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Looking for tips from King Oyster growers
    #27290332 -

I’d really like to grow these regularly to eat and give to friends. I have successfully fruited a couple in jars just as a test but my 5lb mycobags haven’t yet fruited so I’m looking for tips.

I’m using 50/50 HWFP/Soybean Hulls. I colonize at 76F. Beyond that is where I need the help. I got the test  jars to fruit by putting them in my cooler set to 55F and allowing some FAE.

So here are the questions:

Do you move to lower temps at full consolidation or do you wait a while, and if you wait, how long?

What temp do you like to go down to for fruit initiation?

About how long at that temp does it take for you to start seeing fruit?

Do you leave it at that temp after seeing pins or do you raise it a bit? If you raise it, how much?

Do you use a casing layer? If so, do you apply it at full consolidation or do you wait longer?

Thanks in advance!


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27291023 -

I used 50/50 with success, but use a different mix now, just a different preference.. i struggled with these some months back, but now got a good handle..  make sure you humidity is high.   

I colonized around 76, my fruiting temperature is 60 degrees, i used 55 degrees no problem too, with poorer results noticed when it hit above 65.  once the block is fully colonized i cut the top of the bag all the way open, then put a rubber band on the top, to keep co2 high while allowing fresh air to form.. this will pop the pins:



i wait till pins form very heavy, then i open it up by removing rubber band, i don't usually split the bag up a down until day or two before harvest, i like how it fills out the cap. 



several days later harvest is ready, just harvested a few minutes ago:



100 BE first flush with these, i'll certainly get a second flush by closing up bag with rubberband, then opening it again when pins get large..  casing is not needed, but it helped me when greatly until i dialed my environment in..  i'm fairly new at king oyster but got good results after struggling... so sharing with you.

Edited by trippleblack (05/02/21 08:12 PM)

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: trippleblack]
    #27291391 -

Thank you for the reply, very helpful!

About how long does it take for you to see pins from the time you put them to 60F?

And to confirm, you put them to 60F as soon as you visually see full consolidation?


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27294756 -

i think a little more than ten days..  i wait until the block is visually very colonized and fuzzy on top.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: trippleblack]
    #27294776 -

For me, I have found that moving the bag to colder temps at full colonization, scratching the top, and letting them start to pin in the bag works the best. usually turns out great with a good culture.


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: GreenGills]
    #27295497 -

Thank you both. I just found that top-scratch technique on YouTube the other day. I’m giving it a shot. Guy was a commercial grower. He also said to let consolidate 1-2 weeks before moving to cold, for best flushes, which falls with your 10 day suggestion. On this next grow I will wait 10 days after full consolidation, then take your advice and move to cold and scratch top. I was already trying to fruit in the bag so at least I was doing one thing right haha.

Thanks again.


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27295544 -

I just wait for pin clusters to form in my sealed bags.. no scratching, no casing.. works every time. You just wait for pins to form (even at 70 degrees mine still form fine) then I fruit them in 60 degrees. Very easy mushroom to pin and fruit if you just keep things simple.


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Be patient and keep it simple.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27296256 -

Interesting... have you ever tried pinning at 76F?
Do you change anything at all in conditions from when you inoculate to when pins form?

I can do 73F and 76F room temps, and I can do 50-65F in the cooler. That’s what I’m limited to.


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27296549 -

No I never tried at 76*. I cool my apartment in the summer so I colonize/ pin and fruit at 60*. Was just saying that Ive had pins form just fine at 70* as well. I dont do anything after inoculating, you just leave the bag sealed until you see pins on the top, always comes shortly after 90% colonization. One difference Ive noticed growing Kings though is there is a sharp decline in pin/ fruit production when you go below a 1/2 qt of spawn per 5lb bag of masters mix (or wheat bran). Other oysters you can get away with using very little spawn, but every single time I have tried to go with 1/4 qt per bag they have not produced very well. Somewhere in between 1/4 qt and 1/2 qt is the sweet spot. Some people will tell you the only difference with more spawn is it just colonizes faster but Ive seen very noticeable differences in pin clusters and fruit production when changing spawn ratios for Kings. Some people say its a waste of spawn, but I like to harvest big sets of fruits and not waste my time so I go with 1/2 qt per bag. Spawn is too easy for me to make for me to care.


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Be patient and keep it simple.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: sendmehummus] * 1
    #27296561 -

sendmehummus said:
I just wait for pin clusters to form in my sealed bags.. no scratching, no casing.. works every time. You just wait for pins to form (even at 70 degrees mine still form fine) then I fruit them in 60 degrees. Very easy mushroom to pin and fruit if you just keep things simple.



:whatshesaid:

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Stromrider]
    #27296841 -

Ok thank you for the info. I may be dealing with some sluggish or poor genetics for the Kings I'm currently growing then.

As for spawn, I have tried a variety of ratios but have been mostly doing 1 full quart of spawn for a 5lb gab. As an experiment, I tried 1/2cup of spawn for a 5lb bag and it isn't even really colonizing at all except in isolated patches so will definitely keep going with the higher ratio.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27297065 -

Hard to tell without pics what your issue is. Sounds like youre doing too much fluctuating and moving around though. Next round just simply wait for pins after colonization then cut the top of the bag off then fruit at 50*-60*.


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Be patient and keep it simple.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27297228 -

I noticed the same thing hummus. Low spawn rate leads to low yields. But 1/2 to a full quart per bag can yield nearly 100% BE on the first flush. :thumbup:

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: deadmandave]
    #27297256 -

Yeah I wont go under 1/2 qt anymore. All of my 1/4 qt bags produced lousy pin clusters compared to my 1/2 bags. With blues, pearls and white elm oysters I can get away with way less. Its like Kings just do better when those hyphae connections are fast and strong. It confuses me though bc the 1/4 qt bags become just as consolidated as the 1/2 qt bags over time.. there must be a way to get the same pinsets if both blocks are at the same %colonization.. I just havnt discovered it yet.


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Be patient and keep it simple.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27297382 -

Hmm I was assuming it was a nutrient thing but I really don't know.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: deadmandave]
    #27298123 -

What's your supp rate hummus?


--------------------

~HOW TO BUILD A STEAM STERILIZER~ W/FARM3R
In case you forgot,EVERYTHING YOU NEED RIGHT HERE.
Gordo Research
Extract! Extract! Read all about it!
I have a YouTube also. Let's help each other!

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Farm3r]
    #27298132 -

I run masters mix, so 50/50 soy hulls and hwfp.


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27298535 -

Thanks again for the replies. So per your request, here are some photos.


This is my latest attempt. I wanted to do it in a really deep tub so that I could experiment with a LOT of C02 and regulating it with holes/vents, and I'd prefer not using bags but it's not a huge deal. This is 5lbs of substrate and a full quart of grains. It consolidated fully in under a week. It almost looks like its starting to from some primordia? I've left this one alone, in a 76F room. I mixed the grains to the substrate two weeks ago. 50/50 HWFP/SoyHulls








This is the first bag I did. I used a full quart of spawn in it as well, and the same 50/50 mix. But I did move it in and out of three different rooms to test different temps (55, 76, and 73). I've left it alone in the cooler at 55 for the last 7 days though. Note the corner is open a bit for some FAE. I did case this one with 50/50 peat/verm and some lime. I made this bag one full month ago.






This last  bag I did with HWFP, wheat bran, and gypsum. Uncased. It colonized MUCH slower than the 50/50 grows. I did scratch the surface of this one a week ago as a test, and it has no casing. It too has been in the cooler for a week at 55F.



--------------------
* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27301055 -

Hindsight said:
I’d really like to grow these regularly to eat and give to friends. I have successfully fruited a couple in jars just as a test but my 5lb mycobags haven’t yet fruited so I’m looking for tips.

I’m using 50/50 HWFP/Soybean Hulls. I colonize at 76F. Beyond that is where I need the help. I got the test  jars to fruit by putting them in my cooler set to 55F and allowing some FAE.

So here are the questions:

Do you move to lower temps at full consolidation or do you wait a while, and if you wait, how long?

What temp do you like to go down to for fruit initiation?

About how long at that temp does it take for you to start seeing fruit?

Do you leave it at that temp after seeing pins or do you raise it a bit? If you raise it, how much?

Do you use a casing layer? If so, do you apply it at full consolidation or do you wait longer?

Thanks in advance!


I colonized around 72F with no problems but my best fruits came from 53F fruiting. I always scratched through the bag but always waited for pins to form before cutting the bag open. Also- if in an FC with other edibles I always left most of the bag on to refuse FAE for them. If I got super prolific pinning- I'd wait a day or two and remove the smaller pins as IME Kings like to over pin and abort- culling some of the pins prior to them abouting tended to lead to larger fruits    . No casing layer is needed as long as your FC is dialed in and they honestly need less rH (humidity) than regular blue oysters but I still found a fluctuation in rH to be helpful for them.


--------------------





Indoor Greenhouse Build 
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: TravelAgency]
    #27302747 -

TravelAgency said:
I colonized around 72F with no problems but my best fruits came from 53F fruiting. I always scratched through the bag but always waited for pins to form before cutting the bag open. Also- if in an FC with other edibles I always left most of the bag on to refuse FAE for them. If I got super prolific pinning- I'd wait a day or two and remove the smaller pins as IME Kings like to over pin and abort- culling some of the pins prior to them abouting tended to lead to larger fruits    . No casing layer is needed as long as your FC is dialed in and they honestly need less rH (humidity) than regular blue oysters but I still found a fluctuation in rH to be helpful for them.


Thanks for the info. When you say your best fruits came from 53F fruiting, are you saying you let pins form at 72F and then move to 53F after that, or that you move it to 53F before pins form?


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27304191 -

Finally! Pins! And lots of them.



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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27304532 -

No after a week of 100% colonization I moved into 53F fruiting that's when I got the pins


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Indoor Greenhouse Build 
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: TravelAgency]
    #27304563 -

Got it - thank you!


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* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27307105 -

Some nice looking oysters growing! Really looking forward to being able to cook these regularly and give to friends.



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* Build a steam pasteurizer
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27307520 -

good you got pins..  hope they grow up into healthy adults.. 

cooked mine chinese wok style, mushroom n broccoli..  soaked mushroom in hoisin sauce water overnight, then cooked with the broccoli n mushrooms in some oil after a little more seasoning and sauce.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: trippleblack]
    #27307873 -

That sounds like an awesome way to cook them. I like the hoisin marinade idea. Guessing these take really well to marinades since they are so firm.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27307891 -

Does anyone side fruit oysters?
I've gotten some good fruits, but only a few per block
..
I'm hoping the surface conditions are okay but I think it may be the problem. My humidity levels are okay but I have a circulation fan that might be causing a problem... with just my kings.

I may try to hand a sheet of plastic and hist grow them in one section of the room that's a little more protected. I've seen earth angle do something similar.
But what about slicing the side open? Anysuceess?


--------------------

~HOW TO BUILD A STEAM STERILIZER~ W/FARM3R
In case you forgot,EVERYTHING YOU NEED RIGHT HERE.
Gordo Research
Extract! Extract! Read all about it!
I have a YouTube also. Let's help each other!

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Farm3r]
    #27328933 -

The grow bag did ok. Got a couple of nice fruits from it but not a lot. Hoping for a second flush. I cooked and ate the fruits I harvested and they were fantastic. I really want to get a perpetual grow timed where I can have these non-stop.

This was my experiment using a deep tub instead of a bag. I wanted to try a tub because I felt the tall sides would hold more C02 in to help the stems stay fat and caps stay small. This tub was also the first time I allowed an additional 2 weeks of consolidation at 76F after it reached 100% consolidation before moving to the 55F fruiting fridge. I didn't mess with the surface of the substrate at any point. I noticed MASSIVE pinning and you can see evidence of that but most pins aborted except for the big fruits you can see in the pic. Is this pretty typical with kings?

Do most of you water during fruiting? And what happens with Kings if you reduce FAE after fruiting begins?



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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight] * 1
    #27329034 -

Yes Kings get huge pinsets and then abort most of them as the cluster grows, very typical of Kings. Well not typical per say, its just what they do. Some nice fruits they look great! I suggest picking every pin off for now, all the small fruits too and fruiting from another side. You should definitely get a second flush in about 2-3 weeks if thats all you got off the first flush. As for the FAE drop Im assuming you are asking bc you move them into a fridge. Its not ideal, amd I dont do that, but it looks like it worked for you. The inside of a fridge definitely isnt going to have ideal air flow for fruiting but it still looks like you managed! Kings are delish, enjoy!


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Be patient and keep it simple.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27329084 -

Thanks for the reply! Ok I'll do a little bit of pruning then.

For FAE, it's not so much the fridge I'm concerned with (because I can't do anything about that), it's more I'm wondering if I should put the lid back on the tub or leave it off. I left it cracked open quite a bit to get a pinset going. My fear is that it isn't humid enough in there. The fridge likes to extract water and dump it into an external water tray for evaporation outside the fridge. That little tray fills up fast and I can't have it overflow or it will ruin my floor. So I'm wondering if closing the lid (which fits really, really loosly) would help retain moisture in the tub and also provide enough FAE for the fruits. I was going to test it, but I would need to know signs of lack of FAE in the fruits in order to know when to reverse course if it isn't enough FAE.


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27332457 -

Another question: Do any of you inoculate your substrates with LC instead of grain spawn? Or is grain spawn always recommended for Kings?


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27333023 -

I get bad results (low yields) if I don't use about a quart of spawn. Not cool but almost worth it.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: deadmandave]
    #27333320 -

Alright thank you! Will stick to spawn.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27342609 -

Anyone grow KO in Jars, taking of cover for fruiting ?

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: pitriot]
    #27342734 -

That's how I grew my first ones. Did it on PF cakes I made with HWFP mixed in with the wet cake before PCing. It worked but it's such a small scale you aren't going to get much usable mushrooms out of it.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
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* Learn about trich


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27343147 -

Were these quart jars?
I was thinking of the same masters mix sub but in a jar and they have the fruit come out the top. Something like this

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: pitriot]
    #27343175 -

I did mine in pint jars originally. Quart could work but kings don't sprout just one fruit - which is all you'd have room for. I can see a cluster trying to grow and getting stuck in the jar. Would be hard getting down into the jar to monkey with it. Also seems like to make big fruit, they want a lot of substrate.


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27343223 -

Bottle cultivation is done on an industrial scale for kings all over the world. There are a couple  good videos from Korea.


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: deadmandave]
    #27343234 -

Yeah I did see that video when someone posted it a while back. Note that the surface of the substrate is at the very top of the bottle. The problem there is that you have to then ensure an optimal environment for the fruits. If you have the fruits deep in a jar with a lid and some controllable amount of airflow into the lid, you don't have to worry about conditions as much. You need a lot of CO2 to get the classic king shape with fat stem and small cap. So IMHO unless you have a walk-in cooler or some other setup with air conditioning or cooling down to 55F, humidity control, CO2 control and monitoring, it's going to be tough to grow in jars with the fruit being outside of the jar. Again, clearly I'm no expert here based on how new I am to this but that's what I have learned.


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* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27343318 -

What's the alternative? You need a cool fruiting chamber regardless if it's in a bottle or bag?

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: deadmandave]
    #27343328 -

Alternative is mycobags where you only cut the very top off, leaving tall sides in place to help hold in the co2, or using a deep tub like I did. Both require a cooler (I use a wine fridge), but if I was fruiting in jars with the substrate at the very top of the jar and the fruit out in the open without any reservoir to hold in co2, the mushrooms would likely have bigger caps and smaller stems. Would still grow though. Not sure if they'd have enough humidity out in the open either (another nice aspect of tubs or tall bags). You can see my deep tub in my photo above.


--------------------
* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
* Build a steam pasteurizer
* Learn about trich


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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27420923 -

So I didn't read up all I could on King Oysters and didn't realize the colder fruiting temperature required. My pinks are doing good and fruiting well the lions mane is fruiting good but not great and the Kings aren't fruiting at all. Solid white block throughout the bag. Been a week since I cut the top off of the bag and not one pin. So my question is could I just seal up the King bag and keep it until it's colder and then try to make it fruit? Maybe seal up and put into the fridge until I have cooler temps to work with? Any help would be appreciated. Oh and right now my room is averaging 74-76 degrees

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Bytor2112]
    #27421205 -

All you need the cold for really is to get them to pin.  You can probably leave them in the fridge a few days and once they pin move to temps in the 70's.  It's not an ideal temp for the whole fruiting, but I've done it before and they fruit fine.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Forrester]
    #27424228 -

Thank you for the help I appreciate it. I'll give it a go.

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Bytor2112]
    #27426823 -

Buy a used wine fridge and set it to 50 or 55 degrees. That's what I do and it has worked very well. I found mine on Facebook Marketplace for like $125 but they can be had even cheaper.


--------------------
* How eliminate condensation from no-pour agar plates
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* Learn about trich


Edited by Hindsight (08/13/21 12:50 PM)

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Re: Looking for tips from King Oyster growers [Re: Hindsight]
    #27429133 -

I like the wine fridge idea. I'm sure I can find one.

Thank you

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