Near Dylan said:

Do you believe that an extra-terrestial species has ever observed, visited, landed on, or  made contact with earth?

Spoiler alert: They haven't

Post your theory, and give some evidence if you can. Try not to make it an hour long documentary. If you have to do that, put timestamps for important information.

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Quote:

I’m not very keen on the whole abduction shtick.  I think that one of the symptoms of cultural disintegration is simply that people lose the ability to distinguish between dream and memory and that somehow one’s past, one’s real past and one’s dream past simply become one’s past.  Then under certain circumstances what was basically dream material is presented as reality.

Just because you have a nut theory, it doesn’t mean that you agree with other nut theories.  In fact, it often makes you very hostile to them.  After all there’s a limited pool there that we’re all…

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there is what I call linguistic viruses that infect the effort to communicate.  They’re very hard to catch at work.  It has to do with how can people believe things that are absurd.  It’s very interesting to spend time with people who believe something which is absurd.  A lot of people bring raps to me that they want confirmation or disconfirmation on and I passed this way last night when I talked about the rules of evidence.  The standard of discourse has decayed to the point where it’s very hard to get any kind of consensus about anything because most people participating don’t know how the game is played.  Linguistic viruses really are responsible for much more of reality than we suppose.  I suppose I can’t really talk about this without stepping on somebody’s toes so let me pick…for example, crop circles.

Crop circles are important and what was going on at the England end, these things were absurd.  You had only to see one to understand what was going on and to see that a confluence of British eccentricity, ripe grain, a certain ambiance the air was allowing these things to come into being.  And the media was fanning it into existence.  Well now how does this work?  Talking of coupled oscillators and Persinger and all that.  Pardon me?

[Audience] – Could you repeat that law?

Oh, the paranormal phenomenon has an impact in an inverse square relationship to the distance you are from the event.  You see?  Here’s how it works.  The media is reporting the onrushing phenomena of existence – stock markets, wars, diplomatic meetings, gangster killing, so forth and so on.  Then something weird happens, now I have a job, you have a job, and we note that something weird has happened but it doesn’t affect us.  But scattered through the society there are people who when they open their paper and see ‘Strange Pattern in Wheatfield near Wiltshire.’  They say, ‘ah ha – I knew it.  This is what we’ve been waiting for.  This is the sign.’  They jump in their card and they drive to Wiltshire to look at the crop circle and they get there first.  Well then comes the press and they say, ‘well what is this?’  The farmer doesn’t know and everybody standing around and finally the weird person takes courage and says ‘well actually I’ve been studying a peculiar form of biological energy for some thirty years and my theory…’ You’re off and running at that point.  So weirdness attracts weirdos who then interpret the weirdness very weirdly because they came with sharpened axes to grind, you see?

The crop circle thing was a test case for this.  This is why I spent so much time on it.  It did no credit to anybody.  The occult just went sailing over the edge and science didn’t behave any better.  If any of you are interested in this, there’s a wonderful book called Round in Circles by Jim Schnabel that goes into all this.  But anyway, there was a fellow named Terence Meaden who was a meteorologist and when the first crop circles appeared and the weirdos began talking about telluric forces, messages from Atlantis, so forth and so on – he jumped into the fray and said, ‘nonsense, nonsense!”  This is a meteorological phenomenon.  In the warm days of summer on the lee side of these certain kinds of hills, a kind of circular low-pressure wind can get going and this is nothing to get excited about and we’ve got the statistics.  The press loved him.  They loved him as much as the screwballs and they would put him on.  First they would interview the mad people and then Terence Meaden would come on and pooh-pooh it away.

So that was the first year of the crop circles.  The next year the crop circles became considerably more elaborate with arrows coming off of them and zigzags and so forth and so on.  Bring Terence Meaden onto the scene and he says, ‘well the new field of dynamic instability indicates that the mathematical solutions to these breakdown states are very complicated and unusual patterns…’ So then the next year, it was inconceivably complex, the crop circles.  Meanwhile, crop circle time is in the springtime.  It’s dead in the winter because the fields are empty, so Meaden had used the winter time to go to the Institute of Electrostatic Physics in Nagoya and came back full of talk about roving plasmic fields and this sort of thing.  Armed with the roving plasmic fields, no crop circle was too bizarre to not be proclaimed the product of natural forces.

This went on and on and finally BBC2 - and you can think about this what you like - but they made a crop circle in frustration with this whole thing.  They made a crop circle and among the crop circle cognoscenti, there are certain moves that are the favorite moves that are the authenticating moves that no human being could possibly do it.  So the BBC2 people made a very good crop circle and they brought Terence Meaden out and said, Terence we’ve just spotted one over here and we need to get you right to the scene before the tourists got there.’  They toured with him and he pointed out the distinguishing characteristics, no doubt about it.  Then they sat him down in the center of this field and said, Terence, we made it.

It’s a horrible thing actually to see a grown man cry.  He is devastated.  This is just one of many moments.  You know Rupert, my comrade in arms?  Rupert Sheldrake was one of the people who sponsored the contest that basically put the crop circles out of business because the claims were fantastic, you know?  No person could do this.  So what they did was they got farmers to donate ten acre tract of English corn, which is wheat, and for fifty pounds you could enter and everybody had to make the same crop circle, which was one chosen to have all the difficult little smiggies in it and you could use no lights, you had to go into the field at 10pm and be out by 4am and at dawn, the helicopters flew over with the video crews and the crop circles were toured on the ground and awards were made.

This guy, Jim Schnabel, who wrote this book I mentioned, by himself in total darkness, in two and a half hours, made the winning entry.  It was very close tie to him and a helicopter crew to a nearby airbase who also made one.  Yet, this is to some degree the point of the whole story, there are people whose eyes fill with tears when I do this rap because they haven’t heard.  It will never die now I’m convinced. It’s an informational virus loose in the world.  Crop circles will occasionally appear but it was really a breakout that was so predictable from the unconscious that it amazed me while it was going on how many friendships that were strained over this thing.

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I just don’t resonate with believers in anything.  I get insulting to Buddhists for God’s sake.  It’s just something about their smugness and their whole bit, I just want to squash it.  So you can imagine how I behave in the presence of scientologists and the rest of it.  Belief is again, it’s a form of infantilism.  There are no grounds for believing anything. The flying saucer thing, I went to this conference imagining that what I would meet would be a whole bunch of really interesting sincere people who wanted to discuss the phenomenon of unexplained things in the sky and contacting human beings.  What I found was booth after booth of people who had all the answers!  Learn how a nearby planet reduced crime by 500%!  I got news for you, not even God can reduce crime by 500% once you’ve reduced it by 100%; you’ve got it!

This was the quality of thinking that was going on.  Then there were a lot of really scary people in brown leather shoes with thin smiles and cheap suits who were clearly third rate, semi retired intelligence hacks who were there to keep the flock headed in the right direction.  People wanted to talk about experiments on human fetal tissue that go on in underground laboratories out in Arizona through the connivance of the CIA and the Pledian high command.  And you just think, I’ve just got to call my broker.  I’ll get back to you on that.  I don’t know.  It’s an aesthetic thing.  I believe that great weirdness stocks the universe.  That’s not the issue with me but it’s not tacky.  It is not tacky.  People who wear low cut gowns with a lot of sequins on them and tiaras and pass out flying saucer shaped business cards, that’s tacky.  So it can’t be so!  I know this.  I’ve never been wrong.  If intelligence fails, aesthetics will pull you through.  People don’t like this part of me.  I don’t make it comfortable for other squirrels.  I don’t share the branch very generously.

A place where I’ve gotten into lots of trouble is with the face on Mars.  I just have not got enough unpleasant things to say about the face on Mars, everybody connected with it, the whole idea.  Talk about something, which should never have been let out of the box – that’s it.  The idea of a chachka 17 x 11 miles in size just gives me the heebeegeebees.  I don’t want to know those aliens.  They should go back where they came from and take their chachka with them.  We need people who can build in light and balance planetary ecologies and do really cool things. Massive earth moving projects – we’ve been there, we’ve done that.

-terence mckenna

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Quote:

So, a few weeks ago I was meditating in my usual fashion, and I began to get this “new idea”, which was so weird that I immediately shifted into, “This is not the truth, this is not a transmission about the nature of reality. This is a plot for a science fiction novel that I should write!” I tried to hold that as my defence, that was my shield against the onslaught of this thing.

I’ve never been one for Atlantis, or Lemuria, all these invisible prehistoric lands and places that people enjoy so much, but I was told a very funny thing, which I will share with you. It’s a funny idea. Let’s see, how does it go? It has two versions, one of which speaks a scientific language, the other speaks a mythological language. So the scientific language goes something like this…

There’s something in the universe called a “Fractal Soliton of Improbability”. This means it’s a unique event, it only happens once in the lifetime of a universe. You can think of it as a wavelength with one wave; that’s why it’s called a soliton. These things move, not in ordinary three-dimensional space, but in some kind of much higher spatial manifold. And when they collide with a planet, or when one collides with a planet in a universe, the time-stream of that planet is divided, and two copies of that planet spring into existence, without either having any knowledge of it. It’s just something which happens. So, this voice was telling me that this had happened to the Earth, and that this was the secret that we were all striving to understand; that an event in the past had actually divided our time-stream, and that a twin of this planet had come into being in another dimension.

OK, so that’s the scientific explanation. So the mythological explanation was, that the universe is Gnostic. The universe is the creation of the Demiurge, not the highest expression of divinity, but a kind of demon, a fallen creature. This Demiurge was able to coax itself into being, actually incarnate into history as a human being. And when this happened, this was the mythological expression of the Fractal Soliton of Improbability. When it happened, the time-stream split. The time-splitting event had to do with the career of Christ, who was an extraordinary manifestation of energy in the historical time-stream; not to be confused with a Buddha or a Mohammed or a Zoroaster, who were great saints—this was something else. It was in some sense what it claimed to be—but in some sense.

So at the moment of—and you can choose either the Immaculate Conception or the Resurrection, depending on which side of the bed you got up on today—at that moment, the time-stream split, and this other place came into being, without having any awareness of it. They were identical at that moment, these two worlds.

What I forgot to say was, this event, the Fractal Soliton of Improbability, has this quantum-mechanical half-charge, so in one of the universes it happens, and in the other universe it doesn’t happen. So everything about these two worlds was the same, except in one of them the Immaculate Conception or the Resurrection had not taken place. Now, because Christ had no children, in the world in which he was absent, it was not a genetic line that was missing, it was an ideological line which never received expression. And consequently, as time passed, first decades, and then centuries, the absence of this particular intellectual influence in the world changed the world radically, in the following way: Greek science did not suffer the suppression that occurred with the conversion of Constantine; the Academies were not closed; the Hermetic knowledge was not repressed. Conversely, the Empire was stronger, and was able to repel the barbarian invasions of the 2nd to the 5th century, and mathematics, which had halted in our world at Diophantus, proceed through his disciple Hypatia to develop a calculus by AD 370. So that the millennium of Christian stasis that occurred in our world did not occur in that world.

As time passed, and engineering advances occurred, by around 850 they had ships that were able to cross the Atlantic Ocean. And they encountered the Mayan civilization reaching its fullest flower in Guatemala and in the Yucatan peninsula. In fact, in this vision I saw the Roman Emperor Cosmodorus the Fifth make a pilgrimage to Tikal in 920 to be present at the coronation of a king at the end of Baktun 8. Anyway, this Greco-Roman imperial culture immediately recognized the genius of the Mayans in mathematics and astronomy, and Europe was… transformed, into an amalgamation, a Greco-Mayan civilization, and this civilization continued to develop.

Now one of the influences which the Mayans brought into Europe around the year 950 was their extremely sophisticated psychopharmacopeia, and shamanism. And this mated with Neoplatonism and Hermeticism, so that rather than science developing as it developed in our world, a kind of magical, psychopharmacolytic technology of thought and understanding was what was developed over the centuries. And in later centuries, centuries before it happened in our world, they contacted the Orient, and the dynastic influence of the Sung poured itself into the creation of a global civilization. Such that, by around 1200 AD they were able to land on the moon, and create a cybernetic global civilization similar to the kind we have now.

They continued evolving, with all this psychotronic and shamanically-derived… well, by now you can imagine it was an unbelievably exotic and alien civilization compared to our own. The fruits of their psychedelic and psychoanalytic investigations into higher space was the discovery of our world. They found out what had happened. They figured it out, by studying dreams, and by making deep journeys into the psychedelic space, they were able to discover our sleeping unconscious, with its repository of the legacy of the Christian centuries under the reign of this Demiurgic ideology. And they conceived of the notion of saving us. And it has to do with this whole thing about the UFOs, and influencing dreams, and astral travelling… and the Other Side is actually the manifestation of this bizarre Greco-Mayan, postmodern star-faring civilization, trying to reach across the dimensions to save us from the momentum of our history, by making us aware of, first of all their existence, and also their technology, which is evolving toward a point where I think around the Mayan millennium, around 2012, we will flow past the time island, and the two time-streams will be rejoined. And we will make peace with this civilization that is now a thousand years more advanced than us, with this totally different cultural history, and this completely different take on reality.

So, this came to me in the space of about fifteen seconds…

[A discussion ends in a question about our destructiveness to plant ecologies versus what might have happened in the other world…]

They were developing and exploring technical options many hundreds of years ago, and they discovered the theoretics for nuclear fusion and fission, but they never used it. Until a few hundred years later, one of their great theoreticians—this was after they had discovered our time-stream—made the prediction that the physics of atomic explosions were such that they would cross the time-stream. And so they performed an experiment by detonating an atomic device in what is our year 1907. And this was the Tunguska event! And then, by monitoring the dreams of Siberian shamans, which they had in clear focus, they saw, “Aha! This explosion which we set off actually did occur in both time-streams.” And at that point, they became very interested in monitoring our time-stream, because they were picking up the dreams of a Swiss telegraph worker, who seemed to be pushing toward an unimaginable conclusion… So now there is a certain amount of urgency, because if we explode our atomic stockpiles, it will wreck the place that they call Home World. It’s not self-preservation, because they now have starflight, and encompass many systems, but preservation of Home World, which on the other side is a vast botanical and ecological preserve from pole to pole. It’s a sacred site of pilgrimage; it’s the home of the species, the Earth. And the notion that suddenly great parts of it will be blown apart by leakage from hyperspace of one of our atomic wars is impelling them now to attempt to open the doorway, and re-join the time-streams. We’ll be allowed a few years inside the botanical park to acclimate, and then most people will ship off for the stars, I imagine.

-terence McKenna

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Near Dylan said:

Bob Lazar is a fucking nutjob. You think if he was actually releasing the most top secret information in human history he would still be able to just walk around with no interference? Edward Snowden is hiding in fucking russia and the US is STILL trying to get him, and NSA shit is childs play compared to UFOs.
Earlier in this thread you mentioned a guy was "murdered" because he "spoke too much about UFOs". Oh but they didnt see Bob Lazar, a supposed whistle blower for the most top secret UFO operations in history, as a threat to security. Nah just let him keep giving out the information he was legally sworn to keep secret. Oh but that dude with a UFO blog? Yeah fucking murder him in his home.

Bob Lazar is not releasing top secret info. Bob Lazar is crazy, a liar, or both. Stop trying so hard to believe UFOs came here. They did not. There is no evidence. At least not evidence that wasn't conjured out of thin air, or based off of fucking lights in the sky.

All of the stories on that  website you linked could be easily explained with a million other much more reasonable things than "aliens are here, mannn, theyre watchin us mannn"
I honestly cannot believe the suggestibility of some people.

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LogicaL Chaos said:

And how is Bob Lazar a nut job? Show me how he is crazy, provide some evidence.

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