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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Why income taxes must be abolished
    #3251878 - 10/19/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'm sure many of you have heard me and others talk about income taxes being theft or slavery, so I'll spare you the repetition. There are other, more pragmatic reasons, why income taxes have to go. The federal government survived without income taxes until the passage of the 16th Ammendment in 1913. Until then, it used tariffs and excise taxes for money, as prescribed by the Constitution. The reason the founding fathers favored these forms of taxation is because they inherently limited how big the government could get. These taxes affect the price of goods, so if the government became too zealous in raising those taxes, then people would reduce their consumption of such goods, thus preventing the government from collecting those taxes, and keeping the size and scope of government at a minimum. Now, let me be clear here: there is no such thing as a good tax. All taxes involve some sort of force, and these are no exceptions. However, these taxes are sufficient for funding the legitimate functions of government, while limiting it from growing too large.

When you tax labor, as income taxes do, people can't very well stop working, so the government can raise income taxes as much as they want and people would still have to work. This is what financed the enourmous growth of the federal government over the course of the 20th century.

Within a few years of the 16th amendment's passage, America entered World War I, which it could not afford to do without income taxes. In that war, America's involvement swayed the war heavily in favor of the Allied forces. As a result, a humilated Germany had to sign the oppressive Versailles treaty, which later became the ammunition which fueled the election of Adolph Hitler. Meanwhile, the Ottoman Empire was broken up and given to England and France, creating the root of most of the current problems in the Middle East. If America had stayed out of the war, it is likely that the two sides might have come to a peace agreement sooner, without such a clear advantage for one side. Since then, American interventionism has become commonplace.

Meanwhile, federal intervention in domestic affairs has skyrocketed as well. From prohibition to corporate subsidies to HMO's and so on, it seems there is nothing which the federal government does not consider its business. Those of you who don't mind paying high taxes should consider the fact that much of your taxes are spent on locking up people just like you. Even if drug prohibition came to an end, there would still be corporate welfare and endless other government programs intended to tell people how they can and can't live.

Of course, thanks to the Federal Reserve, which started the same year as income taxes, the government has found a way to lower taxes while still increasing the size and scope of its power. It was designed to prevent banking crises, and its effectiveness in doing so was demonstrated in 1929, with the worst banking crisis in U.S. History. Meanwhile, it has increased inflation astronomically and put our government in enourmous debt to foreign nations.

So, for those of you who insist on keeping a social safety net, I offer a compromise: Abolish income taxes and the Federal Reserve, and then if you can still afford pay for a social safety net and the legitimate functions of government with tariffs and excise taxes, then be my guest. While I personally doubt the effectiveness of such programs, I won't bitch about it as long as it's not paid for involuntarily by my labor.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Why income taxes must be abolished [Re: silversoul7]
    #3251899 - 10/19/04 04:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I think even communist russia went with a simple flat tax.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisibleretread
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
Re: Why income taxes must be abolished [Re: silversoul7]
    #3251924 - 10/19/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

DO you think that this non-nation, this group (if even) of individuals, will have ANYWHERE NEAR the sucess that America has today?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why income taxes must be abolished [Re: retread]
    #3252004 - 10/19/04 04:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

retread said:
DO you think that this non-nation, this group (if even) of individuals, will have ANYWHERE NEAR the sucess that America has today?



Define "success." By success, do you mean sticking our nose in the business of other countries, causing us to be hated by all? Do you mean assuming the responsibility to fight for the freedom of people in other countries at the expense of our own freedom? Do you mean being some 7 and a half trillion dollars in debt to foreign banks? If that is what you mean by success, then no.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: Why income taxes must be abolished [Re: retread]
    #3252743 - 10/19/04 07:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

retread said:
DO you think that this non-nation, this group (if even) of individuals, will have ANYWHERE NEAR the sucess that America has today?



America(ns) succeed IN SPITE of government, not because of it -- and how does the end of the income tax mean that the notion of the United States of America as a country will be gone? Did you read Silver's post? The United States of America existed quite nicely from 1789-1913 before a set income tax was instituted. What, exactly, are you talking about?


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineBleaK
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: Why income taxes must be abolished [Re: Ancalagon]
    #3253479 - 10/19/04 11:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

why did the other thread entitled taxes != theft disapear after the servers went down?


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why income taxes must be abolished [Re: BleaK]
    #3254365 - 10/20/04 01:56 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BleaK said:
why did the other thread entitled taxes != theft disapear after the servers went down?



Please read the sticky thread at the top of EVERY SINGLE FORUM. kthx.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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