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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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 Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded  [Re: Catalysis]
#5467148 - 04/01/06 11:21 AM (18 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Catalysis said:
Can anyone explain why unemployed people are protesting a law that allows companies to replace employed people?
Because it's not unemployed people protesting. It's mostly a bunch of jerk-off students who are afraid of competing in the real world. FLF: Future Losers of France. A bunch of chicken shit negativists. Grow some balls. Make yourself useful to your employer and he will make himself useful to you. Why are they so afraid of a meritocracy? Is it because they suspect that they lack merit?
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 RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: zappaisgod]
#5467161 - 04/01/06 11:26 AM (18 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Grow some balls.
[joke]
French people do not have that ability.
[/end joke]
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: zappaisgod]
#5467164 - 04/01/06 11:27 AM (18 years, 20 days ago) |
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Are you still pissed because France didn't buy the whole WMD bullshit Bush was selling?
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]
#5467168 - 04/01/06 11:28 AM (18 years, 20 days ago) |
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While I am perturbed at the overly Leftist bent of French politics and media, I do not understand why American Righties loathe that country and its people so much.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]
#5467287 - 04/01/06 12:03 PM (18 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said:
Are you still pissed because France didn't buy the whole WMD bullshit Bush was selling?
They didn't? I didn't know that. I thought that they thought the same thing but didn't agree to the invasion because they were being bought off, like Russia, by Saddam.
Just what does this have to do with my disgust at people who think they are owed something they have done nothing to earn?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5467337 - 04/01/06 12:17 PM (18 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
While I am perturbed at the overly Leftist bent of French politics and media, I do not understand why American Righties loathe that country and its people so much.
Because of their undeserved presence on the UN Security Council, because of their disgraceful willingness to be bought off by any asshole with cash, because of their incredible arrogance in the face of their increasing irrelevance, because of their astonishing hypocrisy, because they are a bunch of laydown twats without the wherewithal or courage to defend themselves yet have the nerve to pass judgment on their protectors.
But this has nothing to do with the current issue. Well maybe the courage thing does. Embrace competition. Win, or at least try. You'll be better off.
French character. Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. They can do whatever they want to fuck themselves. You can bet your ass I'll be standing there applauding their efforts. "Way to go retards. Now get the fuck out of the way you incredible morons. Oh, and thanks for the cheese. It was redolent of twat yet had a lingering bite of week-old sneaker and anus."
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: DieCommie]
#5467413 - 04/01/06 12:38 PM (18 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
bukkake said:
What will stop employers from hiring under 26'ers and not bothering to hire over 26's and repeating the process? Not much.
What would stop employers from avoiding france altogether and doing business in a free country? Not much.
C'mon, bukkake, think it through...
Because, that's an untenable and bankrupting proposition, nevermind
knee-jerk and thoughtless.
The whole premise of this new law isn't to drive France into a squalid
standard of living. The point is to move the country closer to merit
based employment arrangements, and away from socialist satisficing.
Let's throw out all the labor laws in france that would prevent your
scenario, and the fact that the government is trying to improve their
economy not destory it, and let's assume that they fired everyone at
25.9 years old and only employed people younger than that age...
Most people haven't advanced very far, in terms of (technical) proficiency,
in their careers at 26. In technological and scientific positions, you'd
discover very quickly that unless your population completed their doctorates
at age 8, and worked 18 years in a field before the 25.9yo fire date, your
country is going to be shit out of luck outside the scope of the basic,
low-skill industries this type of business practice would relegate the country
to.
To suggest that this is a slippery slope that ultimately leads to France
actively preventing the majority of its workforce from participating in
the job market is actually pretty comical.
Is that what you were going for?
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: afoaf]
#5469537 - 04/01/06 11:27 PM (18 years, 19 days ago) |
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Employment laws are a constant struggle between employee and employer. Throughout history employers have been notorious for exploiting their employee workforce.
What I am going for is supporting those on the ground of France and more knowledgable than you and I and with a better understanding of the proposed laws at hand.
Is it or is it not possible for employers to exploit this law to their own benefit? The law is designed to protect employers, not employees. That is why they despise is.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: bukkake]
#5470003 - 04/02/06 04:18 AM (18 years, 19 days ago) |
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Is it or is it not possible for employers to exploit this law to their own benefit? The law is designed to protect employers, not employees. That is why they despise is.
Amen.
The French know this is just the thin end of the wedge. Let this through and next year employers will suggest "We should be allowed to fire anyone of any age without reason. And you can trust us, we won't fire anyone who breathes the word "union" or "increased pay" or "safe working conditions". Just trust us".
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Alex213]  1
#5470013 - 04/02/06 04:23 AM (18 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
because of their disgraceful willingness to be bought off by any asshole with cash
how is this country any different? and even more specifically.. the republican party of this country, which are the ones most opposed to the french..
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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: bukkake]
#5479549 - 04/04/06 03:21 PM (18 years, 16 days ago) |
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a law that benefits an employer does not preclude the possibility
that it could ultimately also benefit the employee.
I don't think there's any great secret here that the people on
the streets of france know that we don't about the situation.
the facts are plain and well documented, outrageous and chronic
unemployment, socialized employment schemes and stagnating business.
this is a case-study for econ 201.
merit based employment contracts benefit employers and employees
because it ensures direct compensation relative to your effort
and a productive and motivated workforce.
knowing you will directly benefit from your actions foments more
fruitful work environments than one with strict pay schedules
and little negative impact for failure. think DMV.
curiously, do you agree with the notion of government enforcing
the perpetual employment of people who do not adequately perform
their jobs? if so, to what end?
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: afoaf]
#5499123 - 04/10/06 08:24 AM (18 years, 11 days ago) |
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oh well, I guess no one wanted to debate this anymore.
France is rescinding the proposed law.
all those protesters should be thankful that they will
now continue on their plight of high unemployment and
stagnating business.
Hell No! We Won't Work!
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: afoaf]
#5502863 - 04/11/06 09:51 AM (18 years, 10 days ago) |
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The French Employment Fiasco
by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
Americans can only be mystified by the protests that rocked France and led to a cave in by the government. A small economic reform that would have meant the start of much-need liberalization has been repealed.
The change in labor law would have permitted employers to fire workers, age 25 years or younger, in the first two years of employment. On the surface, it seems that workers in this category ? backed by nearly the whole of French public opinion ? regard this common-sense change as treason to all that is good and just. In fact, they are demanding what no dynamic and productive economy can or should ever promise: lifetime job security.
Under the present system, there is no fraternity or equality much less liberty. Workers are free to withdraw from their jobs. To leave employment is rightly considered a human right; to deny it is tantamount to slavery or feudal serfdom. At the same time, then, it is pure hypocrisy to expect that the employer not be able to sever contracts with employees. To deny that ? as the French protestors demand ? is tantamount to enslaving employers and turning them into indentured servants of workers and their unions.
Many Americans and most reporters look at this situation and dismiss everything the workers are demanding as socialist rubbish. There is truth in that. And yet there are other reasons for their reaction beyond ideological corruption. The unemployment rate in France exceeds 10 percent, and it is on the rise. Among the group hit by the proposed reform, the rate is 22 percent. Every young person knows that it is incredibly difficult to find employment. Once they get it, they want to hold onto it for dear life.
Permanent employment is completely incompatible with productivity in a dynamic market setting. French business has responded in two ways: refusing to hire new people or hiring them only on a short-term basis. The problem with the second solution is another regulation that forbids the temporary employment contract to be used as a means of hiring those who are really permanent employees. So unless the business is prepared to take on the huge costs of permanent employment, the employer must let these "temporary" workers go, no matter how much investment the firm has in them.
These kinds of practices ? brought about by regulation ? have acculturated French workers into misunderstanding the nature of the labor contract. In a free market it is a mutually beneficial exchange like any other that takes place between a buyer and a seller. Both come to the bargaining table with equal power and they only make the exchange if both sides expect to benefit.
This system does not exist in France because a vast and incomprehensible code of regulations interferes. As a result, there is no evidence of a dynamic market for labor anywhere in sight. Rather than create new opportunities by deregulating the business environment, the government has chosen to make jobs even less secure and more vulnerable. It doesn't matter that the effect of the change might be to intensify demand for workers; with millions currently looking for work and finding none, it is easy to see why the young are in a panic.
Imagine if jobs were available for everyone who wanted to work. What if "help wanted" signs were everywhere? What if skilled laborers could pick where they wanted to work, and unskilled laborers could gain skills in a large range of environments? Or imagine if French workers were in the position of deciding ? as many young Americans are ? whether to work for someone else's company or take the risk of starting their own.
If that were the case, I would venture a guess that there would be no energy behind any protests of a law that grants business more liberality in firing. And yet a huge range of laws prevent that from happening. It is not easy to start a business in France or hire people. The taxes, mandates, and wage controls are wickedly restrictive. In the name of human rights, France has managed to deny people their most basic right of contributing to society in a manner of their own choosing.
But how can we know that a free market would guarantee high employment opportunities? In any society, in any time in human history, there is always and everywhere work to be done because there are people with unmet needs. That is because we live in a world of scarcity. Think of this in terms of your own domestic environment. Is there work to be done on your plumbing, paint, carpets, yard, and cabinetry? Is there not work you would gladly have done if the price were right? Of course there is. And this is true in every sector of society.
When we speak of unemployment, we cannot be talking about a shortage of jobs to be done. There is always work to do at some price. For that reason, there can be no such thing as involuntary unemployment in a free market. Everyone who wants to work is working and everyone who does not want to work is in that position by choice. This is a truth that follows from the universal reality of scarcity.
There are only two reasons for unemployment: legal restrictions that forbid contracts from forming (France has plenty, and the United States does too) and price restrictions that prevent the market for labor from clearing properly (France has that too, as does the US). In other words, involuntary unemployment is always and everywhere brought about by the same cause: government restriction of the market.
So we don't have to puzzle about why there is unemployment in France. We know why. The proposal to loosen labor regulations addresses only a tiny part of the reason. And that is precisely the problem with the reform: it doesn't go nearly far enough. France needs reform that simultaneously frees business in its hiring and firing decisions, frees wages to adjust based on supply and demand, frees the business sector from regulations that inhibit entrepreneurship, and reduces the costs of hiring by eliminating mandates and taxes.
So the answer to the protests is not to back away from reform but to go much, much further. A reform that hits monopoly business privileges and created new opportunities for workers would be seen as more equitable. It would give French workers hope for the future so they could see beyond the immediate need for security above all else.
Thus does France find itself in a bind, not just now but long-term. It can either go further toward socialism and thereby kill off what is left of French civilization, or it can push harder for sweeping and truly radical reform, one that creates a liberalized environment not just in one area but in all areas.
In short, France is in the bind that Eastern Europe and Russia found themselves in in the late 1980s. If young workers were thinking like true progressives, they would topple the statues of Rousseau and Robespierre and put up some to Turgot and Bastiat.
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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: I'm pretty sure that France is fucking retarded [Re: Ancalagon]
#5503216 - 04/11/06 11:54 AM (18 years, 10 days ago) |
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great article.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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