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OfflineGlastnost
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Bulk guides confusing me - What is the general procedure?
    #2691126 - 05/17/04 02:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, I have been looking at the bulk cultivation guides and I'm getting confused. I can't figure out the general idea behind any of the guides. They focus so much on sterilizing straw, and the other details are kind of hazy.

Like, for instance, I know how to sterilize some straw. I'm going to do the oven-bag dry sterilization; But once I have the sterilized straw, what do I do?

Do I still need regular cakes? Do I still have to go get some 1/2 pint jars and innoculate them PF style? I keep seeing mention of birdseed. Am I going to make some new style jars for this?

I just don't know the OTHER steps behind a bulk grow. I understand how to sterilize straw. What else am I supposed to do?

Thanks! I'm really excited about this.


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Anonymous

Re: Bulk guides confusing me - What is the general procedure [Re: Glastnost]
    #2691163 - 05/17/04 02:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

here's the deal....

you're taking a material which is less nutritious and less prone to contam than grain, and you're preparing a lot of it. because it's less nutritious (and thereby less prone to contams) than grain, you don't need to sterilize it and keep it sterile, but only pasteurize it and keep it clean. this allows you to easily and cheaply produce large amounts, greatly offsetting the reduced amount of nutrients in the material. it also means that instead of inoculating it with spores, you need to use many peices of mycelial tissue which you have already grown (spawn).

you can use straw, manure, or compost. i prefer horse manure. it's always worked for me and straw never has. you will need to pasteurize it. the most common method for doing this is loading it into a pillowcase, tying it off, and then submerging this in 160 degree F water (with weight on top to hold it under) for an hour (use a meat thermometer - $4.99) on the stove or grill. then you let it drain and cool overnight. there are some pictures of the process in the grow logs and pictures forum. you'll get the hang of it. it ain't hard.

to spawn it out, you're gonna use... spawn. this is just grain or PF substrate you've already produced and colonized like normal. you can use crumbled PF cakes as spawn.

you'll mix your colonized spawn in with your pasteurized bulk substrate 4-10 inches deep (1:10 ratio spawn to substrate is good) in a bin, tub, or tray. cover, and let sit for 10-14 days. after it colonized, you case it. after the case run, you pin it. then you find out why it's called a "bulk tek".  :wink:


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OfflineGlastnost
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Re: Bulk guides confusing me - What is the general procedure [Re: ]
    #2691199 - 05/17/04 02:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Alright. That was pretty clear. Got some follow up questions :

1.) You said "you're taking a material which is less nutritious and less prone to contam than grain". When did grain come in in the first place? Grain isn't part of any of the PF-style teks I read (or is it? am I dumb?)

2.) Does the oven-bag technique work for pasteurizing? I would much rather just tie off a couple bags of straw/manure and bake it than boil a pillowcase full of it. That sounds like a bloody mess, and this wont be done at my house. I can't wreck someone's house like that.

3.) It sounds like manure would be the easiest to work with? It probably wouldn't hurt the oven bag like straw would, and would probably be easier to mix with the spawn, yes? Any other pros/cons for the 3 bulk substrates?

4.) Alot of people talked about bird seed, and jars that were not 1/2 pint. They were doing other things? Should I learn how to make a different kind of spawn? Or will the 1/2 pint PF-tek jar be sufficient. We are looking for a pretty huge grow setup, and the 1/2 pints might not be enough? I really don't know.

5.) "you'll mix your colonized spawn in with your pasteurized bulk substrate 4-10 inches deep (1:10 ratio spawn to substrate is good"

Alright, that means that I am going to use 10 times the bulk substrate as spawn, but, by what measure. Weight? Or just volume? How am I doing 1:10.

And with the 4-10 (lets say 8), do I pack it down? Or is it going to sit lightly.


Whew! Pretty big follow-up questions, but I think that will clear it up until the casing part! Thanks for the help.


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: Bulk guides confusing me - What is the general procedure? [Re: Glastnost]
    #2691207 - 05/17/04 02:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If you can't understand the bulk guides....your not ready to do bulk.


--------------------
Yeah spinnin' around again
yea caught in a tailspin


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Bulk guides confusing me - What is the general procedure? [Re: Glastnost]
    #2691234 - 05/17/04 02:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You first need some colonised substrate. This is your starting point. If it were a cake, you could "birth" it, break it up and case it, or SPAWN it.

Spawning is taking your colonised substrate (the cake) and mixing it into dung or straw (the bulk substrate).

The bulk substrate is first pasteurised to kill molds and "bad" bacteria, the pasteurisation process also involves a specific temperature range at which "actinomycetes" flourish. These actinomycetes are beneficial bacteria which help to prevent molds and bad bacteria from taking hold on the straw or manure.

You can spawn at somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-10 ratio of spawn to bulk substrate. After spawning, the substrate is usually colonised rather quickly (usually within a week or so).

You now have approx. 10* the original amount of substrate to work with, and it has only been a week since you took your cakes out of their jars.


--------------------
Study the past...
See the future...


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Bulk guides confusing me - What is the general procedure [Re: Glastnost]
    #2691319 - 05/17/04 03:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Whew! Pretty big follow-up questions, but I think that will clear it up until the casing part! Thanks for the help.




It's covered in the FAQ, not to mention bulk grows in the grow log forums. There's a search function btw.

Quote:

If you can't understand the bulk guides....your not ready to do bulk.




ChiefThunderbong, ain't dat da truth.

Quote:

2.) Does the oven-bag technique work for pasteurizing? I would much rather just tie off a couple bags of straw/manure and bake it than boil a pillowcase full of it. That sounds like a bloody mess, and this wont be done at my house. I can't wreck someone's house like that.




You're less likely to pasteurise the quantities you want in a conventional oven with oven bags since the run times are longer, than running an assembly line of pillow cases to a big pot at 45 mins to 60 mins at 160f to 170f with a kettle to top it up at each bag removal. Drain in the sink, no mess. If you structure the grow in increments, you'll have set tasks everyday and tub turnovers. Just like mothers, clones and 12/12 bud cycles.

Quote:

We are looking for a pretty huge grow setup, and the 1/2 pints might not be enough? I really don't know.




Why is it greed and the de$ire to the bigger picture is always the motive, rather than the steady path? This is seen a lot at Overgrow as well, I wanna run thousands of watts of HID, tell me how!!! Start small, work up. You'll be happier and you'll teach yourself. Read/lurk the boards.


--------------------
Convert Metric and Imperial.


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Anonymous

Re: Bulk guides confusing me - What is the general procedure [Re: Glastnost]
    #2691396 - 05/17/04 03:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)


1.) You said "you're taking a material which is less nutritious and less prone to contam than grain". When did grain come in in the first place? Grain isn't part of any of the PF-style teks I read (or is it? am I dumb?)


rice is used in the PF substrate.

2.) Does the oven-bag technique work for pasteurizing? I would much rather just tie off a couple bags of straw/manure and bake it than boil a pillowcase full of it. That sounds like a bloody mess, and this wont be done at my house. I can't wreck someone's house like that.

i've never done the oven-bag tek, but others swear by it.

3.) It sounds like manure would be the easiest to work with? It probably wouldn't hurt the oven bag like straw would, and would probably be easier to mix with the spawn, yes? Any other pros/cons for the 3 bulk substrates?

indeed. compost is best, then poo, then straw. good mushroom compost can be hard to find cheap enough. poo works well enough and i get it for free.

4.) Alot of people talked about bird seed, and jars that were not 1/2 pint. They were doing other things? Should I learn how to make a different kind of spawn? Or will the 1/2 pint PF-tek jar be sufficient. We are looking for a pretty huge grow setup, and the 1/2 pints might not be enough? I really don't know.

it easier to make large amounts of spawn using whole grains and larger jars than to use the PF-tek. it's faster, less messy, uses less inoculant, and is less tedious. the PF-tek will work just fine for producing spawn though.


Alright, that means that I am going to use 10 times the bulk substrate as spawn, but, by what measure. Weight? Or just volume? How am I doing 1:10.

And with the 4-10 (lets say 8), do I pack it down? Or is it going to sit lightly.


volume. you'll pack it down if you're using straw. if not, you won't.

it sounds to me like you've never done anything above and beyond the PF-tek before.

if that is the case, tackling bulk teks right now may be a bit much. the next step for you may be to get a pressure cooker and learn how to prepare whole grains, at the same time learning how to do casings. you'll need to know how to do casings at the very least before you go attempting bulk.

right now, a bulk grow would require many new mycological skill sets.... you're better learning and perfecting them one at a time.

my suggestion is to read up on whole grains and casing. try doing some cased grains. after you have that down, it's just a little step up to bulk. right now, it'd be a pretty big leap.


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