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Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]
    #5458165 - 03/30/06 03:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i almost went to jail in Paris.. twice..

luckily, all i have are good memories!


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Posts: 32,665
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]
    #5460840 - 03/30/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think it's fair to assume that it is not cost effective
for employers to continually oust people.

training and hiring costs are expensive.

so are bleeting heart liberal employment laws like minimum
wage and limiting employer's ability to hire/fire/repurpose
workers according to market needs.

the invisible hand finds balance while the whiney one winds
up tipping the scales against itself.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: afoaf]
    #5461168 - 03/30/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

so are bleeting heart liberal employment laws like minimum
wage and limiting employer's ability to hire/fire/repurpose



Are you pining for the days of serfdom?

Coming from the underbelly of the lower class, it is common practice for employers in America to fire tenured, above average salaried workers, chop off their benefits and throw them to the dogs of relentless free-for-fall capitalism. This is what the French wish to avoid, I imagine. I find the French protests admirable. It is far more than I can say about my apathetic, obese fellow countrymen as their individial civil liberties and worker rights are being slowly sliced away.

The French system as it stood before the CPE favored the workers, now it favors the employers. Choose a side.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]
    #5461178 - 03/30/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Willing... maybe, but not by government coersion.

Able is another matter. Sometimes businesses just suck, and don't make any money.


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: bukkake]
    #5461274 - 03/30/06 07:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Your scenario couldn't be more irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The law has no bearing on tenured, well-salaried workers, considering
the fact that people generally achieve that status WELL PAST 2 years
in most cases and are usually older than 26.

Unless it's an inept teacher in LA Unified, you'd be hard pressed
to find me someone younger than 26 with an overpaid and/or tenured
position

If the law, instead, was worded to give employers the right to fire
people with a considerable amount of time in the job, regardless of
merit then I would be a little more sympathetic.

But once again, people miss the point and go right for the kleenex
and tears.

read the posted article:

Under current law, merit in the workplace has little sway. Workers
cannot be easily or inexpensively fired.

As a result, employers are reluctant to hire, resulting in an overall
French unemployment rate of 9.6 percent. The CPE would allow employers
to hire and fire workers who are 26 years old and younger any time within
their first two years of employment for any reason.


If I was going to protest, I'd protest the fact that a bunch of
entitled retards are allowed to keep cashing a paycheck because
the government has limited my ability as a businessman to manage
and reward my workforce based on merit.

This affects employees because less money is available to reward
productive members of the workforce because it is being used to
subsidize the unproductive ones.

As others have mentioned, I am also in an at-will state. I could
be fired tommorrow, but I won't be because I bust my ass and it
does not behoove my company to lose the investment they have made
in me.

While your example of so-called serfdom is not germane to this
topic, I will address it by saying that in the long run, companies
can not maintain the hiring/firing practices that you mention.
This is because of public outrage (a la Walmart) as well as a
growing inability to fill new positions. At the end of the day,
businesses don't make profits with RIFs, but they are a necessary
tool that a business should be free to wield as they see fit,
regardless of what a bunch of lazy socialists think.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: afoaf]
    #5464615 - 03/31/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

How about screaming because the government has allowed some no account ne'er do well to keep the job I'd be willing to work hard at but can't get because it's already taken. Forever.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5465347 - 03/31/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
How about screaming because the government has allowed some no account ne'er do well to keep the job I'd be willing to work hard at but can't get because it's already taken. Forever.




It is so simple, yet so many appear not to understand.

This seems to me like the social security debate in the US. Both sides admit that the problem is there but one side prevents reform out of principle regardless of whether it is the logical thing to do. This has to be what is going on because the law seems to be common sense considering unemployment among French youth is the highest in western europe.

Can anyone explain why unemployed people are protesting a law that allows companies to replace employed people?


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Catalysis]
    #5465556 - 03/31/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

because they are french and would rather throw trashcans
through the local cheese shop's window and burn their
neighbor's le car instead of pulling their heads far
enough out of their ass to figure it out?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: afoaf]
    #5465619 - 03/31/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
Your scenario couldn't be more irrelevant to the topic at hand.



What will stop employers from hiring under 26'ers and not bothering to hire over 26's and repeating the process? Not much. It is another step towards worker exploitation and people outside of France are mystified as to why?

Again, this is an issue of employer against employee.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: bukkake]
    #5465657 - 03/31/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:
What will stop employers from hiring under 26'ers and not bothering to hire over 26's and repeating the process? Not much.



What would stop employers from avoiding france altogether and doing business in a free country? Not much.


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Invisiblebukkake
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Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: DieCommie]
    #5465904 - 03/31/06 11:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A free country by what definition? Where the exploiting and plundering by wealthy capitalist, corporate companies is okay in third world shitholes where there are no worker rights?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: bukkake]
    #5466652 - 04/01/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You do realize that the U.S. federal government has no say as to what happens in another sovereign country's borders? They also have no say on where a company can go set up shop. If some U.S. company wants to go open a factory in Middle-of-nowhere-istan and exploit the workers....the U.S. federal government has no authority to stop such a thing.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5466986 - 04/01/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You do realize that the U.S. federal government has no say as to what happens in another sovereign country's borders?

Hmm...are you sure about that one Randall? You honestly can't think of a case where the US has influenced what happened inside another country's borders?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]
    #5466993 - 04/01/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

So its bad if the US govt. influences another country, unless it has to do with labor practices, then its good.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: DieCommie]
    #5467000 - 04/01/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No, it's good if it's good.


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OfflineBikerfool
Your Local Edgelord
Male

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 1,577
Last seen: 5 months, 13 days
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: afoaf]
    #5467012 - 04/01/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I wish Americans had that kind of passion...


--------------------
Just an angsty teen contributing to the pubs decline with contentless posts.


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Invisiblebukkake
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5467044 - 04/01/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
You do realize that the U.S. federal government has no say as to what happens in another sovereign country's borders? They also have no say on where a company can go set up shop. If some U.S. company wants to go open a factory in Middle-of-nowhere-istan and exploit the workers....the U.S. federal government has no authority to stop such a thing.



You do realize there are several free trade agreements, and the business sector in America is as tied into American governance as the political sector. If the latter even exists anymore.

Quote:

I wish Americans had that kind of passion...



Exactly. Instead, they're left as Homer Simpsons watching fucking Survivor and American Idol over becoming politically active regarding the things directly affecting them.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]
    #5467119 - 04/01/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
You do realize that the U.S. federal government has no say as to what happens in another sovereign country's borders?

Hmm...are you sure about that one Randall? You honestly can't think of a case where the US has influenced what happened inside another country's borders?




I just knew you were going to call me on that.  :grin:

Of course the U.S. federal government has used its influence to help accomplish certain things in some countries.  For example, the U.S. federal government uses money and military aid to help the Colombian government fight the cocaine gangs and it also gives weapons to the Israeli's which often end up being used against Palestinian Islamic militants. 

But, when a U.S. company decides to set up shop in some country and this particular country allows it....what does the U.S. government have to do with that at all?  To me, the whole matter is between the company and the government of the country in question.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Bikerfool]
    #5467123 - 04/01/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bikerfool said:
I wish Americans had that kind of passion...




Turn on some football and hand us a beer and you'll see passion.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: bukkake]
    #5467130 - 04/01/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bukkake said:
You do realize there are several free trade agreements, and the business sector in America is as tied into American governance as the political sector. If the latter even exists anymore.




Free trade agreements have nothing to do with this. This whole argument is about companies deciding to go set up shop in a non-U.S. area. The U.S. federal government has no authority over such a situation.


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