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Aloha's John Q&A * 2
    #25885137 -

Hi all,

I've been communicating with John who used to work at Aloha and is an experienced mycologist, whatever you want to call him really. He wants to give back to the community but is very busy and not familiar with the site, so has 10 minutes every day to answer questions. So far he has been sharing great things about Cordyceps.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24668833/fpart/11#24668833

So I propose to act as a moderator of questions you may have for him (I guess I can look around Advanced Mycology in general but am still figuring out John's most specific fields of expertise at least to focus on now) and save as much time as possible and make disseminating his knowledge as efficient as possible. And to pick seemingly the best questions if there are too many (10 minutes is not that much).

I suggested getting into the topic of medicinal Ganoderma and to hopefully help clarify but if you have great questions on Cordyceps or other matters let's hear them! Please let's make the matter about questions that remain unanswered and plague the myco world and don't get tooo specific so that the most people can benefit.


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    • Edited by Solipsis (03/20/19 12:50 PM)

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Solipsis]
        #25885698 -

    From what I understand, he is not considered an expert mycologist by those in the field. See here, here or here.

    That doesn't mean that he couldn't have some insights -- but some caution is advised.

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Pinback]
        #25885713 -

    That's cool.. so far he does seem to be helpful answering important questions the Gourmet forum seemed to be struggling with and we can consider Advanced Mycology to give us some peer review and if some claims are considered false, a reply on that with a nice case as for why.

    Seems like there are also plenty of people fine taking a sh*t on Stamets or RR, never heard it about Alan though. Perhaps having been in the field for a long time has something to do with it or how defiant some claims are, but I for one am willing to take try and take advantage of the opportunity and not be too dismissive out of the blocks.
    I didn't mean to say we should take his word as truth just like that, just that he is experienced and knowledgeable.

    That i said expert mycologist and offer Q&A here is not meant to be patronizing with his help or that he is above the other people here, not at all. Just to point out to a general audience that there are reasons to be interested in what he could tell us.
    I was kind of hoping though that we would avoid the obsession with reputation.

    So warning appreciated. I will ask though that we criticize in a civil fashion and like scientists. I'm not sacrificing my time to get rude attitudes and ad hominems (not you).
    At the very least stimulating discussions can come of this.

    Any questions so far?


    --------------------
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  • Plants
  • Other items - Supplies etc.


    • Edited by Solipsis (03/20/19 12:54 PM)

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Solipsis]
        #25885935 -

    No idea who this person is or what questions might be appropriate.

    SO on the chance I look like an idiot or my question isn't relevant, I'll throw one out there (that way the next person looks super smart and we can get on with it lol)

    I'm still struggling with whether additives like cottonseed meal and kelp actually help mushrooms grow or not. So I guess, GENERALLY speaking, what has his experience been with additives vs straight grows for mushroom production.

    I don't know cordyceps from biceps.

    Cheers!


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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: vertygo]
        #25886257 -

    I suggest people do background on the people they idolize. Especially people that want to be called doctor with honorary degrees from questionable institutions.

    Quote:
    “I might add, he is not a mycologist. His doctorate is from some unnamed Chinese university. Normally if you get a honorary doctorate you actually mention where it’s from. Honorary doctorates are only valid on the university grounds where you got them. It doesn’t make you a Ph.D. in something. It’s a token.” --Debbie Viess


    Id sooner be trying to have a QA session with drake. Not to say john doesn't know what he's talking about but i take a step back when people self report they're world class scientists and doctors but really aint


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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: bodhisatta]
        #25886728 -

    :jolly:


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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
        #25888453 -

    Debbie hates everyone that is cool and actually doing anything, so the fact that Debbie doesn't like him makes me respect him more.

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
        #25889545 -

    It's a shame people are so hung up on reputations. Idolize? Who cares man. I'm just saying we ought to just see what he can tell from experience at Aloha. Putting him on a pedestal that might seem implied but as far as I'm concerned, it isn't. Am merely appreciating that he has experience with medicinal mushrooms and am interested to hear his info and theories which are quite interesting so far.

    It would still be everyone's responsibility to check it and not just swallow it up but I think it's definitely helpful when most people in e.g. that Cordyceps thread are playing guessing games about topics from lack of that kind of experience and Cordyceps being a bit of a complex topic.
    I'm glad for example that he points out how growing your own Cordyceps might be dangerous if you don't get it analyzed.

    OK so he might have fucked up with the Hawaiian orgasmic mushrooms. He might not have certain degrees but it seems he has done pretty good things with Aloha before he left. And aside from an introductory post in that Cordyceps thread he doesn't care about advertising himself or Aloha (which he left), that's all me. And the only reason I'm trying to do this as a Q&A is cause he is busy and putting very little time in the forum because of that.
    I didn't "try" to have a Q&A session. I just offered to help and he wants to give back to the community because when he was inexperienced he felt a lot of secrecy about sharing helpful information which I guess is common in science, R&D and more areas.

    Are we really gonna play games about status? What a waste of time. This is not meant to be some kind of VIP treatment. I also don't care what he calls himself, just how good his scientific method is and if his claims are worth listening to and not 50% psychedelic theories that are really out there.

    It should take quite a bit to really discredit a person with experience and not be interested to put that experience to use. We would all learn a lot more listening to the guy and evaluating claims etc scientifically, not taking it personally. I think that would be interesting even if some of his theories get debunked.

    Otherwise: medicinal mushrooms I guess would be the general topic


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    • Edited by Solipsis (03/22/19 06:17 AM)

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Solipsis]
        #25890081 -

    Quote:
    "Insects do not become infected, ALL insects of a species will contain cordy as the cordy is in the form of single celled yest-like symbionts which act as the blood cells of the insect. Once again, it is a required symbiont, not a parasite so the term Infected does not apply. Case in point: Ophiocordyceps sinensis: Every single Thitarodes genus moth, whether it be caterpillar or adult, healthy or dead, you can isolate the fungus from the insect. Simple: Stick a needle in the moth, draw back the plunger, suck up the hemolymph and apply to a petri dish with media. In every case you will get Ophiocordyceps sinensis!"

    This is puzzling. Does the presence of "single celled yest-like symbionts which act as the blood cells" apply for all species of Cordyceps? Is it another form of sporangium like in Zygomycota? Is it propagated in the next generation of Thiratodes with oviposition?

    A non filamentous form (or anamorph?, sporangia?) of a higher fungus being the blood cells of a Lepidopteran? How is it explained evolution wise? What about the rest of the Lepidoptera, can we isolate something similar from their hemolymph? Once again, this shakes my universe...

    I don;t know where to start with all the questions generated... And if it is practical asking so many. If anybody could clarify some things for me, please do...

    So, if a stimulus triggers the fruitbody production from the dead larvae (or kills the larvae, whatever...), we could farm the insects and provide with the stimulus so that we can get the exact same product sold in Asia endangering the natural population? (If the population is really endangered)

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: ScotTony] * 2
        #25890437 -

    Alternative explanation: That quote is horseshit.

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: teladi]
        #25891534 -

    I agree that requires a reference, so let's hope he can provide anything to support the bold claims, like Monday.

    (I think it's good to try and keep a neutral position on the guy until we see some more falsification or vindification of his claims but from the responses so far it doesn't bode well for his credibility. Pretty confusing as to why he would say something like that about finding Ophiocordyceps in those bugs' systems - but maybe he happened to investigate an infected population?)


    --------------------
    My trade lists:
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  • Plants
  • Other items - Supplies etc.


    • Edited by Solipsis (03/23/19 09:39 AM)

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Solipsis]
        #25908210 -

    is this the same guy that did lime or ash pasteurizations in Africa or something like that?

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: SpikeSpiegel]
        #25908914 -

    SpikeSpiegel said:
    is this the same guy that did lime or ash pasteurizations in Africa or something like that?


    I think yes. I would be interested in details of the lime/ash pasteurization of straw with a pump and a sprinkler over the straw. I would want to try that method in the future with my modified IBC tote.

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Inocybe]
        #25908923 -

    what is that method?


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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: rams] * 1
        #25909021 -

    It consists basically on wetting the straw with lime/ash water via overhead sprinklers or perforated pipes. The water drips to the false bottom and goes back to the lime water reservoir where it gets pumped again to the sprinklers/ pipes until all the straw gets right water content and also gets pasteurized. You may calculate the amount of water needed to get the straw to a desired water content and then add an extra amount to be sure that all the straw gets properly hydrated and pasteurized. The good thing about this method is that you don't end with high volume of lime water that would give you a problematic disposal. It would be nice to know direct experiences of someone who has tried this method. Pros, cons, and things to consider to make it a successful method.

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Inocybe]
        #25909139 -

    I'm not sure why so many people highlight the problematic disposal of the lime water (if using a water bath soak)...

    1, after the straw has been soaking, the PH drops from 13ish down to around 7-8.

    2, it can be used again and again.

    3, it's easily neutralised if you did want to dispose of it.

    I use a near identical system weekly for my straw logs, but don't pre-measure an amount of water, simply put dry straw into a big wheelie bin, weigh it down, add water, then continuously pump water from a tap in the bottom to a top sprinkler system.

    Works very well.

    I wash my straw first with soapy water. Then lime pasteurise after.

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: MrRabbit-HMR]
        #25910047 -

    Thank you for your input!

    I have read that lime water reacts with the atmospheric CO2 to form CaCO3 that as is insoluble on water it collects in the bottom. But it may be a slow reaction to take place, i don't know.

    If you keep lime water for long.. Could it breed tolerant bacteria that could cause problems next time?

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
        #25913663 -

    Alan Rockefeller said:
    Debbie hates everyone that is cool and actually doing anything, so the fact that Debbie doesn't like him makes me respect him more.


    What is it this "new" trend here to "ridicule" all of these older "gurus". Paul Stamets, Roger Rabbit
    and now John. Some say these bad things about them quite frequently. I really don't understand.

    John did DNA job for us when I was still playing with these Cordyceps spp. All mine (at that time)
    including that a bit moldy (lol) Mushroompeople strain you Alan sent me were CM as expected.
    One that wbastz got from a Korean dried sample turned out to be a bad pathogen.
    So there is change to some risks here, if having some bad luck...

    All of these guys have given us lots of mushroom info for us to enjoy... if something isn't perfect
    in their texts, then wouldn't it be better to talk more about that particular subject than the person.
    (Have to admit that I haven't been that active here, but I have seen these kind of posts time to time.)





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    blog

    Edited by Speeker (04/03/19 03:36 PM)

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Speeker] * 1
        #25914005 -

    Speeker said:
    What is it this "new" trend here to "ridicule" all of these older "gurus". Paul Stamets, Roger Rabbit
    and now John. Some say these bad things about them quite frequently. I really don't understand.




    Some people like to build themselves up by knocking each other down.  In my experience it's not a particularly effective strategy.  It is popular, but not among the top tier people, it's more of an ankle biter thing.

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    Re: Aloha's John Q&A [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
        #25914042 -

    There were people out there who watched the anti vaxx scene rise. and watched people like Andrew Wakefield become popular and praised. Wondering what the fuck is going on. It's usually self proclaimed experts or people who have these incredible claims that gain a zombie like following and lead to conspiracy theories. meanwhile scientifically minded people sit back and wonder why some dr phil gets attention and someone doing real research is hardly noticed. Sometimes the famous person isn't a charlatan for instance Stephen Hawking wasn't the head of his field but most people know his name. But most of the time someone wants to be in the spotlight they try selling things like button mushroom mafias or claiming every Thitarodes moth is symbiotic with Cordy. People jump at that and suddenly lose their critical thinking and believe things without sources. I even tell people I'm just some guy who's grown a few mushrooms plenty of people outgrow me any day so please don't consider me a guru or expert. Now maybe I'm some ankle biter, but I like to think I'm getting people to really think about what they go on to repeat as gospel and believe as scripture.


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