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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Success * 1
    #25612089 -

Is success, and by that I mean professional or financial success, just another holy grail? Does it really make people consistently happy over the long term? Or is it just another phenomenon we optimistically seek, that turns out to be another hollow attachment? I could be off-base, but I'd enjoy some input from others on the subject.

It seems to me that the wise man measures his success, not in dollars, but in degree of awareness.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25612226 -

DividedQuantum said:
Is success, and by that I mean professional or financial success, just another holy grail? Does it really make people consistently happy over the long term? Or is it just another phenomenon we optimistically seek, that turns out to be another hollow attachment? I could be off-base, but I'd enjoy some input from others on the subject.

It seems to me that the wise man measures his success, not in dollars, but in degree of awareness.


The answer must be partly contextual, must it not?
Hence the terms 'householders' & 'monks' for example in Buddhism.

Others might make some points about attachment
as the Bagavagita does
or
how one 'holds' something, vs what one 'holds'

So the formula according to the above would be:
it is the duty of the head of family household to be successful in business
and so feed and support the family
but he/she should not be attached to worldly success, (ie. pursue it compulsively)
as the 'kingdom of heaven' is within

& it is the duty of the monk/nun to meditate, beg for food, and eat what is given
without indulging in like and dislike
and to meditate and manifest calm and compassion

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #25612234 -

Success is just a needed part of each persons purpose narrative.
Why try if you cannot succeed.

All false but seemingly neccessary for most.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25612324 -

DividedQuantum said:
Is success, and by that I mean professional or financial success, just another holy grail? Does it really make people consistently happy over the long term? Or is it just another phenomenon we optimistically seek, that turns out to be another hollow attachment? I could be off-base, but I'd enjoy some input from others on the subject.

It seems to me that the wise man measures his success, not in dollars, but in degree of awareness.



The true measure of success is success across multiple areas. The degree to which you are aware your success is dependent upon your ability to think and act is the foundation of stacking success and stacking success is fundamentally optimistic. Accumulating successful outcomes gives us a model of how to better act within the world, and the truly successful person will share that method of success with others. In other words, since something was successful in the past you are optimistic it will also work in the future or an improved process will yield even better results. The successful and wise person understands the power of thought and the diversity of thought. Essentially and ideally creating a structure of success where the originator remains on the top while increasing the area of influence. This falls in line with multiple areas and hopefully improving the process of success.

Being happy seems to fall in line with success. It's hard to believe someone with a beautiful family, stable job, nice house, and wisdom is unhappy. Some people's ideas of success leads them to tilt the scales of life, and that can lead to unhappiness. That is a question only an individual can answer and do something about.


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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: Success [Re: pineninja]
    #25612410 -

pineninja said:
Success is just a needed part of each persons purpose narrative.
Why try if you cannot succeed.

All false but seemingly neccessary for most.



Yeah, that's the thing. Success surely must be striven for by most people, but it seems that once success is achieved, happiness usually isn't. Or if it is, it fades away rather quickly.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25612503 -

healing is success
everything else is normal

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Re: Success [Re: LRG]
    #25612515 -

LRG said:
Being happy seems to fall in line with success. It's hard to believe someone with a beautiful family, stable job, nice house, and wisdom is unhappy.


When people believe success will bring happiness, they are often very disappointed!

Look at all of the successful people who have killed themselves.

The list is very long . . .

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25612862 -

DividedQuantum said:
Is success, and by that I mean professional or financial success, just another holy grail? Does it really make people consistently happy over the long term? Or is it just another phenomenon we optimistically seek, that turns out to be another hollow attachment? I could be off-base, but I'd enjoy some input from others on the subject.

It seems to me that the wise man measures his success, not in dollars, but in degree of awareness.


you defined 'success' as 'financial success', which being just one aspect of life obviously, guaranties nothing. Human beings need to be 'firing on all cylinders' so to speak, to have the satisfaction of realizing their potential.

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Re: Success [Re: laughingdog]
    #25613328 -

Success is something all people strive for.. in fact.. all beings of any animal grade seek for..


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Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Success [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25613329 -

The good question would be is why do we do anything at all...?

Probably to succeed! But why must we succeed?


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: Success [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25613558 -

Fortunately, everyone has different goals which gives way to the diversity of life, and so, 'success' is nothing more than a personal and contextual measure.

In many cases, however, people strive to make it a non-personal, concrete term for the sake of trying to establish a base of comparison.

'Success' isn't Facebook.

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Re: Success [Re: laughingdog]
    #25614004 -

laughingdog said:
you defined 'success' as 'financial success', which being just one aspect of life obviously, guaranties nothing. Human beings need to be 'firing on all cylinders' so to speak, to have the satisfaction of realizing their potential.



Yes, typically in the U.S., we equate success with the "American Dream," which, as far as I can tell, means having a lot of money. We see over and over that this does not in fact bring happiness to very many people who achieve it, which is part of the basis of this thread. I think you're quite right that if a person is realizing hir potential, and really thriving in all areas of life, we could call this success and it would be rewarding. But I think the definition most people use has more of a financial basis, at least for Americans.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25614415 -

An odd thought is that very breath a person has taken,
has been a successful one,
or they wouldn't be alive.

Considering this,
it seems it must be 'ego',
and its narrative,
that divide a person's,
movie of their life,
into artificial chapters called:
good & bad;
successful & unsuccessful.

If we take this to be true;
then its the process of creating
and believing,
one's narrative,
that is actually the most,
counter productive,
(activity in a person's life).

Of course this maybe over simplified
but perhaps it has a kernel of truth

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Re: Success [Re: laughingdog]
    #25614526 -

No, I think it's true. The games our ego plays with us inflate our sense of self, prevent us from seeing the truth (even when it would be obvious to someone else) and make us want things that will not make us happy and are often quite harmful in a number of ways. I think the personal narrative most people have, at least Americans, is so out of touch with anything reasonable that things like the American Dream become sacrosanct, when in fact such ideas are quite hollow and destructive. The human ego doesn't really do the species or the planet any favors, but boy, is it powerful.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25614538 -

Self manufacture or forced upon?

It's like a magic trick using diversion to hold ones attention in all the wrong spots.

Or a pickpocket......


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Success [Re: pineninja]
    #25614867 -

I think both. We have our internal emotional drives, and an outside world built to take advantage of them. We are self-centered and spoiled. Your metaphors are spot-on, I think.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Success [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25614921 -

DividedQuantum said:
No, I think it's true. .... I think the personal narrative most people have, at least Americans, is so out of touch with anything reasonable that things like the American Dream become sacrosanct, when in fact such ideas are quite hollow and destructive.....


Indeed. In early tribal society it was obvious to everyone that they "sink or swim" together.
This tempered excessive ego. There was no place for an individual assuming excessive importance. With minimal possessions there was no wealth inequality, and no striving to get "to the top of the heap". Meditation was not necessary to temper ego. It was obvious to all that they were only a part of the world, and family.

Capitalism and Communism (as practiced in dictatorships) produce great wealth & power inequality. (Communism in Israeli Kibbutzim is another matter).

Between the hunter gatherer stage and civilization, there were settlements with chieftans where we see the beginnings of inequality, division of labor, and power accumulation.

With American consumer, corporate, capitalism, we have reached an extreme as you point out. Now there is an infatuation with "winning". Individual "winning".

All the great metaphors for life, from long ago, from wise mean are meant to temper this folly, and help us decrease the impulse to take everything personally & so seriously:
Life is a dream
All the worlds a stage
Life is a game
You can't take it with you
Life is a joke
Its all Maya

To any hunter gatherer all the social media, and texting would of course be a joke.
That people are now addicted to these things points to the hollowness you speak of,
and paradoxically both over population and at the same time a fear of intimacy & the knowledge of how to create it.

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Re: Success [Re: laughingdog]
    #25615118 -

Self image = 'Success'
                        Expectations

Everyone is looking for 'the next thing'.

My first mushroom trip,
I was frightened at first,
seeing my frantic self searching for
'the next thing.'
Until I realized,
that I could just sit, and be.


--------------------
Self image = Success
                        Expectations

Edited by Mondangle (11/14/18 07:17 PM)

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Re: Success [Re: Mondangle]
    #25615181 -

the switch from becoming to being

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Re: Success [Re: laughingdog]
    #25615197 -

Not even wisdom to attain!
Attainment too is emptiness.

There is no suffering, no accumulating, no extinction, and no Way,
and no understanding and no attaining.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+heart+sutra+text+in+english&t=h_&ia=web

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