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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals
    #26177143 -

Hello mods! I wasn't sure whether to post here or in getting started, but I envision this thread as a sort of journal beginner question hybrid. I have a whole bunch of questions, but I want to record the process from getting started to harvesting fruits, as well as the choices made. Please move the thread if you find it fits better somewhere else.

Hello everyone! I've been lurking for years now, and finally I'm getting ready to start cultivating some mushrooms. My plan is to grow reishi, lion's mane, shiitake, Phellinus igniarius, and oysters. Reishi, lion's mane, and Phellinus igniarius I want to grow specifically to help out some friends and family members with MS. I also plan to give mushrooms to my grandparents for blood pressure, vitamin b deficiency, and to help out with being old in general. Oysters help out with that, but I'm also growing them to get some quick experience and delicious mushrooms.
To source the cultures I've contacted a local lab, and they're able to provide me with everything except Phellinus igniarius, but I'm working on acquiring either spores or a clone from wild specimens. They also have Cordyceps militaris, so that could be nice sometimes in the future. Of the oyster species they have grey, blue, gold, king, and they'll soon have giant. I'm thinking about getting blue, gold, and king oysters. I'm undecided about gold oysters because they require higher temperatures to fruit, and since I'll be fruiting them outside I doubt they'll have the required conditions, but then again it usually isn't this hot this time of year, so global warming and all that. 

I'll be getting jars of colonised grain (they're the cheapest option) and then transfering them to fruiting substrate. I'll also take a few agar samples at this time. For the substrate I've got a bag of beech sawdust and shavings you can see here https://imgur.com/a/Gx2o6tE. I got it for free, but there are a few discoloured patches, but I'm not sure if it's some contam or just moisture from the rain. Should I be worried, and should I open the bag to let it dry out faster? Will it even matter after sterilisation? I'm thinking about using only this for some of the oysters, and enriched sawdust (Stamets (wood chips, sawdust, bran, gypsum)) for everything else (including some oysters to see the difference). I can't find beech wood chips, but I can get mulch made from deciduous trees (probably hardwoods). Is that ok?

I'm thinking about using Una's spawn bag Tek to house the substrate during colonisation (https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/562556/an/0/page/0/). Can I safely transfer the grains to sawdust in these bags inside a SAB? I think it should be fine if I wipe everything I'll touch with alcohol and spray the rest with soap water.

For bag sterilisation I'll use an old 7l PC you can see in one of my previous posts. There I was suggested to PC grains for 2hrs and substrate for 3 1/2 to 4hrs. Does this sound right for this substrate? How long should I PC agar?

I plan to fruit the oysters on my balcony due to the amount of spores and somewhat ok weather (late summer 23-29C but getting colder).
Others I plan to fruit in a shelf Martha tent. I have a shelf with metal vertical bits, and wooden horizontal ones. So I'm thinking about making new horizontal ones to allow me to use the maximum width possible. Can I use something like plywood, or only metal? I plan to surround the shelf with pvc piping used to stretch some thicker nylon. Some PC fans for FAE, and probably a humidifier. As for exhaust I'm thinking either holes stuffed with polyfill on each level, or an exhaust fan on the bottom to pull out CO2. Can either of these methods be safely used in a room without venting to the outside. I might be able to figure something out and exhaust to the outside, but it's really not ideal. I'm thinking polyfill holes should filter enough of the spores for them not to be a problem.



This was the general outline of the plan. Would you suggest anything at any part of the process? Most importantly, do you have anything to suggest about the bags and substrate? I need to start PCing them as fast as possible since it's only 7l and I'll possibly be able to do maybe 2 sterilisations a day, and I'll also have to have agar ready when the jars arrive. On that note can I use polyfill instead of micropore for Pasty plates? I'm having a hard time finding it. I might be able to get some whatman papers and filters for future projects, but that will most likely require me to go to another city.

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals [Re: Haski]
    #26177236 -

Not to be in any way dismotivating to your  mushroom cultivation proyect. But a whole food plant based diet (and fungi why not) qould help them with all of that right away and have a more radical effect on their overall health be it MS, vitamin deficiency , high blood pressure and/ir old age.

Nedless to say that going through that gigantic hassle of growing a wide variety would take quite a bit of time to even get started.

Not a mushroom related question but an appropiate answer


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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals [Re: Sankhara]
    #26177283 -

Thank you for the suggestions, but have you tried to change old people's diets? It's impossible unless they're minor changes advised by doctors like eat less salt. My grandmother has been cooking the same traditional meals her whole life, and she learned how to from her parents.

With that in mind, it's still a pretty healthy diet. Lots of vegetables, some meat, and plenty of meals that were cooked for a long time, and all of that with as little oil or salt as possible.

As for MS I kind of doubt a change in diet will allow someone to get out of bed. Cannaoil would do that pretty quickly, but it's illegal, and people are getting draconic punishments for making oil for cancer, epilepsy, and MS patients. Since I don't want to land in jail for a decade or two, I'd rather produce mushrooms that have compounds that target myelin, and protect and regenerate brain in general, and combine them with mushrooms that help regulate the immune system. Also, due to their different medications (some quite experimental) all dietary changes need to be cleared with the doctors and monitored. And they already have restrictions and guidelines in place.

Yeah, the amount of species is quite daunting, but if I've done my research correctly I can use the same substrate and similar fruiting conditions for everything except oysters. And they colonise at different rates so I'm hoping that will ease up on the work load.

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals [Re: Haski]
    #26177300 -

If they care about their health and are adequately educated about the effects of diet on disease i dont see why they wouldnt make the change. Assuming you live in First World countries i have no doubt you could get in touch with a specialized plant based doctor or a plant based nutritionist who would educate their patients acordingly to their needs.

Most doctors have little to NO bsckground in nutrition whatsoever, so nutritional advice should be picked with a grain of salt.

Also if you are planning on feeding them mushrooms they are going to have to change their diet anyways.

Treating MS with diet. Animal protein is associated with the disease

https://nutritionfacts.org/2014/07/22/how-to-treat-multiple-sclerosis-with-diet/

Thats all i have to say, i know its off topic and maybe even against the rules, but it had to be said


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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals [Re: Sankhara]
    #26177390 -

MS people could be persuaded, and I'll check it out and pass along. Thank you.

You assume too much. I couldn't get them to believe that you can be healthy without meat when I was trying to be vegetarian, no matter the sources or expertise or statistics. In any case convincing them to add mushrooms to some of the recipes and drinking tea will be much easier than to change their whole diet. And considering they're in their 80s and in pretty good health there's no need for major changes.

All in all, this is waaay off topic. G2G PC

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals [Re: Haski]
    #26183725 -

So, an update is in order. I've spent the last 3 days sterilising 11 Petri's, yes you've read that correctly. My PC is too small and the pp5 dishes are too large (30 and 40ml) so I could only load 4 at a time. To make the matters worse I've lost like 4-5 to water while figuring out the correct level required.

Because the agar I found contains maltodextrin I made some of the Petri's with a drop of honey and some without. Also I used polyfill instead of micropore. PCd them for 40mins and left to cool either over night or as long as possible.

Today I loaded a doubled up oven bag with 350g sawdust-shavings, 35g wheat bran, and 3.7g gypsum. Does that mixture seem ok to you? For the next run I'll probably try adding more of the substrate next time because there was still some room left. I think I might be able to fit a 500g block in there. I folded the tipa of the bags as tightly as possible and then secured them with those metal clips. They're currently in the PC, and will stay for 4hrs total. How much spawn would you suggest for bags of this size?

Since PCing any normal amount of bags will take ages, can you suggest a pasteurisation method I could use? I have much larger pots, and even a canning pot that feeds steam to another pot. I've read that I could pasteurise sawdust and alfalfa, but can't find the Tek anywhere.

PS
I was sure I posted this in gourmet and medicinals, don't know how it appeared in mushroom cultivation.

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals [Re: Haski]
    #26185510 -

First run has failed. There was a tiny amount of free water in the bag. I suppose it came in during cooking because before bagging I tested the substrate and couldn't squeeze any water out of it. Since it's only a tiny amount, I'll try to pour it out before inoculating, but I don't have that much hope for it.

Today I've made a bag with 500g sawdust-shavings, 50g wheat bran, and 6g gypsum. To prevent any water getting in, I've tried the inner bag with clips, and twisted and tied the outer. I hope it'll stay dry this time.

Since the preparations are taking this long I'll probably skip the oysters for now, and focus on the medicinals.

I've checked yesterday and a 23qt presto that costs $85 would cost over $400 due to shipping and taxes. And there aren't any large PCs on German, UK, and Spanish Amazon. Fucking great...

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals [Re: Haski]
    #26187400 -

The second bag had some moisture in the outer bag, but I hope this one will be successful. Because of this I've loaded a new bag 500/50/6, twisted and tied the inner bag, and heat sealed the outer. I also added less water than in the previous  bags. I hope this will keep the bags dry, bit I don't have that much faith in the seal, the bags just seem too thin.

On another note, I've found that RR steams his bags for 8hrs at 1psi(even less if I understood correctly). So, since I have a larger pot, I'll try that out tonight.

Does anyone know how long do you need to PC enriched sawdust at 8psi?

Edit: I've figured out how the water got into the outer bag. There was a tiny rip in the seam at the bottom. I've "milked" the remaining water out of it before putting it back into the fridge. I'll replace the outer bag when transfering spawn. Can I use alcohol to clean the new bag?

Edited by Haski (09/14/19 08:26 AM)

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals (moved) [Re: Haski]
    #26187561 -

This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.

Reason:
Appropriate location

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals (moved) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26187737 -

It sounds to me like if you are serious about this? You need to start off by building a steamer. Doing your sterilizations the way you are doing them. Will cause you to give up quickly. I am sure you can find the parts locally or on amazon. I built my 1st 55-gallon steamer for like $150. It costs me like $1.80 to run 20 bags. I am sure it is costing way more than that the way you are doing it for way fewer bags.

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals (moved) [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26188029 -

I agree completely. Churning out 1-2 bags a day at the cost of 4-8hrs of running the stove is going to make for a fun surprise at the end of the month. If PF style steaming won't require me to add more water it's going to be a lot cheaper because I could run it at night during cheap electricity hours. But it's still only 2 bags a night.

How are you heating it up? The biggest problem is that I'm limited on space. I could maybe make an electric steamer and run it on the balcony, but I can't light a fire that's for sure.

By the way, do you know if there are any downsides to using way too much spawn per bag? I'll be getting 1l jars because that's the smallest they're selling. Could I use it to spawn 2-3 bags instead of 10 to at least see faults in my Tek before I make 30 bags and realise I used too much water for example?

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals (moved) [Re: Haski]
    #26188095 -

Don't use jars use mushroom bags if you can get them. I use 0.5-micron bags for spawn and sub bags. Then I use this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-ounce-Spoodle-Portion-Control-Spoon-Ladle-Server-Green-Handle-Choose-Style/193049445552?hash=item2cf2a4c4b0:m:m-hhuZrM0nTRxQvWxaY1AiQ

I use one scoop per 5 to 6 lb bag. I get from 1.5 to 2 lbs of oysters off said bags.

If using a still air box you will probably need to double it up to make it tall enough.

Moisture content


just measure everything out by weight. So you know how much of everything you are putting in. Then use a microwave or oven to see how much water you have in the sub. I use 60% moisture...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18213971

Why guess at moisture content when there is a reliable way to get it right every time.

Then write down your recipe. Now you will have the same moisture content every time which should be between 55 and 60%

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals (moved) [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26188297 -

I'm buying colonised grain jars from a lab because that's the cheapest option to get the cultures. After I get agar clones and prints going I'll start making my own spawn. Why do you prefer bags for spawn?

Thank you, I'll have to do that before making any more bags.

I've just read your steamer Tek and this is some great stuff. I'll have to make a steamer sometimes in the future.

For now, I found a 17l PC for about $40, but it only goes up to 8psi. How long would I have to sterilise the substrate or grains for?

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Re: Haski begins growing gourmets and medicinals (moved) [Re: Haski]
    #26188345 -

8 PSI would be about 235F. But I don't know how long to tell you to cook. I like spawn bags because I can do more spawn in a smaller space. It is easy to use a spoodle to measure out the right amount of spawn for each bag. Using a spoodle cuts down my time spawning by a lot.

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