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Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice)
    #25733199 -

Hi All,

I have a bag of reishi (saw dust) and a bag of lion's mane (grain - planned to transfer to sawdust).

They seem to show unhealthy growth:

- Reishi: It appears there is a perimeter around the healthy mycelium which I suspect shows contam. Any thoughts?

- Lion's Mane: The grain has started to fruit. Is this because of shock from contamination? It looks like there is wet spot.

Contam is likely from my transfer methods - not being sterile enough. Will be building a flow hood soon.

Should both of these bags get tossed?

I've also got a large bag of enoki - the bag a small tear in it which was not noticed. It's definitely contaminated. Is it worth leaving outside somewhere (winter temperature at the mo 40 - 50 Fahrenheit).

Any advice welcome. Thanks in advance.


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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #25735001 -

I can't give advice on the reishi as I've never grown them. But lions mane has the tendency to fruit in vitro and it is pretty common. The wet spot in the  bags look to me like it's just condensation on the grains and they've pushed up against the bag. Bacteria sometimes will look slimy or cloudy. Do you notice any foul smell coming from the filter patch?

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25735605 -

The enoki had a foul smell at air patch so ditched that.

The lion's mane and reishi don't seem to have a smell, I'll keep an eye on both for now and see what happens.

Many thanks DigitalRhizae

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #25736061 -

I've grown reishi several times. The yellow/brown is normal. Your pics look good except maybe the side/profile picture which seems to have a green/dark spot.

I also can't stop my lion's manes from fruiting. They'll even do it on agar. They can't help themselves. I think this is normal but I would love to know if anyone has ideas on how to stop it.


--------------------
Oat Prep

WBS Preperation without waste

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: edibleeddie]
    #25738971 -

Limiting air inside the media container. In my experience they will pin where there is air. Having grown them in jars where their is virtually no air space, they don't fruit inside the jar for the 30 or say days they take to colonize the jars, except where the gas exchange holes are in the lids. They will routinely pin at the GE holes.

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25741923 -

The reishi is contaminated. Leave it alone a d it may start pinning in the bag. If it does, and produces a distinguishable nub, expose that nub only to fruiting conditions and it should conk out.

The lions mane grain could be a little bacterial or just condensation. Hard to tell.

It's always worth trying to get some fruits outside. It sounfs like you have ideal enoki westher, go for it!

Get that hood or SAB going.


--------------------
How to Adjust the 75X's Thermostat

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: MorePies]
    #25744424 -

Is that reishi really 8 months old? Seems suspect. Which variety? In the bottom right side of the bag in the third pic, is that uncolonized sawdust? Reishi should tear through any media you put it on ime so if that's the case then I'd suggest starting over. Seems like something else besides reishi got in

G resinaceum from Feb

Same block only 3 months later. The block was definitely looking gnarly at this point


--------------------

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: Steevo] * 1
    #25792380 -

Hi All,

Apologies for my delayed response, and many thanks for your replies to what is essentially just noob manoeuvres on my behalf.

If anyone has a good source of info on growing lions mane please let me know. This forum is great in the sense that there are many knowledgeable people here, but I really struggle to access the info contained here due to the forum format / conflicting and dated advice. Likely my poor search abilities - will try harder.

Steevo, that date should read 12/05/18 for your American eyes :P

I tossed the Enoki, Reishi, and Lions Mane. I don't want any contam in my room! It's annoying, but I've slowly been getting better with each batch I fuck up.

I took one of my lion's mane bags (an uncontaminated one - not mentioned in original post) and G2G transferred it into 8 Quart jars. They colonised well and again have fruited in the jars.

My temps have been fluctuating which is prob partly to blame. But also, to confirm what DigitalRhizae said, depriving gas exchange does allow for colonisation without fruiting with LM. One of my jars was sealed with tape not polyfil and it didn't fruit in jar. See pics.

I was planning on transferring those 8 grain jars into sterilised sawdust bags, but unfortunately, my oven/stove has broken and so cannot prepare the bags. My question is, can I fruit these 8 jars with success. By that, I mean actually get a reasonable amount of fruit not just some small fruit that stalls etc.

I've been setting up a greenhouse, but my ultrasonic humidifier broke today. So... considering trying to fruit from the jars in a monotoub.

TLDR:

Will lions mane grown on grain in a jar produce fruits that are worth the effort if fruited in a monotub?

If anyone is knowledgeable about lions mane, and feels like doing a small amount of mentoring, I'd be really grateful! I have questions pop up from time to time and direct messaging someone in the know would be really helpful.

Anyway, thanks for reading and the advice All!



All the best,

LMN

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #25796329 -

I should clarify that when I mentioned limiting air, I didn't mean to completely block off GE. This shouldn't really be done, as the mycelium needs to respire and stopping that could kill it. Just that when you do supplemented bags and don't completely get all of the air out before you fold the bag over and cut/poke holes, were there is this trapped air it will tend to fruit there.

The way I was doing my jars was with typical grain jar lids, 4 GE holes in the top. Since the jars were packed fairly tightly and the only way for air or gases to get to the substrate was through the holes, they would pin at the GE holes before anywhere else.

You can fruit your jars, but I am not sure how well they will do on straight grain. Too much nutrients can cause mutations or malformed fruits. If it's not too late you could just spawn them to pasteurized unsupplemented sawdust, it might give you better performance and can be done with boiling water. So you wont need your stove if you have an electric kettle. Look up Lipa's hardwood fuel pellet tek.

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25803052 -

This is my Lions Mane. Adding apples and carrots to the PDA agar medium will make the mycelium grow faster and it is not easy to grow out of the fruiting bodies. The mushroom bag should remain dark until the mycelium is full

http:// http:// http://


--------------------
I am interested in collecting and growing wild mushrooms.

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: wuxinzhu]
    #25804721 -

wuxinzhu said:
This is my Lions Mane. Adding apples and carrots to the PDA agar medium will make the mycelium grow faster and it is not easy to grow out of the fruiting bodies. The mushroom bag should remain dark until the mycelium is full

http:// http:// http://


they do look amazing. do you add apple and carrot water or the puree itself ?


--------------------
Rams' DIY spawn bags

Trade List


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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: rams]
    #25807408 -

rams said:
they do look amazing. do you add apple and carrot water or the puree itself ?


add apple and carrot water


--------------------
I am interested in collecting and growing wild mushrooms.

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: wuxinzhu]
    #25814090 -

Thanks All

Quick update - fruiting the lions mane jars in a monotub. I'd left them exposed in fruiting conditions and didn't think it'd be wise starting them again on another medium. They're growing and will update with pic at some point - not expecting much though).

I'm planning a new lions mane project. I'll be buying lions mane plugs from a local supplier and adding these straight to sawdust bags (RR's video tek).

I have previously bought the dowels and transferred to grain. Then used this in sawdust bags. I did this as I thought it'd make for fast colonisation, but had some issues with contam. I did get one sawdust bag that had a great run - let it fruit in bag and it filled out all the space with really good yield.

With ordering a load of plugs and adding to sterilised bags (in still air box), I 'm thinking it will be slower but easier to do multiple bags as I don't need to bother with grain. Likely less contam too.

I've got loads of sawdust and wheat bran to use for this. Regarding RRs video recipe, 1) can it be done without the woodchips? I don't have a free source and don't want to pay.. I have so much wheatbran, that I'm also wondering 2) would adding more than recipe states be of any benefit?

Any thoughts on the above plan would be very welcome and appreciated!

DigitalRhizae - thanks for the advice. The jar with tape was an accident, the polyfill came out and put over hole as temp fix (which I never got round to fixing). Thanks for clarification around lmiting air supply.

wuxinzhu - that looks great! What recipe do you use for your bags?

If anyone knows of good sources of info for growing lions mane, please post links! :smile:

Cheers All

LMN

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #25817038 -

If you were having contamination problems with grain to sterilized bags, it will likely be present in dowels to sterilized bags too. Try your best to figure out why your grain to bags were contaminating.

You don't need the wood chips in the substrate. The reason to add them as I understand it, is that they fill the air gaps. The wood chips give the mycelium a dense area to colonize so it doesn't have to grow aerial mycelium (filling the spaces between the sawdust) which is more difficult for the mycelium and slows colonization. But I've done both bags and jars with only supplemented sawdust and it worked fine.

Supplementation allows for higher yields but at a point there is diminishing returns and potential negative effects. If you supplement with more bran then %20 it's supposedly possible to develop mutant mushrooms from too much nutrition.

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #25824765 -

Thanks, I think there's a couple of reasons why some of the grain bags I've made from the dowels get contaminated - SAB technique could improve for sure, but having more success as I go.

Thanks for clarification on wood chips and wheat bran.

How do you get your LM sawdust bags/jars going? Do you use grain to inoculate?

Do you prefer bags or jars?

Also any tips on optimizing fruit conditions?

Thanks mate

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #25826154 -

I've documented the way I did it as best I could in my journal, but it's a long and boring read and I am sure there is much more efficient and better ways then my process. I was using grain liquid culture. The super condensed version is: Original source for the mycelium was from a sponsors syringe, 1-2ml went to a couple grain jars, used sterile water dumped into fully colonized grain jar, shaked jar and dumped back into original jar. These jars where then used as an inoculant for the final substrate. I've actually been using the same liquid inoculant for 3 years without noticeable lack in vigor.

I originally used filter patch bags, but didn't have good success because it was my first time and got put off on using them because the second time I tried to sterilize them they exploded inside the PC and it must have ran dry at one point because there was a bulge on the bottom of the pot. Took me awhile to get the nerve back to buy a new PC and try again. At the same time I was trying jars out for the simplicity of filling the PC and ease of mind, not having to worry about bags expanding or exploding.

Bags are probably the more professional way of growing, but with just a 21 quart PC or AA 921, I preferred jars. I was averaging about 66 grams per 500 grams of wet substrate per jar, first flush. Sometimes some of them would be 90+ grams, depending on how long they fruited for.

Keep humidity as high as possible and at least above 80% RH and have at least 4 fresh air exchanges per hour. Fresh air or at least circulating air is more important then you'd think initially. Also, vent your FC out and away from where you inhabit daily. If the fruits get too big and the spores get out of hand they can be pretty nasty and not good to breath in.

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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: DigitalRhizae]
    #26179507 -

Hi,

So an update on my Lions Mane / Reishi project.

I've got loads of saw dust bags on the go for both the LM and the Reishi. So far, I have only been fruiting these inside the bags. My reasoning is it worked well the first time; it's been set and forget, and I wanted to avoid contamination of the fruit - though, I think this is not a valid reason now on reflection due to several examples where the LM has forced it's way out of the bag into the open. No contamination present and appears to grow considerably faster like this. No doubt, this is due to increased air flow.

About my set up, it's in what was formerly a small walk-in wardrobe/room in my bedroom. Q1: DigitalRhizae, your last post about the spores being bad healthwise is obviously quite a concern. I don't really have any other space though, so not sure what to do about this.

The reason I came on today was to get some thoughts on what this discolouration is that is occuring in the bags. See pics. It's a weird kind of blue-ish/grey colour. It does not rub off when touched like trich mould.

I'm going to be harvesting the contents of the 4 bags which show this discolouration, and I will trim away areas that show this discolouration and discard. When I did my second batch of multiple LM bags, on noticed the fruit would quickly grow up the sides of the bag and often not fill the middle. So, I foolishly detached this growth from the walls by pinching the bag from the outside, and this meant it dropped to the bottom. This stalled growth quite considerably, but also left remnants of fruit on the side of the walls that presumably could've started making nasty stuff inside. Q2: If anyone can identify what this is, I'd be very grateful.
Regarding the reishi, I'm also letting it grow in the bag - it climbs the walls and seems to be fine. One bag was poorly secured, and the Reishi bag got exposed to the standard grow room air. It now has white dots/fur. See pics. Q3: can anyone identify this? Is it contaminated or is it okay?

I was planning on setting up a grow tent and fruiting in there will assistance of humidifiers. But, I am a bit concerned about contaminating the fruit/bags - as the room is inside my bedroom. And, I'd assume growing the fruits out of the bags will mean loads more spores in the air which presumably isn't good for me breathing in! Q4: Any thoughts/adivde on this would be great!

One of the bags has very clearly dropped spores on the inside of the bag wall, so I'm going to try to make a syringe from this.

Q5: If anyone has any links for good Lions Mane information resources, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks for stopping by and reading, and many thanks in advance for nay help/advice offered!

LMN



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Re: Sawdust Bags - Lions Mane & Reishi (Contam advice) [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #26179523 -

More pics


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What is this blue/grey discolouration! [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #26181052 -

Bump / more pics

Also, shouldve mentioned there is no foul smell from the discoloured areas. I considered bruising before but it seems to spread and the areas it appears to my knowledge have not had any reason to bruise.

This is not due to me pealing off the growth from the inside of the bags. Though that was stupid, it's not the cause as it has occured in a subsequent batch of bags. This has occurred at a low rate and only over time. 90% of bags shown no signs of this.

Yesterday, I harvested each block showing any signs of this. Then placed the blocks in new bags. Any discoloured bits I cut around and have frozen the remaining healthy fruit.

Thanks to anyone looking :wink:


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Re: What is this blue/grey discolouration! [Re: lionsmanenew]
    #26184070 -

Q1: as far as I know the general consensus is to vent the area away from living spaces and ideally provide a negative pressure inside the fruiting area to prevent it from escaping into the surrounding area. To pick the fruits early to prevent a large spore drop and if when/working in the fruiting area to wear appropriate mask (n100/p100 I think) to reduce inhalation.

Q2: I can't really see any discoloration from the photos myself, so I can't offer advice. But in general the culture once fully colonized should be pretty resistant to molds and bacteria for the first flush at least. In theory you should be able to open the bag right up to open air and not have issues for awhile and it's generally trichoderma that infects the mushroom after the fact.

Q3: I have no experience with reishi so can't offer advice, sorry.

Q4: Same as Q1, vent outside, pick early, wear mask and don't grow a lot. You shouldn't have to worry about keeping the fruiting area sterile, it needs to be relatively clean/sanitized but not sterile. Also if you are actively humidifying the tent or your closet you would also want to vent the air outside to prevent build up of humidity in the rest of your house. It would suck to have to deal with black mold or mildew in your living area as a result of your mushroom hobby.

Q5: Sorry, I don't have any links specifically for lions mane. Aleon had some amazing grows in the past, check out some of his stuff.

An observation on your current bags, with lions mane once they are fully colonized it's best to fruit them right away. You should have folded the bag down, removed as much air as possible, cut an X or poked a hole or two inside of the bag where you want fruits to form and put them in fruiting conditions. Some people will actually go by a time frame as opposed to a visual as to when to fruit lions mane, because sometimes the mycelium can be pretty wispy and difficult to see. As it gets older it will thicken up quiet a bit.

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