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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: relic]
    #25598253 -

Glad i forgot to vote. Makes this House win that much more tastier :yesnod:

Why? Cause i put it the hands of the People :lol:

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid]
    #25598275 -

Zaid said:
Edit: Hell, even the legalization of gay marriage is a net negative as I see it. Sure it is great that we can have equal rights in domestic partnership but overall it is detrimental to the very concept of the family unit. Blah, blah, cultural marxism. Either way, when was the vote to legalize gay marriage? Oh, it was a supreme court decision? So the far-reaching, culture changing legislation is left to an appointed committee which no one really voted for? What an awesome democracy we have. :lol:


:saywhat: ever heard of prop 8. stop hating yourself and start hating your ignorance. if you are not a mentally deranged puppet of one of our more distinguished members i would be astounded. your persona is just too preposterous and illogically ironic to be true.


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Edited by ReposadoXochipilli (11/07/18 10:40 AM)

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #25598349 -

Quote:
ever heard of prop 8.


I totally forgot about how California always perfectly reflects the views of the rest of the United States. Thanks for reminding me. :hahathatsfunny:


--------------------
Wild Pleurotus Ostreatus - My First Grow Log!

For those of you who :pm:'d me about Paul Stamets silence on portabellos: bodhisatta graciously presents a real answer.

Edited by Zaid (11/07/18 11:18 AM)

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid]
    #25598359 -

Zaid said:
The very concept that there is no means to that end is, in my opinion, pathetic in and of itself.


FWIW Zaid, I do agree with you.

I don't, however, agree with the way you go about making your point. You belittle others (albeit very subtly, but it's absolutely there) who disagree with your 'progressive' POV, when the vast majority of us here recognise quite clearly this phase you're going through as one of the normal stages of growth and maturation in this world.

Of course you wanna kick back against it. The system is FUCKED. But it's what we've got, and nothing that you, or I, or even every member of this community together could do is gonna change that.

Eight billion on the planet. Most living on less than $2 a day. Do you have any concept of how many minds are adjusted to it being this way? Are you gonna change eight billion minds? Do you think the 80% care about your ideology when they can barely feed themselves?

I'm sure, at your current stage of maturity, it feels good to have a vent about it, but it's really tiring for those of us that have been there and moved on from it to see you flailing like this. You're not doing anything other than alienating your peers with these rants.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25598498 -

Quote:
The system is FUCKED. But it's what we've got, and nothing that you, or I, or even every member of this community together could do is gonna change that.


This is part of the problem. You always have control over your own life.

Quote:
Eight billion on the planet. Most living on less than $2 a day. Do you have any concept of how many minds are adjusted to it being this way? Are you gonna change eight billion minds? Do you think the 80% care about your ideology when they can barely feed themselves?


Who said anything about changing the world? The only thing I am really concerned about is the life that (hopefully) my genetics will live beyond my own life.

But, speaking on the $2 a day point... we are in an extremely privileged position and given an ungodly amount of resources throughout our lives as members of the first world. If anyone is in the position to make an impact on anything, we are the very small minority with the means and time to do it.


--------------------
Wild Pleurotus Ostreatus - My First Grow Log!

For those of you who :pm:'d me about Paul Stamets silence on portabellos: bodhisatta graciously presents a real answer.

Edited by Zaid (11/07/18 12:25 PM)

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid]
    #25598505 -

Zaid said:
Quote:
Remember kids, voting is how we systematically eliminate problems that,  in a perfect world,  never should have arisen to begin with. That is how we know the system is working. 






unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.  as such, we work to change that which needs changing.  one very tangible way we effect change is through voting.  See:  state cannabis laws, michigan

and THAT is how we know the system is working.

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid]
    #25598522 -

Zaid said:
Quote:
The system is FUCKED. But it's what we've got, and nothing that you, or I, or even every member of this community together could do is gonna change that.


This is part of the problem. You always have control over your own life.


Fuck me!!! You don't say?!?! My gosh, I had never thought about it like that!!

I guess all those years of meditation, staying at monasteries, reading, working on myself, learning to love fully, trying to be better person, etc were just due to the system dragging me in and I was never in control the whole time!!

Thank you so much for this epic revelation Zaid, you're an angel!! It's gonna change my life!!!!

(did somebody say you have a habit of being belittling? I never would have guessed..)


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: relic]
    #25598552 -

relic said:
unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.  as such, we work to change that which needs changing.  one very tangible way we effect change is through voting.  See:  state cannabis laws, michigan

and THAT is how we know the system is working.


Quote:
Cannabis reform only serves to prove that there is a problem with the system's stance on certain vegetation to begin with. Anyone unsubscribed to the powers that be should see that it is a non-solution to a non-issue.


The prohibition of cannabis arose in the United States out of simple racism and media hysteria. It was an obvious, targeted ploy. This caused the public to demonize a valuable plant used for generations before them purely out of ignorance. This demonization is partially how the laws managed to stay in place for as long as they did. Even after people wised up to the safety and benefits of cannabis (the majority of citizens growing up in the 1960s and later) the laws remained in place for almost 60 years afterwards and are still in place today federally.

This is all an appeasement to the outrage the war on drugs has caused and is only taking place on a state-by-state basis. At any point, federal agents can step in and shut the whole thing down. Cannabis will only become legal federally when their hand is forced. For God's sake, Canada and Mexico are moving things along quicker than the United States.

This is a piss-poor example of the system 'working'. It is so clearly an example of a systemic issue which is taking us nearly a full century to correct. Worse yet, it is only being corrected begrudgingly. If it takes us that long to fix an issue as simple and benign as cannabis usage (never mind the drug, industrial hemp even); how could you possibly call that a successful system? The whole thing has corporate interests written all over it.

-----

@Jokeshopbeard:
Never mind your feelings. If you already knew that than why would you be so pessimistic as to state otherwise?
Also, nothing I said was meant to be belittling and I am sorry you took it that way. But I think I see now why you think I am a troll. Stating simple facts that are a given obviously feels patronizing to you.


--------------------
Wild Pleurotus Ostreatus - My First Grow Log!

For those of you who :pm:'d me about Paul Stamets silence on portabellos: bodhisatta graciously presents a real answer.

Edited by Zaid (11/07/18 01:11 PM)

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid]
    #25598578 -

You ARE patronising Zaid.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid] * 1
    #25598581 -

Zaid said:
Quote:
ever heard of prop 8.


I totally forgot about how California always perfectly reflects the views of the rest of the United States. Thanks for reminding me. :hahathatsfunny:


if you don't see the relevance in it's role in gay marriage when at the time only Massachusetts allowed gay marriage is woefully naive as is being ignorant of California's cultural influence.


--------------------

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25598601 -

Quote:
if you don't see the relevance in it's role in gay marriage when at the time only Massachusetts allowed gay marriage is woefully naive as is being ignorant of California's cultural influence.


I am well aware of California's cultural influence on the rest of the United States. You are actually alluding to another systemic issue of outrage-based, virtue signaling controlled media. Thankfully, I see the internet making a good dent in it but I can definitely visually witness certain interest groups trying their hardest to grasp at control over the new mainstream internet platforms. (I.E. YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, etc.) Look no further than the YouTube trending/home page.



Edit: Incoming Donald Trump propaganda but I'm sure you have seen this before:



According to people who pour over his Twitter feed like the Holy Bible just 6 companies control 90% of the professionally produced media in the United States. In the 1980s that 90% market share was apparently shared by over 50+ different individual companies.

Edited by Zaid (11/07/18 01:27 PM)

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: XUL]
    #25598775 -

XUL said:
pineninja said:
You sure sound childish.

Who are you to worry about debating politics.
It makes no difference what an individual does or thinks....right.

Why are you so engaged?



Are you Zaid's daddy?


Is Zaid your puppet?


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid]
    #25598791 -

Zaid said:
relic said:
unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.  as such, we work to change that which needs changing.  one very tangible way we effect change is through voting.  See:  state cannabis laws, michigan

and THAT is how we know the system is working.


Quote:
Cannabis reform only serves to prove that there is a problem with the system's stance on certain vegetation to begin with. Anyone unsubscribed to the powers that be should see that it is a non-solution to a non-issue.




wrong.  it is a solution to a problem, the end.  i notice you like to spin very simple things into messes much larger than they really are.  i wonder why that is?  /rhetorical question

then we have ideas like "unsubscribed to the powers that be".  seriously?  how about you plainly state what you're getting at?  explain what a state of being unsubscribed to the powers that be looks like...in plain, simple, concise words and phrases. on second thought, strike all that.  i don't want to entertain fantasies in this forum.   


Zaid said:
The prohibition of cannabis arose in the United States out of simple racism and media hysteria.


close, but not quite.  racism was but a tool.  prohibition of cannabis was driven by greed, specifically the greed of billy hearst and lammot du pont. racism was just a shitty means to a shitty end.


i'm going to strike what's in the following quote box as it's an example of the superfluous junk i mentioned in another thread.  it serves no good purpose in this conversation; it's mental masturbation.  the obvious purpose it DOES serve is to let you look like an intellectual when really it's just, well, unnecessary bloat in the context of this discussion. 

 
Quote:
It was an obvious, targeted ploy. This caused the public to demonize a valuable plant used for generations before them purely out of ignorance. This demonization is partially how the laws managed to stay in place for as long as they did. Even after people wised up to the safety and benefits of cannabis (the majority of citizens growing up in the 1960s and later) the laws remained in place for almost 60 years afterwards and are still in place today federally.

This is all an appeasement to the outrage the war on drugs has caused and is only taking place on a state-by-state basis. At any point, federal agents can step in and shut the whole thing down. Cannabis will only become legal federally when their hand is forced. For God's sake, Canada and Mexico are moving things along quicker than the United States.



Zaid said:
This is a piss-poor example of the system 'working'. 


it's a very fine example in both its context and simplicity.

Zaid said:
It is so clearly an example of a systemic issue which is taking us nearly a full century to correct.


so your point is that it's taking a long time to correct so it isn't an example of the system working?  what is the length of time that signifies a system working whereas just a few minutes later it's not working?

Zaid said:
Worse yet, it is only being corrected begrudgingly. If it takes us that long to fix an issue as simple and benign as cannabis usage (never mind the drug, industrial hemp even); how could you possibly call that a successful system? The whole thing has corporate interests written all over it.



1.  how does a problem being fixed, regardless of you writing begrudgingly, qualify as "worse yet".  fixed problem = better yet
2.  big money, generational big money, never lends support to a modifier such as "benign".  what big money wants, big money gets and big money holds what it gets with a deathgrip.     
3.  it is an example of the system working because it shows how people have taken back power from the behemoth federal gov't and the deathgrip with which big money has kept cannabis illegal. the little guy winning is nearly always an example of a working system of checks, balances, and methods of correction.

Edited by relic (11/07/18 02:30 PM)

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: relic] * 2
    #25598808 -

ok, zaid, i'm done entertaining you and/or being trolled by you.  it's dumb of me to try to rationally discuss the irrational.  as such i've vomited enough dumb on these pages for now.

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: relic]
    #25598823 -

Zaid’s other thread made me lol


--------------------


Rate me here

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Citizen X]
    #25599005 -

Quote:
1. how does a problem being fixed, regardless of you writing begrudgingly, qualify as "worse yet".  fixed problem = better yet


I would hardly declare the problem 'fixed'. Better than >100 years ago is not better than when the entire system was founded. The government, as I see it, should always seek to be in a state of improvement to better defend the rights, freedoms and general welfare of its citizens as its citizens see fit. The whole reason this situation popped up in the first place (which it never should have been able to if the government is constantly seeking a state of improvement for its citizens) brings me into your next point...

Quote:
2. big money, generational big money, never lends support to a modifier such as "benign".  what big money wants, big money gets and big money holds what it gets with a deathgrip.


Now you are getting to what I view as the real meat of the issue. The United States government (especially but not exclusively) is in a constant state of being exploited from all angles (local and federal) by corporate interests.

Quote:
3. it is an example of the system working because it shows how people have taken back power from the behemoth federal gov't and the deathgrip with which big money has kept cannabis illegal. the little guy winning is nearly always an example of a working system of checks, balances, and methods of correction.


Mind you that the federal government has not changed its stance officially at all since prohibition of cannabis was first established but...

Because over the course of a century we have reclaimed a fraction of the power that was stolen from us in less than a decade, the system works? How can that possibly be the case when we are still at a net negative of overall freedom? Even with wide-spread legalization the legislation that will be put in place to regulate it after years of such hysteria is still a net negative of freedom to what we had before prohibition. I don't see much "taking back power", only that as much power as we will allow to be taken will be taken for as long as we allow it; which, simply, is a violation of public trust and the very checks and balances set forth to protect us. To me this has more to do with public outrage (and the appeasement of it to keep the current system in place) than it does with actual public interest. To take it a step further public outrage is sometimes even created with no factual basis in an attempt to change legislation like what happened with cannabis over a century ago.

It should also go without saying that corporations are doing everything they can to influence legalized cannabis legislation to their advantage as they do with everything. Just look at the initial proposed bill for medical marijuana in Ohio that didn't pass as an obvious example. Look at the one that did pass and the grading system that was used to award licenses to partake in the budding industry. The corruption is, to me, self evident.


--------------------
Wild Pleurotus Ostreatus - My First Grow Log!

For those of you who :pm:'d me about Paul Stamets silence on portabellos: bodhisatta graciously presents a real answer.

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid] * 1
    #25599936 -

Congratulations you've seen behind the screen.

We all now know what you are not going to do.

What are you going to do?

and don't say  nothing because you've already been doing something.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: Zaid]
    #25600031 -

Not voting is idiotic. People that discourage voting are idiots.

Even if your vote isn't going to influence the outcome of the election, just saying "fuck it, I won't vote because nothing matters" is obviously not the better option.

With voting, as with most things, trying and failing is generally going to get you further then not even trying in the first place.

That much at least is not debatable, so to suggest otherwise is pretty stupid.

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: waves]
    #25600040 -

Voting is kinda like applying for a job, asking a girl out, or doing anything else in life.

Your candidate may not win, you may get rejected, etc.

But if you don't even try, you definitely aren't going to get what you want.

By getting out and voting, or putting in a job application, or asking the girl out, you DO increase your chances of getting what you want.

That really is not debatable at all.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some of the drug addled dead beats on this site would have trouble understanding the concept of trying.

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Re: Thank you to all those that didn't follow Zaid's advice to not vote... (moved) [Re: waves]
    #25600050 -

Just to be clear, to suggest that voting doesn't matter, is ineffective, etc., is factually incorrect.

It is not a matter of opinion.

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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