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InvisibleBrownPastures
old hand

Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Humidity]
    #265406 - 03/16/01 05:30 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

for all of those in the not in the know this is how it goes.... antidepressants... (make those of us who are or were striken with depression feel better).... make the mushroom tripping a real bummer... i.e. you dont really trip that much .... if you are taking antidepressants (which stimulate serotonin production in the brain)
the receptors in your brain are already over saturated... i know this makes no sense to you "skimmers" but think that 1 over : )



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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency?
    #265647 - 03/04/01 03:47 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Tryptamine

Seratonin

For some reason I could not edit my post.




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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Anonymous

Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Humidity]
    #266825 - 03/06/01 01:23 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Seratonin would decrease the potency, effective potency, of the shrooms. The hallucinogenic properties of shrooms are competing for seratonin receptor sites. If your shrooms have a higher concentration of seratonin, this would inhibit that competetion.



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OfflineCuber
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Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 2
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: ]
    #267733 - 03/07/01 07:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Firstly, I believe the idea is not to have the shrooms produce serotonin but to see if shrooms metabolize the supplement to produce psiloc(yb)in (in a similar way to as tryptamine is).

Secondly, on the chance that the shrooms absorb serotonin as is or metabolize any serotonin precursor such as 5HTP or tryptophan into serotonin, the serotonin produced would not compete for serotonin receptor sites as serotonin does not cross the blood brain barrier easily. Free serotonin in the blood and gut can cause nausea in some people however.



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Anonymous

Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Cuber]
    #267847 - 03/07/01 10:37 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

According to Humidity's link, Seratonin doesn't lead to Psilocybin, or Psilocin. And If you add enough of it to the substrate, it will be in the shrooms. Not manufactured there, but drawn as is from the substrate. If this stuff isn't absorbed into the body why is it prescribed by doctors, and also available in health food stores as a supplement. Seratonin that is not Tryptophan, Tryptamine, Hydroxy Tryptophan. How would this stuff increase the potency of shrooms, without first being broken back down into hydroxy Tryptophan, which would then have to be broken down into Tryptophan, then it could be metabolised into the substances we want. LETS JUST GROW MORE POTENT SPECIES, Sound good!!!!!!!!!!!! I think we are all way over our heads here, myself included of course!!!!!!! P. mexicana, Pan. Cyan, P. azure, sounds great to me.



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OfflineCuber
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Registered: 07/13/00
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Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: ]
    #269306 - 03/10/01 10:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Humidity's images say nothing about psilocybe mushrooms being able to convert serotonin to psilocin or psilocybin - they only show that serotonin is 5-hydroxy-tryptamine. For all we know, psilocybe mushrooms may be able remove the OH from serotonin to produce tryptamine in which case adding serotonin directly would probably give similar effects to adding tryptamine. Even if this were not true, there is no guarantee that the serotonin you add to the sustrate would not be metabolized to something different or even not be absorbed at all.

Serotonin is not prescribed by doctors - nor is it readily available in health food stores. As I mentioned earlier, serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier - it is too polar. That is why tryptophan and 5-hydroxy-tryptophan are used as serotonin *supplements* - tryptophan can be converted to 5HTP which does cross the blood-brain barrier where it is then converted to 5HT (serotonin).

All this aside, talking about adding serotonin itself to the substrate is ridiculous. Shroomism was talking about adding serotonin supplements (such as tryptophan and 5HTP).



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Offlinepriest
Stranger
Registered: 02/12/01
Posts: 6
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Cuber]
    #270963 - 03/13/01 02:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

the indole nucleus in Serotonin consisting of phenyl and pyrrol segments (the parts that are the same in Humidity's diagrams) are found in several alkaloids, of these is include: Psilocin, LSD25, Harmaline, Harmine, and N,N-dimethyltryptamine. Though Mescaline doesn't contain the indole nucleus, it does have an identical side chain found in Serotonin. Alas, I don't know what I am talking about and the words keep coming out through my fingers so I'll shut up for now. This is all very interesting. Good-bye, for I must now return to class. God, High school sucks--I can't wait for college.



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OfflineShroomAngel
newbie

Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 19
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: priest]
    #271027 - 03/13/01 04:19 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

what if you took a tryptophan supplement at the same time as eating your shrooms? That would force your body to produce more seratonin and would give you a larer supply to draw from, intensifying and prolonging your trip. Yes?
Well it works with E and since MDMA and psilocin are similar in chemical construction, it might work with shrooms. any thoughts?

You're Gonna Do WHAT??


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The above was a dream. I take no responsibility for the use of the information that a FOAF provides me with.
You're Gonna Do WHAT??
[email]ShroomAngel@BongMail.com[/email]


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OfflineRxwoman
member
Registered: 10/28/00
Posts: 33
Loc: the great plains, USA.
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: ShroomAngel]
    #272491 - 03/15/01 05:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Um, I've never heard of anyone being prescribed seratonin. when a person is low on this brain chemical, the standard therapy is to prescribe a seratonin re-uptake inhibitor, an anti-depressant like paxil , wellbutrin, meridea, and good ol' prozac. I would have to wonder if the addition of just the serotonin ( if that is possible) would simply be broken down and absorbed by the re-uptake receptors. Any pharmacists in the forum?




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OfflineShroomAngel
newbie

Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 19
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Rxwoman]
    #273105 - 03/16/01 02:36 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

When someone is low on seratonin they take a natural supplement called tryptophan. It is the amino acid that your body metabolizes to create a store of seratonin.



You're Gonna Do WHAT??


--------------------
_____
The above was a dream. I take no responsibility for the use of the information that a FOAF provides me with.
You're Gonna Do WHAT??
[email]ShroomAngel@BongMail.com[/email]


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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: ShroomAngel]
    #273133 - 03/16/01 03:04 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

The problem with Seratonin and many of the other suppliment Ideas is that they are not easly available to buy. I think that the Phlaras grass idea has the best potential since the seeds are available and N,N-dimethyltryptamine is the precuser to psilocybin. The problem with that idea is it is a plant and plants take time to grow, so unless you are going to re-plant your lawn with phlaras seed you will not have enough to increase potency that much.



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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Anonymous

Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Humidity]
    #273185 - 03/16/01 04:17 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I have tried adding Hydroxy Tryptophan to the substrate, and as I said before, it did not really increase potency. For lack of a better descriptive explanation, the trip felt a little heady. If I had to give an analogy it felt more like an indica bud versus an sativa bud. Not as visual. This hole disscussion is abstact at best. Depending on were you live in this country or world, supplements are easy or hard to get. Everybody here has an opinion, but that is all it is. Gartz, added pure Tryptamine to his substrate to increase potency, not precursors. Anyone can read a Biochemistry book and make guesses, that is all they are. None of us have access to the equipment or licenses necessary to procure or use, or test our hypothesis. I tried, I ate , and it did nothing exceptional. It did however make my cultures more vigorous, and healthy looking, for what ever reason. It would only be a guess to state a reason.



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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Humidity]
    #273187 - 03/16/01 04:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Check out this post I put up recently, it talks about possibly ways to increase potency by nutrient limitation and micronutrients.

"Gartz, added pure Tryptamine to his substrate to increase potency, not precursors" Teonan

pure tryptamine is a precursor

Edited by Humidity on 03/16/01 04:25 PM.



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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Anonymous

Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: BrownPastures]
    #273465 - 03/17/01 01:56 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Many antidepressants are mao inhibiters(maoi) , which is equivalent to Syrian Rue, except really concentrated. According to much hearsay, these would actually potentiate the experience.



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InvisibleTeragon
Noddy

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 36,253
Loc: Lost in the Patterns
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: BrownPastures]
    #273687 - 03/17/01 02:41 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

BrownPastures:
Not all antidepressants(if any?) stimulate the production of serotonin in your brain. I know that some antidepressants(Prozac) lock into serotonin reuptake receptors "before" serotonin, because it has a higher affinity for this than serotonin. This stops serotonin from "leaving" the synapse, resulting in a higher concentration of serotonin in the synapse. This is how antidepressants (at least Prozac) works.

Peace- Teragon



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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Registered: 03/16/01
Posts: 968
Loc: here
Re: Seratonin Supplement to increase potency? [Re: Teragon]
    #273745 - 03/17/01 04:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for explaining what i said back there... i was kind of trying to say that those medications saturate the synapses and dont allow for enough of the shroom chemical to lock in.... i think that's what happens ... at least it's what happens to me... :smile:



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