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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26983746 -

So we all know that Trump has been ignoring "science" in his reluctance to promote lockdowns and haste to re-open. He made his views sound more nuanced by claiming that only the aged and co-morbid population should be protected and everyone else should just carry on as before covid. How irrational and irresponsible, right? Well, have a look at this:

https://unherd.com/2020/10/covid-experts-there-is-another-way/

"Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

(...)

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

(...)

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity"


So, according to these three eminent epidemiologists, the "science" is now coming round (has come round?) to the position Trump has held from the beginning.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26983757 -

How is that trumps position?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26983768 -

The country shouldn't have been shut down for more than a couple weeks. More people are going to die from the shut down than the actual virus. Unfortunately most people can't think logically about anything.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26983769 -

koods said:
How is that trumps position?



How is it not?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Shenmue] * 1
    #26983775 -

Shenmue said:
The country shouldn't have been shut down for more than a couple weeks. More people are going to die from the shut down than the actual virus. Unfortunately most people can't think logically about anything.



This is an emotive situation where the panic-driven media are actually the enemy of reason

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Shenmue]
    #26983777 -

Shenmue said:
The country shouldn't have been shut down for more than a couple weeks. More people are going to die from the shut down than the actual virus. Unfortunately most people can't think logically about anything.



Well that's simply not true.

More people will suffer because of lockdowns though

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26983779 -

Metoo said:
koods said:
How is that trumps position?



How is it not?



Then it should be easy to provide examples of it instead of deflecting

Seriously, I have never heard trump elucidate any policy about tackling covid. It’s nothing but “it will go away in its own”


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (10/13/20 05:50 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26983788 -

bodhisatta said:
Shenmue said:
The country shouldn't have been shut down for more than a couple weeks. More people are going to die from the shut down than the actual virus. Unfortunately most people can't think logically about anything.



Well that's simply not true.

More people will suffer because of lockdowns though



Some of the negative health consequences of lockdowns will take a while to kill. Quoting from the statement linked above:

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice. Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

so we may not know if Shenmue is right for a while

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26983793 -

koods said:
Seriously, I have never heard trump elucidate any policy about tackling covid. It’s nothing but “it will go away in its own”



So you have never heard him talking up the vaccines and therapeutics as the way to go?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26983797 -

I shouldn't have to stay home and lose money just because people are freaked out about a virus. It's not even that deadly! For the most part you have to be old and sick to even die from it. I don't even know anyone that's died from it! There's 700 members in my union and every month we have to pay 10$ for every member that dies. Not one fucking person out of the 700 has died from covid-19!!! So there's no fucking way its as bad as the fake news is telling you!

Edited by Shenmue (10/13/20 05:59 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26983800 -

Metoo said:
koods said:
Seriously, I have never heard trump elucidate any policy about tackling covid. It’s nothing but “it will go away in its own”



So you have never heard him talking up the vaccines and therapeutics as the way to go?



What does talking up vaccines do until they are available?

It’s beyond lazy.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26983804 -

5/15/2020

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vaccine-development/

"We will be reigniting our economic engines.  We’re going to be taking care of our most vulnerable, which are our senior citizens and some others.  We’re going to be working very, very hard on our senior citizens and our nursing homes and various communities to support those that are struggling in this very difficult time.  Others don’t have the same kind of struggle.

(...)

Another essential pillar of our strategy to keep America open is the development of effective treatments and vaccines as quickly as possible.  Want to see if we can do that very quickly.  We’re looking to — when I say “quickly,” we’re looking to get it by the end of the year, if we can.  Maybe before.  We’re doing tremendously well.

(...)

Through a historic series of funding bills, my administration is providing roughly $10 billion to support a medical research effort without parallel.  I especially want to thank Senator Steve Daines of Montana for his incredible work.  He has worked so hard to secure additional funding for vaccine development.  He has been right at the forefront."


This is a reasonably comprehensive strategy for dealing with Covid announced by Trump in May. Glad to be able to point you to the source of information you have missed.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26983806 -

koods said:
What does talking up vaccines do until they are available?




It creates momentum to develop them

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Shenmue]
    #26983809 -

Shenmue said:
I shouldn't have to stay home and lose money just because people are freaked out about a virus. It's not even that deadly! For the most part you have to be old and sick to even die from it. I don't even know anyone that's died from it! There's 700 members in my union and every month we have to pay 10$ for every member that dies. Not one fucking person out of the 700 has died from covid-19!!! So there's no fucking way its as bad as the fake news is telling you!



US mortality is up 20% due to covid. How is that “not deadly?”


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26983814 -

Metoo said:
koods said:
What does talking up vaccines do until they are available?




It creates momentum to develop them



Yoy don’t need a cheerleader to create a vaccine. You need scientists and educated people working on the problem, two things trump is not.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26983815 -

Quote:
"We will be reigniting our economic engines.  We’re going to be taking care of our most vulnerable, which are our senior citizens and some others.  We’re going to be working very, very hard on our senior citizens and our nursing homes and various communities to support those that are struggling in this very difficult time.  Others don’t have the same kind of struggle.



And how did he make this happen? He also says there will be a beautiful healthcare plan coming in two weeks. He’s been saying that for four years


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26983818 -

koods said:
Yoy don’t need a cheerleader to create a vaccine. You need scientists and educated people working on the problem, two things trump is not.



From the May speech:

"From the earliest days of the pandemic, we have marshalled the genius of American scientists and researchers from all across government and the private sector, from academia, from everywhere, to vanquish the virus.  And tremendous strides have been made, I can tell you. I get to see it every day.  Tremendous strides are being made. Scientists at the NIH began developing the first vaccine candidate on January 11th — think of that — within hours of the virus’s genetic code being posted online. So, January 11th.  Most people never even heard what was going on January 11th. And we were out there trying to develop a vaccine, not even knowing what we were up against. Then, my administration cut through every piece of red tape to achieve the fastest-ever, by far, launch of a vaccine trial for this new virus, this very vicious virus. And I want to thank all of the doctors and scientists and researchers involved because they’ve never moved like this, or never even close."

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26983824 -

koods said:
Quote:
"We will be reigniting our economic engines.  We’re going to be taking care of our most vulnerable, which are our senior citizens and some others.  We’re going to be working very, very hard on our senior citizens and our nursing homes and various communities to support those that are struggling in this very difficult time.  Others don’t have the same kind of struggle.



And how did he make this happen? He also says there will be a beautiful healthcare plan coming in two weeks. He’s been saying that for four years



Since you have not come across this transcript before please read carefully before asking more questions. Like with your comments on the scientists, the answers are likely in the text.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26983837 -

Metoo said:
koods said:
Yoy don’t need a cheerleader to create a vaccine. You need scientists and educated people working on the problem, two things trump is not.



From the May speech:

"From the earliest days of the pandemic, we have marshalled the genius of American scientists and researchers from all across government and the private sector, from academia, from everywhere, to vanquish the virus.  And tremendous strides have been made, I can tell you. I get to see it every day.  Tremendous strides are being made. Scientists at the NIH began developing the first vaccine candidate on January 11th — think of that — within hours of the virus’s genetic code being posted online. So, January 11th.  Most people never even heard what was going on January 11th. And we were out there trying to develop a vaccine, not even knowing what we were up against. Then, my administration cut through every piece of red tape to achieve the fastest-ever, by far, launch of a vaccine trial for this new virus, this very vicious virus. And I want to thank all of the doctors and scientists and researchers involved because they’ve never moved like this, or never even close."





That makes the Federal governments not making testing and masks more available look even worse than I had thought. I figured when Wuhan locked down everyone everywhere knew this was a fucking disaster.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: falcon] * 1
    #26983842 -

falcon said:
That makes the Federal governments not making testing and masks more available look even worse than I had thought. I figured when Wuhan locked down everyone everywhere knew this was a fucking disaster.



I agree with you that the testing fiasco is a disgrace in a hi-tech country like the US

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