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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2731722 -

I suppose if you could read the future perhaps. Personally, I see issues ahead but nothing so complex we cant solve it at a minor cost to the human race. All I see, via history that we know and what we have observed (science) is that we are just repeating ourselves in most areas ( I personally blame genetics for that) but dont see us dying out as a race anytime soon. I'd go so far as to say we have the technology now to live in many many many places we dont yet, ruling out overpopulation in general, We can create our own food with superior effeciency compared to natures way of doing it, ruling out general starvation, and are advancing exponentially medically, slowly ruling out diseases and what not.

Keep in mind, im talking on a massive species scale here, not things we will see in our lifetime perhaps including NEAR extiction which I think is a possibility, but not likely.

So far it just seems we can mimic and recreate most of natures 'needs' effieciently enough even down to making oxygen, living in space. etc and 'nature' as a whole just keeps on ticking regardless of how we damage it. Even if we copmletely nuked the entire planet, chances are there will still be lifeforms, an we will repeat process over millions of years with just a different random set of organisms.

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: ebuk]
    #2731748 -

While I don't like the fact that we're encroaching on the mountain lion's habitat, you can't just expect everyone to get up and move. Under the circumstances, this was the right thing to do.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Barbi]
    #2731864 -

The cops who killed the mountain lion were likely just living out some big-game hunter fantasy. At least we can be sure they weren't out beating and shooting random minorities. Fuckers still shoulda tranq'd the lion and re-located it.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: unbeliever]
    #2731898 -

There is no shortage of mountain lions there.  time to tranq and relocate cockroaches!

:laugh:

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Barbi]
    #2731929 -

mndfreeze said:
There is no shortage of mountain lions there.  time to tranq and relocate cockroaches!

:laugh:


Violence, when it is unnecessary, is evil.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: unbeliever]
    #2731937 -

evil is manmade. violence is not.

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Barbi]
    #2731954 -

mndfreeze said:
evil is manmade. violence is not.


Violence in nature is always necessary within the context of the moral understanding (none) of the animals. Humans on the other hand can discriminate between necessary and unnecessary violence. When they choose to be violent when there is no cause to be violent, that is a moral choice and it is, in my opinion, evil.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: unbeliever]
    #2731987 -

I suspect there were reasons behind the killing vs a relocation. Probably cost/time/manpower and/or the possiblility that even moved, that lion might be prone to returning as someone else mentioned earlier in the thread.


There is a cost/benefit ratio for everything. Thats why no one gives a rats ass about roaches. Or rattlesnakes killed every year, or the bugs that splatter on windshields. But oooohhh a pretty majestic mountain lion. Gotta save that!

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: unbeliever]
    #2732015 -

Violence, when it is unnecessary, is evil.

Do you eat meat?

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Annom]
    #2732066 -

Annom said:
Violence, when it is unnecessary, is evil.

Do you eat meat?


Yes, but I consider food a necessity. You can argue that I could be a vegan or even a vegetarian but that's not the natural order of things. Humans are omnivores. I think it is reasonable to work with in the context of Nature. You might say that killing IS in our nature, but so is discretion. *shrug*


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2732130 -

you either don't live in california or you don't watch
the news.

there have been numerous attacks and I believe a
couple deaths in california this year.

bicyclists PULLED off their bikes by mountain lions.

why don't you do your own research, if you need
help, start here: simple google search

reading some of these arguments makes me laugh,
for crying out loud, adaptation, save the mountain
lions...blah blah blah.

relocation doesn't do much good, for example, bears
in Yosemite generally find their way right back and
wind up having to be shot. Mountain lions can be
relocated, but there's probably already other mountain
lions in the area which will cause territorial conflicts
and eventually push one of the animals out of their
bounds and, likely, back into civilized territory.

here's your option people, stop moving to the western
states or learn to live with the fact that sometimes
animals have to be killed to protect mndfreeze's kids
from being dragged by their necks into the desert
by a wild cat.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: unbeliever]
    #2732139 -

You don't need to eat meat these days. Meat is just delicious and it makes most of us happy to eat meat(happier than eating rise :smile: ). So we (indirectly) kill animals for our pleasure. If someone shoots a lion for his pleasure... what's the difference? He might eat the lion as well and have double pleasure! That's how you get more out of an animal than when you just buy it at the supermarket.  :smirk:

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Annom]
    #2732178 -

Blah blah blah. Those policemen were effecitvely thill-kill sport hunting on the tax-payer's dime. There are countless groups who would have come in, tranq'd the lion and re-located him back into the wilds or maybe even to a zoo.

If that particular lion was attacking and killing humans then it should be put down because it would be possible, and even likely, that that animal in particular was hyper-aggressive or what you might call a man-killer. It's a known phenomenon and unfortunately there isn't much to do about it.

My opinion stands. Violence without cause is evil. Whether that was the case in this specific incident is indeterminable at this point.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: unbeliever]
    #2732229 -

Naturalist defends mountain lion killing
Public safety, poor success in relocations cited by Palo Alto naturalist Deborah Bartens

by Jay Thorwaldson
Palo Alto Weekly Staff

City Naturalist Deborah Bartens defended the Palo Alto Police Department?s decision to shoot the errant mountain lion that wandered into a stately residential area of northern Palo Alto.


?Oh yeah, knowing other case histories of similar incidents, I don?t think they had any other choice,? said Bartens, a 23-veteran of city wildlife management, including both the baylands and Foothills Park, where lions normally roam.


In a Thursday interview, Bartens noted the city was in telephone consultation with state Department of Fish & Game lion experts as well as with Interim Chief Bruce Cumming in Morgan Hill about three lion incursions into residential areas in the past year.


Even had it been safe to tranquilize the lion with a dart, the record of relocation of lions is extremely poor, she said.


?The relocation failure rate is in the 90s,? she said, citing the percentage of failures based on radio-collar tracking of relocated lions, meaning the animals die within the first year.


The high mortality is often due to run-ins with older dominant males whose turf they?ve found themselves in and they also don?t know the terrain or food sources, she said.


In cases where there is no dominant male nearby, relocated lions have been known to track down female lions with cubs and kill the cubs, Bartens said.


While relocation of some species works well, with lions it often causes ?devastating ripple effects,? Bartens said.


Police Chief Lynne Johnson said the department did have a tranquilizer-dart gun available, but the decision to shoot the lion was made in the morning after consulting with others knowledgeable about lions and the use of tranquilizer darts.


The department has come under intense criticism for the shooting, receiving hundreds of e-mails and phone calls from across the nation, and some from other countries, protesting the shooting. More favorable responses started coming in later in the week, department officials reported.


Criticism also shifted to the adequacy of neighborhood notification after the lion was sighted before 6 a.m. Monday. It was shot about 1 p.m. while about 30 feet up in a camphor tree at the corner of Walnut and Walter Hays drives, a block from the main library in the Community Center neighborhood.


She said in addition to the public-safety factors there was real concern about losing the lion if it started running after being hit with a tranquilizer dart -- as it could jump high fences easily and could be difficult or impossible to track.


Even shot by a high-powered rifle slug through both lungs and falling 30 feet, the cat managed to dash about 30 feet before running under a bush and collapsing.

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Barbi]
    #2732237 -

I fail to see any 'sport shooting on the tax payers dollar' in there. In fact, given that report is true, Id have to 100% agree with the police in this situation.

Sorry, but I do put humans higher on the priority list then a mountain lion.

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Barbi]
    #2732290 -

Thanks for the article. I just think it's sad that it had to die and that urban sprawl is so out of control.


--------------------
Once in awhile you can get shown the light

In the strangest of places if you look at it right...

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: Phishgrrl]
    #2732341 -

I wonder how many of our own kind are happy though, at a small cost of one or two lions.

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: psikooz]
    #2732353 -

the lion was chased up a tree by somebody's dog and the tranquilizer gun was on its way but still about 20 minutes from arriving there. the mountain lion began climbing down the tree...which was in a neighborhood with elementary schools in session, etc. so the police had to make the call to shoot it. it was in the public's interest. they didn't want to kill it, they had no choice.

please post the facts next time.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: TODAY]
    #2732417 -

i think it was lame that they killed it...but someone said there ins't any shortage of them so it doesn't REALLY matter. And with there being schools near by and stuff it was a reasonable decision...i think they should have waited for the tranquilzer gun but whatever.


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-Wash uffitze drive me to firenze

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Re: Sickening news this morning... [Re: YouEnjoyMyself]
    #2734678 -

I guess since theres no shrotage of humans its fine to kill one.

I read the article, but i stand were i stand. We are treating the planet like a video game, were not treating it like a living entity.

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