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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #27085388 -

Enlil said:
The problem with your rant is that what you call "establishment lies" are mostly truths that you just don't want to hear.

For instance, remember when you went off the rails about "election fraud" that turned out never to have happened?




Election fraud that never happened. Right. Good thing I don't live in Enlil's version of reality. It's rather tiny in there... not much space to breathe.

In Enlil's world, everything is one dimensional. Everything CNN says is the god-honest unquestionable truth. Lies are Truth. War is Peace. And so on.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27085394 -

Real reality is actually a great place to breathe. Welcome to join any time. There's no gate keeper.


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27085396 -

Your projection is so transparent.  For you, everything Trump tweets is unquestionable truth.  The election fraud claims have been brought in multiple courts throughout the country, and they've failed every single time.  Over 50 times now.  At what point do you finally accept that reality?

Or are all the judges in on it?

Seriously, you bring up CNN, but this isn't about the media.  The courts have consistently shot down the nonsense.  Unanimous in most cases.  Even the Supreme Court which is mostly conservatives unanimously shot down cases twice.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #27085405 -

Even where judges had been personally appointed by Trump. Just makes zero sense that they would be in on a huge conspiracy against Trump. If they had any way of throwing him a bone within the framework of the law, surely they would have.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: chopstick]
    #27085450 -

chopstick said:
Enlil said:
The problem with your rant is that what you call "establishment lies" are mostly truths that you just don't want to hear.

For instance, remember when you went off the rails about "election fraud" that turned out never to have happened?




Election fraud that never happened. Right. Good thing I don't live in Enlil's version of reality. It's rather tiny in there... not much space to breathe.

In Enlil's world, everything is one dimensional. Everything CNN says is the god-honest unquestionable truth. Lies are Truth. War is Peace. And so on.


CNN sucks but Trump still lost bud

:shrug:


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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: chopstick]
    #27085460 -



--------------------


my mother said, to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom...whose status is the baddest, everytime 'they' bless the apparatus

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #27085474 -

sh4d0ws said:
chopstick said:
Enlil said:
The problem with your rant is that what you call "establishment lies" are mostly truths that you just don't want to hear.

For instance, remember when you went off the rails about "election fraud" that turned out never to have happened?




Election fraud that never happened. Right. Good thing I don't live in Enlil's version of reality. It's rather tiny in there... not much space to breathe.

In Enlil's world, everything is one dimensional. Everything CNN says is the god-honest unquestionable truth. Lies are Truth. War is Peace. And so on.


CNN sucks but Trump still lost bud

:shrug:



Trump did lose, but not without a massive voter fraud operation to make it happen.

I'm not going to argue with you people about this. Truth is, there was voter fraud and on a large enough scale to sway the election.

If you haven't watched the legislature hearings in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Nevada, then your opinion is largely irrelevant. Go watch them. Now. Otherwise, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

I posted the links in a previous thread, but I'm too lazy right now to go look for them.

It is the duty of all citizens to keep themselves informed.  I shouldn't have to go and waste my time digging up information for all of you, and posting evidence just so that you can continue to deny it, even when that evidence is overwhelming.

If you folks on this forum choose to stay uninformed, and keep yourselves unaware of the hundreds of individual instances of fraud or cheating that took place during the election, that is squarely your fault, not mine. But don't try to deny reality.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: chopstick]
    #27085478 -

I watched them.  I didn't see anything compelling that would ever lead me to assume widespread voter fraud.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: psi]
    #27085481 -

psi said:
Even where judges had been personally appointed by Trump. Just makes zero sense that they would be in on a huge conspiracy against Trump. If they had any way of throwing him a bone within the framework of the law, surely they would have.


I wouldn't say it's a conspiracy. I would say that most judges are either a) too afraid to rule in Trump's favor because they could have their lives threatened by the outrage mob (which has already happened to a good number of the witnesses testifying in Trump's favor, who have literally had the lives of their families threatened should they continue to speak out) or b) haven't allowed any of the actual evidence to be shown in court, instead immediately ruling against it based on political bias rather than the law.

It's unfortunate that Trump can't be given a fair day in court, but it is what it is.

All it means is that roughly half the country, who believe the election was stolen, because they can't even so much as get their day in court will be further justified in believing this election was conducted fraudulently.

SCOTUS should, at the very least, take up one of Trump's cases and let the evidence of the fraud that took place be heard in court, complete with witnesses and everything. If they rule against him, after taking the case and allowing the evidence to be heard, then you would all be able to credibly claim that Trump has "lost" after having his fair day in court. Until that day comes, there is no justice for the American people.

And should that day come, I hereby vow that I will shut up about it forever.

You have my word.

But until then, justice is merely being denied out of fear, shame, cowardice, and arrogance. That's all.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #27085483 -

Enlil said:
I watched them.  I didn't see anything compelling that would ever lead me to assume widespread voter fraud.


I very much doubt that you watched all of them. But even so, Enlil, you would deny literally anything if it fit your narrative. You could have one of the people involved literally give a confession that they counted fraudulent ballots on purpose to swing the election and you would still deny it ever happened. You would claim the person never existed, never gave a confession. You're a master of distorting reality.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: chopstick]
    #27085490 -

and who are these violent mobs? are there fine people on both sides?

why is it that the President of the US is tepid or absent about American on American violence? because he does not give a fuck, that's why

you are as much a part of allowing this bullshit to happen as i am, or are you following Trumps lead and 'taking no responsibility'?


--------------------


my mother said, to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom...whose status is the baddest, everytime 'they' bless the apparatus

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #27085531 -

Enlil said:
The problem with your rant is that what you call "establishment lies" are mostly truths that you just don't want to hear.

For instance, remember when you went off the rails about "election fraud" that turned out never to have happened?


We were talking about Jimmy Dore.  He constantly exposes establishment lies, and to my knowledge never discussed "election fraud".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: chopstick] * 3
    #27085547 -

chopstick said:
Enlil said:
I watched them.  I didn't see anything compelling that would ever lead me to assume widespread voter fraud.


I very much doubt that you watched all of them. But even so, Enlil, you would deny literally anything if it fit your narrative. You could have one of the people involved literally give a confession that they counted fraudulent ballots on purpose to swing the election and you would still deny it ever happened. You would claim the person never existed, never gave a confession. You're a master of distorting reality.


Nah.  I watch testimony all of the time.  I am literally an expert about evidence and how it fits together.  You can assume I'm pushing an agenda, but I'm really not.  I have sincerely been looking for evidence that could lead to a fraud claim, but it hasn't been presented. 

The disconnect here is that laypeople like yourself are easily fooled by details that you didn't know and seem "fishy."  If someone throws enough of those out, you are likely to accept any explanation that someone gives you for all of these fishy details.  It's the same way 9/11 conspiracies thrive. 

Real evidence is something very different, though.  Here, to prove what you're claiming happened, someone has to prove:

1. Votes were counted that shouldn't have been, or
2. Votes were not counted that should have been, and
3. Those votes are numerous and in enough states to change the outcome of the election.

Evidence of this hasn't come forward.  We see a video of containers being pulled out.  We hear about people not being able to watch as closely as they'd like.  We here statistics based on 2016 thrown out.  Where is the evidence showing that fraud occurred, though?

Looking at one claim, for instance...that votes were run through a machine more than once. Okay, so what does that mean?  Does that mean they were counted more than once?  No one has established that fact.  If so, it should be a simple comparison between the total number of ballots and the number of counted votes.  If they're different, maybe there's something to that.  These pieces are missing, though....  All we have is the barefaced claim that ballots were run though a machine more than once.

Another claim: truckloads of ballots were dumped off.  Okay, again, if this is true, that doesn't mean it's fraud.  I assume ballots are moved somehow, and a truck seems like a pretty efficient way to do it.  Where is the evidence that these ballots are invalid.  Also, they can't just be fake ballots, or we'd again have more ballots counted than people who voted. 

The state of the "evidence" presented to the legislators is basically that.  There are maybe a dozen theories, each with one or two pieces of testimony that look "fishy" and that's about it.  No one has marshalled the evidence into a cohesive theory that proves fraud.  That hasn't happened at the hearings, and that hasn't happened in court.  That's why every case has failed so far.

Having said all of the above, you are absolutely free to believe any theory you want.  Many people believe OJ murdered his wife despite it not being proven in court.  My point is not what you should believe and shouldn't.  I am just a man of reason, and I choose to follow the evidence in a logical manner and make decisions based on that.  Right now, the state of the evidence is that there is no indication of fraud and plenty of evidence that the election was largely accurate and fair.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27085548 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Enlil said:
The problem with your rant is that what you call "establishment lies" are mostly truths that you just don't want to hear.

For instance, remember when you went off the rails about "election fraud" that turned out never to have happened?


We were talking about Jimmy Dore.  He constantly exposes establishment lies, and to my knowledge never discussed "election fraud".


Name one "establishment lie" he "exposed."


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27085556 -

bodhisatta said:
Why are you trying to drag me into talking about medicare. I never mentioned it.


You responded to a great idea on how to move Medicare for All to a symbolic vote with a kindeegarten comment about Jimmy Dore, so I assumed you didn't like the idea.

bodhisatta said:
All I'm saying is Jimmy dore is a recruiter for the alt-right by having extremely good optics. so good that he confused you into thinking he was destroying the left and the right. Meanwhile he's just trying to make conservatives feel more planted in their ideas. Moderates to lean more right.
You'll say his criticism is just and necessary. Anyone that can actually make it through a full episode probably feels just like you do fal. Jimmy has you hook line and sinker.

Save yourself the trouble of trying to get me to watch clips to prove me wrong. No one cares. Jimmy is a useless idiot. Maybe one day you'll realize it


:dudewtf:

You'll need to help me to understand why you think he confused my about how to get Medicare for All to a House vote.  It was actually a "Rising" with Krystal Ball clip, who had Jimmy Dore on as a guest.

Can you do better than calling people idiots by explaining specifically why you think so?  I honestly don't mind being called an idiot if you can explain why.  If you don't explain it, I'll request a temporary ban for breaking the rules.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #27085570 -

Enlil said:
Name one "establishment lie" he "exposed."


That there was illegal election collusion between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27085574 -

How is that an establishment lie?  There was evidence of collusion.  An investigation occurred.  No evidence of a crime could be found.  That doesn't make it a lie.  The fact that someone comes to an incorrect hypothesis isn't a lie, dude.

I don't think you even know what a lie is.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27085585 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
bodhisatta said:
Why are you trying to drag me into talking about medicare. I never mentioned it.


You responded to a great idea on how to move Medicare for All to a symbolic vote with a kindeegarten comment about Jimmy Dore, so I assumed you didn't like the idea.

bodhisatta said:
All I'm saying is Jimmy dore is a recruiter for the alt-right by having extremely good optics. so good that he confused you into thinking he was destroying the left and the right. Meanwhile he's just trying to make conservatives feel more planted in their ideas. Moderates to lean more right.
You'll say his criticism is just and necessary. Anyone that can actually make it through a full episode probably feels just like you do fal. Jimmy has you hook line and sinker.

Save yourself the trouble of trying to get me to watch clips to prove me wrong. No one cares. Jimmy is a useless idiot. Maybe one day you'll realize it


:dudewtf:

You'll need to help me to understand why you think he confused my about how to get Medicare for All to a House vote.  It was actually a "Rising" with Krystal Ball clip, who had Jimmy Dore on as a guest.

Can you do better than calling people idiots by explaining specifically why you think so?  I honestly don't mind being called an idiot if you can explain why.  If you don't explain it, I'll request a temporary ban for breaking the rules.


Mind quoting where I called you an idiot?


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27085633 -

You called Jimmy Dore an idiot, and as you know I generally agree with Jimmy Dore (he has me "hook line and sinker").  But you're right, you didn't call me an idiot directly.

Now, do you mind explaining specifically why you think he's an idiot?  Or can you only make generalities?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2024 [Re: Enlil]
    #27085639 -

Enlil said:
How is that an establishment lie?  There was evidence of collusion.  An investigation occurred.  No evidence of a crime could be found.  That doesn't make it a lie.  The fact that someone comes to an incorrect hypothesis isn't a lie, dude.

I don't think you even know what a lie is.


I've had three years of you and most people here calling me a conspiracy nutter for insisting there was no evidence of criminal collusion.  Jimmy agreed with that.  We were right.

If you don't think you were lied to by the media to make you feel that way, you were certainly proven more gullible than Jimmy Dore and me.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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