vault123 said:
Amen Tantrika.
While I was reading about the description of your experience it reminded me of this video of Elon Musk.
Which he just says that it feels like consciousness is in a different dimension. I thought that was exactly right. That is what consciousness feels like. I was having a conversation the other day and I said “consciousness serves no purpose, from a strictly reproductive capacity.” As I’m sure most people realize at some point that there are many creatures that successfully reproduce without requiring consciousness.
From an evolutionary perspective success is measured simply by whether an organism successfully reproduces or not. No where in there is consciousness required. Evolution can’t afford to just go evolving traits that aren’t needed for survival, any traits that aren’t useful are quickly pruned out. I’ve heard some fringe theories that consciousness emerged from hallucinogenic mushroom use, but those aren’t mainstream.
So anyways, evolution doesn’t sufficiently explain the emergence of consciousness to the degree that I liked, but this description by Elon Musk did. What I liked about it best is that it is falsifiable. He goes on to say that if the brain is damaged in affects the consciousness of the person whose brain was damaged, which would indicate or at least imply, that it is a physical property from this dimension.
...
Yeah, the whole "problem of conciousness" is a big one
and do like the way he describes it, with the acceptance he has that it may not be wholly accurate
a lot of my explorations of conciousness were through a lens of Hindu and Buddhist beliefs
and one of the big problems that always comes up for me is that there is a sort of language barrier; a lot of terminology does not cleanly translate, and a lot of time is wasted on trying to explain concepts
while not giving a robust talk on the matter, very much appreciate his ability to convey the sentiment in common language
for me, this is where the topic of a universal conciousness arises
where humans have a degree of reflective conciousness because the universe needs for us to in order to have the experiences we can
whereas that sort of seemingly concious awareness that shows up in groups of birds moving in unison is almost like conciousness itself moving through them as a wave
Hinduism has a concept that "the Atman is the Brahman"
which means that the awareness that seems to be operating as a guiding force behind the physical-psychological individual (the Atman)
is simultaneously a shrunken-scale reflection of the Universal Conciousness (Brahman) as well as a piece of it
while not a satisfactory explanation for the phenomenon of brain damage and skewed conciousness
it does seem to suggest that degrees of proper physical alignment or disalignment results in an engagement with conciousness in a different way
this interests me, because while we do not get to have detailed medical records from early societies, the language that did come down to us suggests observances of the same problems
and struggles with the philisophical implications
wanted to also make some commont about how Buddhisms classification system of experience places Mind alongside physical characteristics
but cannot remember where my train of thought was going >.<
vault123 said:
...
So regarding what you were saying about a disconnect from what you were experiencing and from what others around you seemed to be experiencing, I feel like I know exactly what you’re talking about. Sometimes when I try to ask other people about it they have no idea what I’m talking about. The description of your experience sounds a lot like my own.
In terms of self love and presence in the body. That is fantastic you were able to find comfort in your own identity. I find that I’m very critical of myself. I’m not sure if this is biological or a result of a lived experience, but I dream up this idealistic image of myself and if I don’t meet it I hate myself for it. Do you ever have this thought that you’re not good enough, no matter what you do your entire life you’ll never be good enough?
...
the sense of not being good enough has been a longtime part of my life and still arises for me
there is a particularly dysphoria-causing scar carved into my right thigh as "Bad Son" in my struggles with my parents divorce and later animosity to each other in my high school years
have found a lot of reduction to that in accepting myself as a woman
there are certainly times, sometimes through outside influence or sometimes through inner influence,
where there is a feeling of not only never being good enough for me, but also being an imposter in a community of individuals
but, generally speaking, have a peace and connection now to my experience of being "in" my body
used to push myself at the gym, straining and trying to reach a point of the social representative perfection of masculinity,
in a hopes that shedding off excess pounds and defining muscle would make me feel like having carved away my bad parts and left myself with a statuesque Greek God sort of thing
needless to say, it did not; and perhaps the level of defeat felt in that really helped to assert it was not the right path for me to be on
despite having no idea of what the right path may end up being at that point
vault123 said:
...
As far as presence in the body goes. I have never been present anywhere but my body. Sometimes I feel like I’m trapped in a fleshy prison. Like it’s just a container to house my true conscious mind. I’ve never had anything close to an OBE so I’ve only read about those.
...
a disconnect from my body was one of my earliest characteristics
but it got to its worst around the age of 12-13 when it resulted in me starting self mutilation
or, rather, a feeling of being too far from my body had me invoke my first self-mutilation
then the school counselor saw the scar, and started giving me examples of why people cut
and it was me who seized upon the concept presented that the bleeding made me temporarily feel real
avoided drugs all through junior high and high school
but would lay in my bed cutting parts of my body open and sucking out blood for hours, then cover myself up in long sleeves and pants no matter the weather
vault123 said:
...
During conversation, do you ever get the impression that the person you’re talking to either doesn’t recognize the existence of their own consciousness, or may not have one entirely? Sometimes I even get this impression from people I know who are smart. It’s like they live their entire lives in the physical world simply responding to one stimulus or another, without even a hint of a thought deeper than what their limbic system is immediately demanding.
Sometimes this makes me think that it must be a relief to only have to deal in the physical world with physical wants and needs. On that same note, I pity what those pour souls seem to be incapable of grasping. Like trying to explain color to someone who has never seen before.
In the early 2000s, a number of my then friend group referred to these people as NPCs
caught up in a routine without reflection; upon talking to them it would be a seeming lack of self awareness coupled with a tendency to repeat the same stories, the same way, for the same reason
on every instance of talking with them
like NPCs
Used to personally feel judgemental towards them, but then was exposed to historical philisophical debates in Buddhism over the concept of the Icchantika as a philisophical problem
this was the idea that there may be sentient beings completely unable of attaining enlightenment
as enlightenment was often considered in philisophical systems to be a sort of waking up from the contemporary cultural system, this goes on to suggest a perception of people so embedded in day-to-day life they have no reflection
like NPCs
have come to more presently try to maintain an interpretative lens that the reason for their disconnect is one of my being unable to resonate at their same wavelength
they may well be awakened and experiencing things on a level that is meaningful to the broader universe
even if it cannot be seen/shared in from my individual point of conciousness
while prolly not providing anything particularly insightful or meaningful with this reply
would like to end off with saying that your final reference to colour is a particularly appreciated one for my own reflection
as have been ruminating lately on how there are colours outside of the experiences afforded to us with the human eye
a fully concious insect would have no means to describe to me the array of light it is able to perceive laying in front of me and obscured from my vision
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