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Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides?
    #24887451 -

I've read that, some research suggests that high-proof alcohol destroys the water-soluble polysaccharides, so it doesn’t make sense to use the tinctured and pressed mushrooms in the decoction (Hobbs, 1986).

Does anyone know how I can find out more about this?

If this is true it would make double extracts that use the same material pointless.

Thoughts?


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Re: Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides? [Re: Base Icks]
    #24887602 -

I am no chemist, but there is a chemistry forum here where you might ask.
That said my limited understanding is that polysaccharides are water soluble. Alcohol extracts contain triterpines. When mixed the polysaccharides precipitate out in the alcohol and this is important reason to thoroughly mix before taking. I would ask the . professionals their opinions.


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Re: Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides? [Re: Base Icks] * 1
    #24889146 -

I'm a chemist and have been working with high molecular weight bacterial polysaccharides for nearly thirty years. What I'll tell you is from that experience as I haven't done any research specific to fungal products.

A natural PS is not a unique entity rather molecules of varying molecular weight. Generally, the higher the MW the more biologically (immunologically) active they are. The high MW PS are generally in the range of 105 to 107 amu. That's 1,000 to 100,000 sugar units per molecule. They have no natural tertiary structure (shape) like proteins or DNA but are flexible and amorphous in solution. Their backbone structure is defined by the types of sugars, types of linkages between sugars and sequence of sugars. The linkages are generally linear but they can also have branches.

PS undergo a high degree of inter and intramolecular hydrogen bonding.Therefore they are less soluble in ethanol than water. The higher the ethanol concentration the less PS can be dissolved. Also, the higher the MW the less soluble the PS. This leads to a technique called fractional precipitation which allow one to easily isolate the higher MW PS. In this technique ethanol is added to an aqueous solution of PS. As the ethanol concentration increases it begins to dehydrate the polysaccharide and the HMW PS begins to precipitate first.

Other than this dehydration phenomenon, PS do not react with ethanol and so I don't see how it could 'destroy' the PS.  However PS, especially very high MW PS, are sensitive to frictional and even vibrational (thermal) shear force degradation whereby they simply become smaller (broken) which leads to the 'destruction' of biological activity. It may be the case that the introduction of a sufficiently anhydrous condition could eliminate enough hydrogen bonding to create a situation of high enough shear to degrade the PS.

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Re: Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides? [Re: Shu]
    #24893574 -

Very interesting Shu!

When doing double extraction is the alcoholic extraction usually done before or after the aqueous extraction? Because if you're worried about this you could of course first extract the polysaccharides so that your ethanol extraction couldn't really harm the PS since it is gone from the residue.

If the H-bonding is intramolecular though, wouldn't it be relatively independent of bonding with the water - or would it mean that anhydrous conditions mean more intramolecular H-bonding rather than intermolecular, causing more rigidity? It's a little surprising since ethanol is still polar and protic.


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    Re: Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides? [Re: Solipsis]
        #24893805 -

    Shu, thanks for the time and the info. It was all very interesting.

    Solipsis with double extracts the alcohol tends to be done first in order to aid in the breakdown of the mushroom material.


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    Re: Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides? [Re: Base Icks]
        #24893891 -

    Ah well it's probably not that easy to break down mushroom material but not disturb very large polysaccharides in the process.

    Shu, is there any method of lysis that you would suggest for fungal matter?


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    Re: Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides? [Re: Solipsis]
        #24894441 -

    It's probably best to stick with simple extractions of powdered materials.

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    Re: Alcohol extracts destroy polysaccharides? [Re: Shu]
        #24900427 -

    Thanks for this info Shu! I've never looked into extracting polysaccharides but since I am getting back into growing Reishi, Turkey Tail, and other species soon, I will definitely look for a good Tek on this.

    Your explanation of how the extractions work was pretty easy to read for a non-chemist like myself.:drugnerd:


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