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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: XUL] * 3
    #25667278 -

no. I’m saying anyone who says scientists predicted the ice caps would melt by 2007 is lying. No scientists have made that prediction. Nobody knows the exact year it will happen. There is too much variability year to year, but the trend is down. I’ve heard scientists say “could happen AS EARLY AS 20xx” that isn’t a prediction it will happen by 20xx. That is the EARLIEST they expect it to happen.l

The fact that it will happen in 10 or 20 or 30 years should be shocking enough considering there has been ice there constantly for at least the last 2 million years.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: agent_smith] * 1
    #25667294 -

agent_smith said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
agent_smith said:
Okay, so what was the trigger event for the little ice age? Too many blacksmiths?


How would that cause an ice age?

It was triggered by volcanic eruptions.


That is nothing but a shot in the dark hypothesis, and here you are stating it as fact.

There's like three or four times more volcanic activity today than there was back then.




That chart is an embarrassment. Do you even know what you’re looking at? Each one of those VEI levels are on a logarithmic scale. VEI 1 and 2 are minuscule eruptions. A puff of smoke, while an 7 is like pinatubo (which lowered the earths temp a degree for a year). The total line adds everything up linearly. Just absolutely the most retarded chart I have ever seen.

You probably don’t understand what this means. Lemme explain. One level 7 eruption is equivalent to 1 million level 0 eruptions

You can’t even read or understand the data you’re looking at and you think you have any business arguing about this topic. I’ve seen a lot of stupid posts about this, but yours really rise to the top of the shit pile.

Why weren’t there as many eruptions 400 years ago? There were. It’s just there weren’t people counting every time a mountain farted like today.

BTW, even the most massive eruptions would only affect the climate for few years or a decade or two at the most.  I’m talking about an eruption that would cause mass extinctions... things would get back to normal fairly quickly. Another feature of valcano induced climate change is that while there is an overall cooling, it actually causes warmer winter temperatures.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (12/09/18 08:11 AM)

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: XUL]
    #25667318 -

Just to remind everyone the thread isn't solely about global warming/climate change. It's centered around the only efforts being put forth to confront it and their effects on humans. We've thrown renewable energy at it, but it has never stuck because of the inefficiencies, lack of availability, or cost. The economic approach is the only one we are implementing. We have electric cars sure, and non electric cars don't pollute nearly as much as they used to. I wouldn't say we are doing as much as we can either way, but the economic approach is so fucking lazy and lacks creativity.

A false narrative is being used out there that a country like France has the ability power their country like Norway does. That is an absolute fantasy. Norway has 5 million people in their country. A state like Virginia, not overly populated and not entirely huge, has over 8 million. While a state like California has over 40 million people. This is where I see the problem. It's not in denying climate change or driving electric cars. Modern civilization itself is built on fossil fuels and doesn't know how to get off them without creating a mass exodus of people living in highly populated areas.

We need to be creative and innovative. Like please the global warming/climate change debate is such a reciprocating fuck nut of an argument. IDC whether you believe it is the greatest threat to human life and IDC if you think it's fake news, doesn't exist or whatever. Put that argument to bed and focus on the effects of the solutions we are using to confront it.

Those people in France are fucking pissed. They aren't backing down. They don't want a tax increase. They want a tax decrease. Fuck some have even been heard saying they want Trump. Do not underestimate the destructive force of an angry mob.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

Edited by LRG (12/09/18 08:10 AM)

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: LRG] * 1
    #25667336 -

Norway is a petroleum economy with a sovereign wealth fund owned by the citizens worth almost a 1/4 of million per person.

France has almost no fossil fuel reserves and almost no fossil fuel industry. Getting off of them isn’t just about climate change, it’s good their economy.

Quote:
Fuck some have even been heard saying they want Trump.


There are stupid people in France, too. :shrug:

Edited by koods (12/09/18 08:25 AM)

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods]
    #25667343 -

koods said:
Norway is a petroleum economy with a sovereign wealth fund owned by the citizens worth almost a 1/4 of million per person.

France has almost no fossil fuel reserves and almost no fossil fuel industry. Getting off of them isn’t just about climate change, it’s good their economy.

Quote:
Fuck some have even been heard saying they want Trump.


There are stupid people in France, too. :shrug:



https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/renewable-energy/renewable-energy-production-in-norway/id2343462/

Read the fucking text and comprehend what it says. What powers a country koods? Is it electricity?


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: LRG]
    #25667359 -

Norway has hydroelectric power. What is your point?

You do know almost all of France’s electricity is hydro and nuclear, right? I think France has the highest percentage of nuclear generated electricity in the world.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (12/09/18 08:41 AM)

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods]
    #25667366 -

koods said:
Norway has hydroelectric power. What is your point?


I laid the point out clearly in the 2nd paragraph of the previous post.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: LRG] * 1
    #25667371 -

Yes. France supplies 67 million people with 90% non fossil fuel produced electricity. If your point is that France has too many people to not rely on fossil fuels for electricity production, you are just mistaken.

In fact it seems like France is in a better position to have almost no electricity produced with fossil fuels  than just about any other country since they have so much nuclear capacity. Just another 10% in renewables would close the gap.

Edited by koods (12/09/18 08:52 AM)

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods]
    #25667387 -

koods said:
Yes. France supplies 67 million people with 90% non fossil fuel produced electricity. If your point is that France has too many people to not rely on fossil fuels for electricity production, you are just mistaken.

In fact it seems like France is in a better position to have almost no electricity produced with fossil fuels  than just about any other country since they have so much nuclear capacity. Just another 10% in renewables would close the gap.


They do, and they also plan to reduce that nuclear production percentage to 50% by 2035. Yet, despite all that clean energy they are still taxing people for electricity like it's all coming from fossil fuels.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods] * 2
    #25667398 -

France is the fourth least fossil fuel dependent country in the world :shrug:

Norway is seventh

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-least-dependent-on-fossil-fuel-sources-for-energy-needs.html


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods]
    #25667402 -

koods said:
France is the fourth least fossil fuel dependent country in the world :shrug:

Norway is seventh

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-least-dependent-on-fossil-fuel-sources-for-energy-needs.html


Then why are they taxing their citizens for fossil fuel consumption?


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: LRG] * 1
    #25667409 -

LRG said:
koods said:
Yes. France supplies 67 million people with 90% non fossil fuel produced electricity. If your point is that France has too many people to not rely on fossil fuels for electricity production, you are just mistaken.

In fact it seems like France is in a better position to have almost no electricity produced with fossil fuels  than just about any other country since they have so much nuclear capacity. Just another 10% in renewables would close the gap.


They do, and they also plan to reduce that nuclear production percentage to 50% by 2035. Yet, despite all that clean energy they are still taxing people for electricity like it's all coming from fossil fuels.


Idk what the hell youre taking about. France has one of the lowest electricity costs in Europe.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods]
    #25667414 -

koods said:
LRG said:
koods said:
Yes. France supplies 67 million people with 90% non fossil fuel produced electricity. If your point is that France has too many people to not rely on fossil fuels for electricity production, you are just mistaken.

In fact it seems like France is in a better position to have almost no electricity produced with fossil fuels  than just about any other country since they have so much nuclear capacity. Just another 10% in renewables would close the gap.


They do, and they also plan to reduce that nuclear production percentage to 50% by 2035. Yet, despite all that clean energy they are still taxing people for electricity like it's all coming from fossil fuels.


Idk what the hell youre taking about. France has one of the lowest electricity costs in Europe.


So they don't tax citizens for electricity and use some of that money generated to subsidize low income households?


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: LRG] * 2
    #25667418 -

LRG said:
koods said:
France is the fourth least fossil fuel dependent country in the world :shrug:

Norway is seventh

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-least-dependent-on-fossil-fuel-sources-for-energy-needs.html


Then why are they taxing their citizens for fossil fuel consumption?


It’s a usage tax. They don’t get taxed if they aren’t using fossil fuels. It’s a tax on gasoline, essentially. If you buy an electric car you aren’t paying it.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: LRG] * 1
    #25667422 -

LRG said:
koods said:
LRG said:
koods said:
Yes. France supplies 67 million people with 90% non fossil fuel produced electricity. If your point is that France has too many people to not rely on fossil fuels for electricity production, you are just mistaken.

In fact it seems like France is in a better position to have almost no electricity produced with fossil fuels  than just about any other country since they have so much nuclear capacity. Just another 10% in renewables would close the gap.


They do, and they also plan to reduce that nuclear production percentage to 50% by 2035. Yet, despite all that clean energy they are still taxing people for electricity like it's all coming from fossil fuels.


Idk what the hell youre taking about. France has one of the lowest electricity costs in Europe.


So they don't tax citizens for electricity and use some of that money generated to subsidize low income households?


The entire point of the tax is to de-incentivize the use of fossil fuels. Why would they tax electricity if they are trying to switch people to other energy sources

Do you know how much macrons tax would add to the cost of gas? About 25 cents a gallon.

Edited by koods (12/09/18 09:18 AM)

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods] * 2
    #25667463 -

Quote:
hose people in France are fucking pissed. They aren't backing down. They don't want a tax increase. They want a tax decrease. Fuck some have even been heard saying they want Trump. Do not underestimate the destructive force of an angry mob.



This is where leadership is key. Nobody likes taxes, but maybe they are necessary in this case. We have to get off of fossil fuels and nobody thinks the solutions are going to be pleasant. Sometimes leaders have to do things that are unpopular. That’s what real leadership is.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods]
    #25667501 -

koods said:
The entire point of the tax is to de-incentivize the use of fossil fuels. Why would they tax electricity if they are trying to switch people to other energy sources

Do you know how much macrons tax would add to the cost of gas? About 25 cents a gallon.


They do tax electricity though. https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/utilities/electricity/tariff
---> And with no end in site to the increases for electricity that is not created by fossil fuels. It doesn't matter if you have a gas heated home or not. The prices for all electrical power are increasing.

25 cents a gallon, sooo $7.25 cents a gallon. Great. Europe has always had much higher gas prices than the US, but back when I lived in Italy it was about $4 a gallon. This has merely compounded their problems. These people use about half the amount of electricity as we do in America, but pay almost as much as we do. You can find forums where these low income people are grumbling about their electric bills, but they have wood stoves to heat half their home, only use heat to keep the temperature above 60, and have the entire collectible set of green energy household appliances. And yet their electric bills are equatable to over $100. That's a problem.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: koods]
    #25667554 -

Just as an aside, I do believe in climate change. Personally, I can't speak for the entire world, but my father worked for the Department of Environmental Protection in PA. He was a high ranking boss who cleaned up a lot of acid mine drainage and even made reports on illegal dump areas, which resulted in death threats. He was respectable.

He told me about the changes he had seen in his time at the DEP. He told me about growth on top of mountains and different plant life growing. He believed in PH levels changing in the soil.

I don't doubt that there is climate change, but I do think the there is a middle ground solution. Peasants shouldn't  pay the massive cost of drastic infrastructure change.

It's important to be aware, but the solutions in have to be reasonable.

France is not Reasonable


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25667641 -

You don’t think it’s reasonable to punitively tax the use of fossil fuels? If you don’t use them you don’t pay the tax. Seriously, the energy cost for an electric car is almost negligible. $10-$15 of electricity for a month of average commuter driving. My neighbor has one and solar panels so he drives for free and has surplus electricity most months. Sometimes people need to be pushed into making change.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: France's carbon tax. [Re: LRG]
    #25667652 -

LRG said:
koods said:
The entire point of the tax is to de-incentivize the use of fossil fuels. Why would they tax electricity if they are trying to switch people to other energy sources

Do you know how much macrons tax would add to the cost of gas? About 25 cents a gallon.


They do tax electricity though. https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/utilities/electricity/tariff
---> And with no end in site to the increases for electricity that is not created by fossil fuels. It doesn't matter if you have a gas heated home or not. The prices for all electrical power are increasing.

25 cents a gallon, sooo $7.25 cents a gallon. Great. Europe has always had much higher gas prices than the US, but back when I lived in Italy it was about $4 a gallon. This has merely compounded their problems. These people use about half the amount of electricity as we do in America, but pay almost as much as we do. You can find forums where these low income people are grumbling about their electric bills, but they have wood stoves to heat half their home, only use heat to keep the temperature above 60, and have the entire collectible set of green energy household appliances. And yet their electric bills are equatable to over $100. That's a problem.


Every country pays more for gas. We should be taxing it way more to pay for infrastructure and incentivize the use of higher efficiency cars. GMs decision to close those plants was due in part to lagging demand for electric vehicles and smaller cars because Americans would rather drive fucking suburbans.

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