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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: koods]
    #25879795 -

If I misunderstood shiva's position, then he should clarify it now.

If the green new deal is about climate change, the deal is still a scam seeing that every state must comply, but the rest of the world will not (does not) comply. If only the U.S. complied, we would all live like slaves to the government while we watched the world burn down from the pollution of other countries.

Again, this is a grab for power.


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/17/19 10:51 AM)

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 2
    #25879805 -

XUL said:
So the green new deal is about climate change?

Because Shiva says otherwise.


Did I?

You state the new green deal is supposed to save the world. I disagree; the global issue of human driven climate change will not be solved by any single directive. That doesn't mean that the new green deal won't have a net benefit to the population of the USA; nor does it mean that the cumulative effect of similar policy changes couldn't significantly effect global climate change.




XUL said:
There is definitely no causal evidence that general air pollution kills anyone.

Prove causation.




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Edited by shivas.wisdom (03/17/19 10:58 AM)

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25879806 -

you know, there are international treaties regarding climate change...of which our glorious orange leader has declared his intention to disregard our obligation.

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25879826 -

None of those links are causal. Further, air pollution in one country can travel to another country.

Quote:
the global issue of human driven climate change will not be solved by any single directive. That doesn't mean that the new green deal won't have a net benefit to the population of the USA; nor does it mean that the cumulative effect of similar policy changes couldn't significantly effect global climate change.


The states can do this too.

Thus, the government is not needed.

Hand it to the states.


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/17/19 11:09 AM)

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25879856 -

XUL said:
The green new deal is supposed to save the world from destruction. The hypocrisy is that all states must be included, but not all countries.



Only in America...

Is your argument really that a US law is hypocritical because it doesn't apply to all the other countries on earth?

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: Guy1980]
    #25879884 -

I'm saying that the green new deal is futile unless all other countries are involved.

I'm saying that the democrats want to use the green new deal for a grab on government power.

Is that so hard to understand?


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25879887 -

XUL said:
None of those links are causal.


Can you expand on what you mean by "causal link"? The studies I linked to demonstrate a direct relationship between air pollution and human mortality; that's always been how I've defined a causal link.



XUL said:
Further, air pollution in one country can travel to another country.


True, but this doesn't mean that domestic policies won't still have a net benefit on local climate. For example, protections to air quality have already had a measurable effect in reducing air pollution related deaths in the USA; https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-10/uonc-uap101918.php



XUL said:
The states can do this too.

Thus, the government is not needed.

Hand it to the states.


Seeing as how I have provided reliable evidence in support of my claim that air pollution kills significantly more Americans than illegal immigrants, I think you still need to explain the ideological contradiction revealed by supporting state rights for environmental protection policies, but supporting unilateral federal government for immigration control policies.


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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25879910 -

XUL said:
I'm saying that the green new deal is futile unless all other countries are involved.

I'm saying that the democrats want to use the green new deal for a grab on government power.

Is that so hard to understand?


But you're happy for it to be done at state level?  Which will be equally as "futile" as it won't involve the rest of the world?

If the worlds biggest producer of CO2 per capita plans to reduce it's CO2 output, thus reducing worlds CO2 output, how is that futile?

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25879911 -

XUL said:
I'm saying that the green new deal is futile unless all other countries are involved.



As has already explained to you, this is why we also have international agreements setting unified goals for all nations to achieve; and why the populations of other sovereign nations are pushing for similar policy from their own governments.


XUL said:
I'm saying that the democrats want to use the green new deal for a grab on government power.


And until you can explain why the republicans currently using illegal immigration for a grab on government power is different, this hypocritical argument won't hold any water.


XUL said:
Is that so hard to understand?


I really want to ask you the same thing.


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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: Guy1980]
    #25879931 -

Guy1980 said:
XUL said:
I'm saying that the green new deal is futile unless all other countries are involved.

I'm saying that the democrats want to use the green new deal for a grab on government power.

Is that so hard to understand?


But you're happy for it to be done at state level?  Which will be equally as "futile" as it won't involve the rest of the world?

If the worlds biggest producer of CO2 per capita plans to reduce it's CO2 output, thus reducing worlds CO2 output, how is that futile?


I am happy at avoiding the green new deal and encouraging states to go green if they so choose.

I dont think we should go green at all, but prepare for the inevitable climate change.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25879936 -

Perhaps Trump should back off. But I am still on the fence. No pun intended.

You make a fair point.

Your response?


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25879937 -

XUL said:
I dont think we should go green at all, but prepare for the inevitable climate change.


Do you check the road for traffic before you cross, or have you just installed a wheelchair ramp at home for the inevitable crippling injury?

Seems to me it's better to avoid a clusterfuck if at all possible, than accept it and prepare for the aftermath.

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: Guy1980]
    #25879948 -

Your analogy takes a global matter and turns it into a situation involving one person.

I don't get it.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL] * 3
    #25879952 -

XUL said:
I don't get it.


This much is obvious.

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL]
    #25879966 -

Why would you take a global matter and use an analogy involving one person?


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL]
    #25879990 -

XUL said:
Perhaps Trump should back off. But I am still on the fence. No pun intended.

You make a fair point.

Your response?


If there was consistency in republican support for state rights and small government, I would be more willing to hear them out on the idea. As it stands, these principles are all too often evoked when federal power would limit republican desires, and then quickly forgotten once that same federal power can now be used to achieve the same things.

Personally, I take it one step further and believe that locally is where we have to start - states are basically countries in for own rights and the distinction you appear to hold between "states" and "government" seems arbitrary to me.


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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25880220 -

I like local.

I like it a lot.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: XUL]
    #25880886 -

XUL said:
And whenever someone mentions solving climate issues through the 50 states, the response is that, if non-compliant states don't take part in the green new deal and hand over power to the government, then there won't be any hope.


Good point.  The Federal Government therefore shouldn't hand the power over to the states.

XUL said:
Conversely, when the issue of non-compliant countries are brought up, leftists don't have a problem leaving non-compliant countries untouched. Why? Because it's not about "saving the world," but rather controlling America through government power.

And you take it hook, line, and sinker.


This was already explained to you.  The US and the Canada are the world's worst offenders, and the US is the only country not willing to comply.

So what do we do about the US?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25885492 -

https://wgntv.com/2019/03/19/chicago-police-union-wants-federal-investigation-into-kim-foxxs-handling-of-jussie-smollett-case/

It appears Jussie isn't the only POS in hot water.

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Re: Jussie Smollett speaks out for the first time since racist and homophobic "attack" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25885519 -

Learn how to survive during the inevitable climate change instead of wasting time on saving a world that will inevitably change.

Why would we bankrupt ourselves to fight a climate that won't stop changing?

How about learning to deal with the inevitable change?

I don't want to be dead because Dems wanted to spend time being green instead of learning how to live with climate change.

The green new deal is idiocy.


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/20/19 10:56 AM)

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