for my life to be difficult, for my family to suffer, for me to learn a hard lesson, a lot of you have wished that to be so,all because I'm not doing what you think I should be doing or disagree with your opinion or view on things.

I've never once wished or hoped bad things for anyone here nor call anyone names prior to being attacked or insulted for my choices or view.

Just some things I don't understand


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: lysergicide]
    #27445328 -

lysergicide said:
Please don't mind my rambling, I'm just frustrated.

After receiving both doses of the Pfizer vaccine, I ditched the mask entirely (though I continued to be cautious & use hand sanitizer selectively). But now with the delta variant on the rise, there's been increased pressure to be cautious—which of course includes the prospect of masking up again, which is something I'm not exactly thrilled about.

Life, man, life...


I ditched the mask in early July after my 2nd Pfizer shot had fully kicked in, and mask laws were withdrawn here for some stupid "Freedom Summer" thing the government was promoting. Within a week of going maskless I caught my first cold of the entire pandemic and had to get a q tip up the nose. Negative but still, clearly masks work. I've gone back to masking everywhere. I don't want a case of Covid light either, you can still get long covid. I still do stuff, but no planes, no crowded bars or parties until Covid is no longer a risk. That may be a while its once again out of control in my city. Mostly unvaxxed

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: viraldrome] * 1
    #27445456 -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html

If this is true, shouldn't we be having conversations about the need to address our unhealthy lifestyle?

From the perspective of "unvaccinated individuals are a burden to healthcare"

I would argue that people with an unhealthy lifestyle are a stronger burden but noone mentions or talks about that.

It's just something to consider when making it out as if not getting vaccinated is the cause of all these problems and mass forced vaccinations is the answer.

I have not been vaccinated and my burden on the healthcare system has been 0.

It doesn't seem like a strong long term solution to these issues...

And it doesn't seem like a good reason to force me to do something.

I am entitled by God and law to make my own decisions on what goes in my body.

When someone starts to say they are going to tell me what goes in my body or force my decision on something I haven't chosen, that's where we start to have an issue.

I don't get why someone wouldn't understand that.

At that point it's not about a vaccine anymore.

That becomes a loss of freedom.

I won't allow someone to make my choices for me or live my life according to someone else's choices for me. That is not freedom.

What is the idea that someone is not capable of making their own choices and dealing with the consequences of them, and that the state is entitled to make choices for the individual since they are capable of making the best and the right choice?

How do people not have issue with this or understand why I do have issue with it ?

You can say there is no argument for a fight for freedom but there is.

If I were for vaccines and thought it was right I would probably try to encourage people by saying "well I think the responsible thing to do is to get vaccinated. I think this because of the studies I have read etc. If you choose not to get vaccinated I hope you don't have any severe symptoms or spread the virus to others etc"

Meanwhile the message here is basically "if you won't get the vax you're dumb as shit, you're selfish and you need to do this for the greater good of us all and if you don't well, eat shit and die."

:confused:


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Within You , Without You


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu] * 4
    #27445491 -

There's no vaccine for an unhealthy lifestyle, no vaccine to undo the years or decades of psychological factors that lead someone to cope in unhealthy ways like by overeating or choosing to be more sedentary.

As a country promoting nutrition has been a top public health priority for decades, endless tax dollars are spent on educating and encouraging people to get healthy. The "freedom" crowd that are anti-vax are the same type of people that lost their shit when Michelle Obama wanted healthier lunches in schools. Freedom means their kids being able to eat cheetos and pizza with a coke 5 days a week. Being obese or unhealthy isn't contagious, there's no safe and simple and nearly instantaneous solution to the problem like there is with COVID... it's not a good comparison at all.

You will have your freedom, just like private businesses will have the freedom to not let you in their doors, countries will have the freedom (like they have for decades) to ask for proof of vaccinations, healthcare settings will force you to wear masks, schools will mandate them (like they do with other vaccines), you may find yourself paying more for health insurance, etc.  I'm personally not in favor of this as a form of punishment or whatever, I'm in favor of it because it will end the pandemic a whole lot quicker and save lives.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: feevers]
    #27445536 -

Well I never lost my shit about healthy lunches? Nor would my kids ever eat Cheetos or drink soda.

No vaccine for an unhealthy lifestyle but with a healthy lifestyle why do I need a vaccine ?

My point is that if 78% of the ICU patients were overweight or obese then that is as much a topic of discussion as 78% of non vaccinated individuals account for hospitalization.

And there should be equal call to address this correlation. It's an important fact to note when looking at who is occupying hospital beds when me, as a non vaccinated person, is being blamed and targeted.

As someone who is not obese or overweight, and who is extremely healthy and fit, living an active lifestyle all my life and eating healthy, I'm already a much less risk to the healthcare system

My comment specifically referred to the burden on healthcare and that me not being vaccinated is less risk than me being overweight or obese

I also specifically said long term solution and not short or immediate solution in the way a vax would be

I never said I don't think these people who are high risk shouldn't take the vax if they choose due to their high risk due to their lifestyle choices.

Yeah if a store says you must be vaccinated I have no issue spending my money elsewhere

I doubt it will make much difference. I'll shop elsewhere and won't care. They will lose my business and most likely not care, assuming it happens.

What you're describing sounds like a horrible scenario.


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu] * 2
    #27445550 -

As long as your freedoms and our freedoms don't touch, it's not gay.

So you people go do your freedoms over there, K? Thx.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #27445553 -

I am doing my freedoms over here, minding my own business and letting others live however they choose.

The issue comes when people start trying to come over and force their choices on me, you still fail to understand ?

You leave me alone and there's no issue. You don't and we have an issue. Are you starting to get it or what?

I'm not over here trying to force your fat ass to eat broccoli and run a lap am I ? (Not you specifically)

So based on that statistic if 78% of the population wasn't overweight and obese and unhealthy then my risk to them would be drastically reduced.


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Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu]
    #27445556 -

I'm sorry not 78% but I'm sure you get what I mean.

If the entire country wasn't sick as shit already then forcing me to get a vax wouldn't be an issue for 78% of those cases in the hospital.

I wasn't trying to start a fight I was trying to offer some important info that is relevant but it's like all you ever get met with here is hostility

I accept the statistic on unvaccinated being more likely to be hospitalized based on the data so why are we ignoring the data showing a strong correlation between being unhealthy and being hospitalized ?

And keep in mind that those vaccinated can still get covid and spread covid. Apparently it's a lower probability but it is a fact nonetheless

And there are also those worried that long-term effectiveness of the vaccine will not be there

Why are we hyperfocused on me b eding a vaccine when there are other important factors at okay here ?


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Within You , Without You


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Enkidu] * 2
    #27445557 -

If 71% of americans are overweight, do you really think the discussion during a pandemic should be focused on the fact that 78% of people in the ICU with COVID are overweight? Or should we maybe focus on the vaccine, which will keep almost all of these people out of the hospital?

When you keep citing this obesity stat you seem to keep forgetting that almost all of these people currently in ICUs chose to refuse the vaccine. Regardless of your health, if you're unvaccinated you're almost certainly at higher risk for hospitalization than an overweight person who is vaccinated, and ~29x higher risk than vaccinated people closer to your age/weight etc. You're substantially more likely to become infected than a vaccinated person, and will very likely stay infected and contagious for longer and therefore be a spreader for longer.

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