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First time grow... confused about some of the stages...
    #26158790 -

Hey guys...

So Ive decided to use a rye grain grow. Im using 27 quart Sterilite tubs and trying 4 strains : PESA(amazonians), Golden teacher, F+ and another african strain (SAT).

Anyways, ive gone through the soaking and sterilization process... and have inoculated all strains in a SAB.

Im pretty sure ive done everything right as the F+ has REALLY taken off much much quicker than all the rest. Everything was innoc'd August 15th.

The F+ jars are all white... well, mostly white. But ive noticed now that besides looking like its just white fuzzies, it looks like there are little spider legs kind of starting to form now? They almost look like the "spokes" or whatever that grows on agar plates from the research ive done.  It cant start pinning or fruiting while its still in the jar with no substrate right? How long do I have before I need to transfer to the substrate?  Was planning on doing coir, verm and coffee but I dont know how much coffee grounds I should put in for the substrate? The recipe I have for my tubs are 1 brick of coir, 1 quart of verm, and 2 coffee filters worth of grounds, but I got a big bag of grounds from starbucks so I dont know how to properly measure it?  Is it something like 1 cup grounds per quart of spawn?

For the whole setup Im doing 4 quarts of spawn per tub, 5 tubs total.

So my question is first of all am I ready to transfer the F+ into the substrate yet, or do I need to wait any longer for any reason?  Secondly... its been 2 weeks since initial innoc. and a majority of the other strains either have not gotten any white fuzzies at all, or 1 out of the 4 jars just started showing small signs of growth.  How long will I need to wait to see if its going to continue to grow?  At any point will I just need to toss them and chalk it up to the spores not going to be able to grow?  If thats the case should I try to do a g2g with the jars that do end up with growth and go from there?  As of now I dont see any green or black stuff so Im pretty sure everything was done right but I have no experience with this.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, and yes ive used the search feature as much as I can to find information but couldnt really find what I was looking for.

TIA.




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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26158974 -

They can pin in the jars, the strands you mention is rizo growth it's normal, you spawn when the jar is all white if you didn't shake them you do that at 30% then spawn after they are all white. This being your first time I would leave out the coffe just use coir or coir/verm and somtimes it takes longer for spores to germinate 2 weeks is not unheard of. Let them grow as long as you see progress and shaking at 30% will tell you a lot about it based on how or if it recovers well. I would probably do a 1-2 mix so for every quart of spawn put in 2 quarts of your substrate. Oh and btw the jar on the left does look a little bacterial but you can still use it I usually try to put any questionable jars in the same tub and my best looking ones in they're own tub. Bacterial jars will still fruit as long as it's not just stank so if it smells bad chuck it otherwise you can get a little out of it I only suggest that if you don't have plenty of jars to use and mold is a instant throw out. Most of the time new growers are spawning bacterial jars anyway cause they don't look real bad or smell but anyway I think I covered your questions good luck.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24297804

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: Hillbillyjohn]
    #26159080 -

Looks like you prepped your grain a tad on the wet side. Introducing spores to grain is a risky game as spores are almost never completely clean. Introducing them to overly hydrated grain is doubly risky as it'll give the nasties a better environment to flourish and dominate your spawn.

Hillbilly's comments are sound. The colonized jar does seem very bacterial. Absolutely do NOT G2G that sucker. My best advice would be to start reading up on agar, top fruit that bacterial jar and take some clones. Also start some spore germination on agar and dry your grain better next time.


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26159545 -

ok cool... im gonna start to see if I can find the TEK for the top fruiting stuff along with the cloning stuff. When I go through that process I assume I dont need to be super sterile since the jar will be open to air other than having the bag over it? Did some reading on other peoples top fruiting posts but didnt actually see a TEK thread yet.

So here are 3 other pics... first one is golden teacher, everything looks good to me, nice bright white and not moist at all... thats what we look for right?


Second picture is the PESA... it was prob about 25% white before so I shook it up a little while ago, and now it looks like its slowly spreading to the rest of the jar little by little, but still wanted to get your guys' opinion.


Third picture is a different GT jar from a second syringe I used to innoc... Im assuming this is probably no good? 


Also is there a TEK to do agar from grain innoc or does it have to be from a syringe? Want to set up agar dishes so I can keep things around for longer, along with knowing that I have a dish that has no contam.

Thanks again for all your help!

Edited by mushman1017 (08/29/19 07:10 PM)

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26159564 -

First two look good, third looks fucked


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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26159992 -

mushman1017 said:
Also is there a TEK to do agar from grain innoc or does it have to be from a syringe? Want to set up agar dishes so I can keep things around for longer, along with knowing that I have a dish that has no contam.

Thanks again for all your help!



If you have a jar of CLEAN grain spawn preferably started with agar or clean lc you should be able to transfer a grain to agar without any issues. Agar is also great because if a little contams slip into the plate you can usually isolate a clean section and perform another transfer.


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Edited by Dr. AwkwarD (08/29/19 10:55 PM)

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: Dr. AwkwarD]
    #26170444 -

So the F+ jars that were all white... started going green, right after I created the coco/verm/coffee substrate, but thankfully I realized it before I transfered them over... so I just ended up tossing them.

So now Im down to 4 sets of jars (4 jars each, 16 total).

this first picture is of the PESA... its the only one of the PESA that has anything colonized... But im concerned in this picture, does it look like its starting to go green also?


In these second and third pics, its the GT... 2nd pic looks like it might have something bad going on but cant tell if its green or just shadowing from the rye behind the myc? 


And here everything looks white so I think its ok so far... prob gonna get ready to shake it up?


Lastly, in this photo... all the other jars look like this. Pretty much just not doing anything. Is it time to just toss anything thats not innoc'd yet and start over? Is the whole run ive done pretty much just shit and gone to waste? Innoc started august 15th for reference...


I can understand the frustration of contam's now... only thing I can think of why it got contam'd is when I PC'ed the jars, even though I had aluminum foil covering the jar half way down, after I removed it there were beads of water sitting on the top of the tyvek. Do you think thats where the nasties maybe came from? LIke after making my injections it came through the tyvek and transferred from the tyvek?

At this point I think agar must be the best way to get a clean start... but I dont know the difference between pasty plates and petri dishes?  Also how do I know how many different times I will have to transfer from agar to another petri dish before I can start innoc?  From the RR videos ive watched he said he did it like 5 times. I dont know why you cant just use the dish from the first agar plate assuming theres nothing but white?

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26170453 -

you can use a plate as soon as it's clean. This could be the first transfer or could take however many. You just have to learn what to look for.

Pasty plates are when you make up agar, put a little in as many glad mini rounds as you want and PC them.

Petris come sterile and you PC the agar and then pour it into the petris. I greatly prefer petri dishes


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26179465 -

verum subsequentis said:
you can use a plate as soon as it's clean. This could be the first transfer or could take however many. You just have to learn what to look for.

Pasty plates are when you make up agar, put a little in as many glad mini rounds as you want and PC them.

Petris come sterile and you PC the agar and then pour it into the petris. I greatly prefer petri dishes


Ok cool thank you. Is there an agar tek that you prefer that possibly has video to explain the process? Sorry just dont want to fuck anything up lol.

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26179495 -

There are a few good agar teks. I think bodhi has one with video but i don't remember. I'm actually about to go pour some plates right now. I don't feel comfortable uploading videos through unsecure sites but I'll film It and make a couple gifs. I'll make a thread about it later and link it here.


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26179556 -

mushman1017 said:
Is there an agar tek that you prefer that possibly has video to explain the process? Sorry just dont want to fuck anything up lol.


https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22721954/vc/1#22721954

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: badsponge]
    #26183694 -

ok cool gonna read up on those and try to get some agar plates done...

So out of all my jars only one of them turned out to be good... mixed 1 quart (which weighed out to about a lb of spawn) with 3 lbs of coco verm coffee (used one brick, or 650 grams of coco, 1 quart of verm and 1 cup of spent coffee grounds that had been baked at 400 F for 10 minutes to kill any sitting mold or contam) so I have about a 1 to 3 ratio of spawn to substrate. Mixed it all up and put it in the tub I got ready which consists of blacking out the bottom 4.5 inches all around with tape, and then drilling holes every 2 inches around the tub and lid (along with a drain hole thats taped up in the bottom corner of the tub).

So after all the material was put in the tub with the lid on, I put it in a room yesterday morning with a trash bag around it with the end twisted to only allow minute amounts of air to get in. I was told to do this to encourage GE, and every other day open the bag up to let the tub remove whatever co2 gets built up for like a minute or less then put it back in the bag and repeat this process every other day? Does that sound right?  Temps in the house are around 80-82 degrees...

What am I looking for? Should I actually take the lid off the tub as well or just inspect it through the sides/lid?  Wasnt really able to find an instructional on after you birth it what to do. Not sure when to add lighting? Not sure if I need to mist with h202 with water, and how much of each I use? Would I used wax paper on top of the casing and mist the wax paper to keep humidity in it?  Sorry for all the questions, its the only tub  I have out of 20 quarts of failed spawn that seemed to be ok so its kind of a hail mary situation lol. I can take pics of the setup if needed.

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017] * 1
    #26183740 -

DUDE! Find whomever told you to do these things, hug them warmly, back up and slap them as hard as you can. Be sure to only use your fingers in the slapping. NO PALM. That's just too much.

Sounds like you hopped in a time machine and went back to 1997 to get growing advice. You can do it this way but you're making things way way harder than they need be.

To be clear though, you drilled a hole every two inches in every direction on every surface of the tub? What size hole? Your shiz will be getting way way too much fae if so and you'll have to mist like a mofo to keep up.

Also, coffee increases your contam possibilities and I usually advice newer growers against adding it.

I'm down to help as we proceed but am not going to try and answer all those questions at once. In a nutshell, as things stand, If i'm understanding correctly, I'd advise leaving the trash bag as sealed as is possible for the next 7-10 days and then taking it out and uploading a pic


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Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26183952 -

:whathesaid:

Yeah, where the hell did you get all these bad ideas?

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26185037 -

verum subsequentis said:
DUDE! Find whomever told you to do these things, hug them warmly, back up and slap them as hard as you can. Be sure to only use your fingers in the slapping. NO PALM. That's just too much.

Sounds like you hopped in a time machine and went back to 1997 to get growing advice. You can do it this way but you're making things way way harder than they need be.

To be clear though, you drilled a hole every two inches in every direction on every surface of the tub? What size hole? Your shiz will be getting way way too much fae if so and you'll have to mist like a mofo to keep up.

Also, coffee increases your contam possibilities and I usually advice newer growers against adding it.

I'm down to help as we proceed but am not going to try and answer all those questions at once. In a nutshell, as things stand, If i'm understanding correctly, I'd advise leaving the trash bag as sealed as is possible for the next 7-10 days and then taking it out and uploading a pic


Ya, no need to answer everything, just want to make sure I dont fuck anythng up from here. lol. 

And yes, they are 1/4 inch holes, ill add some pics tomrrow prob. Hopefully they stay hydrated in the bag with it fully enclosed.

ill plan to take some pics around the 20th-22nd and see whats up. hopefully no trich. Thank you for helping me, so much information and hard to organize the process chronologically.

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26185802 -

Yeah, i know the feeling. After a couple grows it all gets easier but at first it can be a little overwhelming.

So now you have a couple of options. You can take some tape and tape up almost all the holes or you can treat it like an open air grow and just mist it every couple hours throughout the entirety of it's life. Shot gun fruiting chambers aren't for bulk substrates. T

Bagging the tub is old outdated info. Folks used to believe a lot of bullshit. But we have smartphones now so...... the world isn't flat, Light isn't bad for colonizing tubs, and high C02 levels aren't.... as important as once thought.

In your particular case though, the bag may prove helpful as your tub needs to remain in a very humid environment or it'll dry out.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26187978 -

Ok so here is what the tub looks like... this is obviously an empty one but the one that is waiting for colonization is about halfway full up the blacked out part due to me not having enough spawn to make the right batch.



Is it going to be ok sitting in the garbage bag tied up to retain all the moisture needed? or do you think I will need to go in, open the garbage bag, open the lid to the container and start misting?  How often will I need to do this? Should I just leave everything closed till the 10th day or so then open? gonna be going out of town for about 4 or 5 days next week so not sure what I should do to make sure they are on the right path.

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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26191341 -

Ok so just took a picture of what the tub looks like with the moisture building up once ive opened the bag... and then I took a pic of the growth on the inside. So far I think it looks good? Going out of town tomorrow night and wont be back till saturday night so I think it should be good to stay on its own right?

Once colonization looks like its full and everything looks white... what is the next step? Do I start using lights? Do I have to initiate pinset somehow, or do the lights do that for me? At any point will I need to pull the lid off or is that only to fan and let out some of the humidity?




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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26191347 -

With the tub set up like that you'll only have to take the lid off to mist and keep it from drying out. Letting humidity out is the least of your concerns. Light is good and can be added at any stage. My grows get light.... always. the agar, grain jars, grain bags, freshly spawned tubs, fruiting tubs..... everything is in the light always.

The myc will initiate pinning when it is fully colonized or runs into a contam that puts it into survival mode.

You need to do some reading (or just grow and grow and grow) to come to a better understanding of how much fresh air a monotub can handle without drying out. For frame of reference though, I present you THIS THREAD BY PASTY. Pasty is a very excellent cultivator and knows what's up for sure. Around here we call it "dialing in" your tub. That write up calls for a total of 16 quarter inch holes to allow for the appropriate balance of fresh air and moisture retention. This method was developed by a guy who knows his shit and has been tested by many who definitely know how to do things.

Bottom line, like i said earlier, is this; Your sub will dry out like a mofo up in there unless you
A: tape up most of the holes
B: keep a close eye on it and mist when needed (this will be very often)


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: First time grow... confused about some of the stages... [Re: mushman1017]
    #26191353 -

12/12 light cycle should be used at all stages of growth. Mist as needed if it looks dry. Don't overmist. They'll pin when they pin. You probably don't need to pull off the lid. I had a tub start to get fuzzy feet, so I left a fan on in the room, problem solved.

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