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Should spiritual teachings be free? * 1
    #25832672 -

This issue has come up more than once for me over the past few weeks and I thought it might be good to discuss it. I just ask that you read this post in full before commenting. So, should spiritual teachings be free?

First, let me explain exactly what I mean by ‘spiritual teaching’ for the purpose of this thread in particular. By ‘spiritual teaching’ I mean an interactive process whereby a teacher(s) is guiding a student through a process. I am not referring to reading something from a webpage, or watching a video on YouTube, because there is no dialogue there. The creator of such teachings creates a meditation video, or a webpage, and their responsibility for the people engaging with that content pretty much ends there. I am instead speaking about a personalised learning process whereby the student receives ongoing guidance, support, practices, and resources.  I am also only speaking about situations where the student has the financial ability to pay, as I don’t believe that money should ever be a barrier to someone accessing teachings if they genuinely cannot afford it.

I should also preface this by saying that I belong to a school which asks for a nominal monthly contribution ($25 for beginners) which is completely flexible and adjustable with regard to personal financial circumstances, and fully sponsored memberships are available for anyone who cannot afford to contribute.  So, with that in mind, it’s probably obvious that I think it’s necessary for those offering spiritual teachings to ask for a contribution. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Firstly, for anyone offering spiritual teachings, there is the time factor. They have to give up their time to do this. Should they give that time for free? Many people volunteer to help in schools such as ours, but for some people, it’s a full-time job. They have to eat. They have to pay bills. They have to support their family, just as any normal person does. Especially here in the West, I just don’t see a way this can be done for free. Are they supposed to teach on the streets with their begging bowl? Then there are other costs that might be involved (depending on the situation), such as website hosting and maintenance, staffing, equipment, outsourcing, paying for venues in which to hold teaching sessions.

Secondly, there is the issue of commitment. If someone joins a school, demands resources and time from the teachers, by paying a nominal fee, they are committing to the process, which they might otherwise just abandon. They might not turn up to the course they’ve booked onto. They might create an online account and then never used it, or waste valuable time and resources which could be spent on a more committed student.  It's sad, but money is energy, and if people are paying for something, they are more likely to be committed. It's like a gym membership. Also, if you are receiving something which is valuable to you, should you not try to reciprocate this receiving by giving something back to the people who are giving to you? If you believe in karma, there are huge karmic implications here of taking from the teacher and not giving back. If you leave it open to completely voluntary donations, some people will just never donate, leaving themselves open to the type of karmic debt which can actually prevent progress on the spiritual path (if you believe in karma)

In the past, there used to be a thing called ‘tithing’ where students would be expected to donate 10% or even 20% of their income to their teacher or school. Even Isha Yoga (Sadhguru’s organisation) used to ask for 20% of income for access to the teachings, after seeing that offering it free just didn’t work.

I remember years ago attending some Buddhist meditation classes run by the local Buddhist organisation. I paid (the equivalent of) $15 per class and had absolutely no problem with it, as they were teaching me something and I knew they had costs to cover. There’s actually a whole load of other things I could say here, but I will leave it for now because I don’t want this to be a wall of text.

Just to add that in an ideal world, everything would be free right? We wouldn't be bound by money. We wouldn't need money to survive and do pretty much everything. But, that is not the world we live in unfortunately. Money is a necessity in our current society and there is no way around that. So, in all honestly, I am confused about this whole idea that spiritual teaching should be free, because it doesn’t make sense to me in this current world we live in. I'm interested to hear some other perspectives.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: PocketLady]
    #25832681 -

Christ said, "do not take money."

what do you think?

when you start running religion like a business, it always goes bad.

Did Christ ever say to build churches?


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I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832687 -

Christ's teachings don't make sense ot a lot of people. But if you follow them, they work.  Don't take money -- Love God with all your heart; etc.


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I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good] * 3
    #25832701 -

What we invest in in the world will grow. That can include investing in terms of money, or time, or energy, or focus. If we want spiritual teachings to thrive in the world, providing support for them is essential. For authors to write books full-time, they need to be supported typically by those who purchase the books, allowing them the time to focus on writing and not holding another job. That is why I always buy books and never download them (steal them) as that is like saying "I like the themes of the books but I don't want the author to be supported and therefore don't want more of this material more readily available in the world."

It is the same with spiritual teaching in the form of personal guidance and support - what we water will grow. For some that is through giving money - but if that isn't possible then it's also great to support the teachings through volunteering your time. Many Dharma centers have volunteer programs where people can attend events or teachings for free by volunteering there. Like you say, there are many costs to presenting spiritual teachings and spiritual training environments, and these have to be paid somehow.

In Dharmic countries where the practice of generosity is well established, people would willingly donate for events and teachers without needing to be asked, which would then allow the teachings to be free and open to others. In the West, people usually aren't so generous when it isn't necessary, so many Dharma centers or other groups cannot use this approach. Personally, I am happy to pay and invest in what I find valuable - most certainly spirituality :sun:


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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25832710 -

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things." Matthew 23:23

Here he actually states that tithing is okay.

"41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. 43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.” Mark 12

I know there are other passages where he takes a different stance on money, but, the Bible contradicts itself in many places, depending on the situation. The Bible also says that a man should not have sex with another man, but I don't think that means that Christianity is against gay people. It is open to interpretation (e.g should we apply a literal interpretation here, or is it pointing to something else?) and also modern day context has to be applied.

If you have an idea about how teachings and all costs can be covered without asking for a contribution, I would love to hear it.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (02/23/19 04:08 PM)

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: deff]
    #25832715 -

Why do yo uthink books should be written, deff?

Half of the earth's forest have been cut down.

Continuing growth does not require new books.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25832724 -

we are using computers which are far more destructive to the environment than books, so I don't understand. I am very much for environmental and ecological concerns, but I don't see books as being anywhere near the top of the list there. If you want a digital copy of a book, you can buy the e-book rather than download it (using a computer to read the e-book). So there is no argument for illegally downloading books in my opinion. The reason for books is the transfer of knowledge, which I feel has much value :smile:


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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: deff]
    #25832727 -

Are you crazy?  Chopping down trees is THE most destruction thing you could possibly do.

And I am not on a computer; the device I use has a battery that lasts for 12 hours, and charges up in 1 hour.

Not that it's here or there, just a fact.


If you want to go to that place -- Cars, Eating meat, Drinking alcohol --

There are countless things which I Never do, because of well lots of reasons. but yeah.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25832735 -

No I meant the production of the device you are using involves a lot of mining and toxic by-products, which are very damaging. I am not talking about the use of power to run it, but rather the production of the device itself.

Books have been a part of human culture for many generations. What we are seeing now in terms of deforestation is not the result solely of making books - but much more so the result of increasing population, urban development, clearing trees for farmland, etc. Also, there are alternative paper sources like hemp which is better and can be grown anew each year, so that is a positive direction to head in.


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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: deff]
    #25832742 -

Computers and similar devices -- and they are becoming more environmentally friendly as time goes on -- are Infinitely more environmentally friendly than books.  Argument doesn't change that.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good] * 1
    #25832750 -

Haha, love how this conversation has now been completely derailed. The point is (as beautifully stated by deff :heart:) that if we want people to perform services which benefit the world (whatever they are) we need to give them the resources they need in order to do that.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: PocketLady]
    #25832759 -

Selling our sevles, mind and bodies for money is the definition of slavery.

We live in a world where doctors make milliions, yet cause the spread of disease.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832766 -

Do not think that something which is "beautiful" is therefore true.

And, no, that is anything other than beautiful.

Trees are our life. They are. literally. our life.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832771 -

To you it's abstract -- meaningless -- nothingness. To those who have a deeper understanding, it's very real.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832786 -

So, should we just not pay our doctors anything? Should they instead survive on air? (I actually think the pharmaceutical industry is very corrupt and has corrupted the medical profession, but if I ever get in an accident and need surgery, I'm pretty sure I'll be grateful there is a surgeon around who can help me.)

They provide a service that benefits humanity. So do the nurses who look after you when you are sick. And it is our responsibility as a society to ensure they have what they need to do that.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832815 -

I am asking you how, in this society that we currently live in, we can support people who provided services which the people need. The firemen, the paramedics, the teachers. Whether society is corrupt or not, whether the Queen has a gold piano or not (not a Royal support here at all btw), the people still need these services.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: PocketLady]
    #25832817 -

it isn't that hard.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832824 -

Thus we come to the crux of it.

How can it be possible to do things differently.

Instead of asking with the tonal import that - it can't be done differently, learn how to understand that it must be done differently, and we can change the tide.

Same as it's ever been.




or not. keep asking people to pay money join your family.


but understand you are doing a great (emphasis) harm to the world, not a service.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832835 -

You say its possible, but how? How can we give people who are providing services the resources they need, if its not through contributions/taxes/insurance?

We live in society, and if things like spiritual teachings are going to survive, they have to play the game, otherwise it's game over for them and we lose them. They are too important to lose.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Should spiritual teachings be free? [Re: life is good]
    #25832843 -

life is good said:
or not. keep asking people to pay money join your family.


but understand you are doing a great (emphasis) harm to the world, not a service.


Please explain why this is true?


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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