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Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?)
    #24210683 -

http://www.4pt.su/

In today's world, the impression is growing that politics has ended – at least the politics that we used to know.  Liberalism stubbornly fought it out with its political enemies, which had offered alternative recipes – with conservatism, monarchism, traditionalism, fascism, socialism, and communism – and, finally, at the end of the 20th century, it beat them all.  It would have been logical to surmise that politics would become liberal, while all of liberalism's opponents, having turned up on the periphery, would begin to rethink strategies and to form a new front: the periphery against the centre (Alain de Benoist).  But at the beginning of the 21st century everything followed a different script.

Liberalism, having always insisted upon the minimization of the political, decided after its victory to countermand politics altogether, possibly in order not to allow formation of political alternatives and to make its rule eternal, or from the completion of the political discussions of the day due to the lack of enemies, who are necessary, according to Carl Schmitt, for the proper constitution of a political position.  In any case, liberalism drove the matter to the wrapping up of politics.  At the same time it itself changed, having moved on from the level of ideas, political programs and declarations and entered into the very make-up of social reality, which became liberal, not in a political but in a natural, every-day manner.  As a consequence of such a turn of history, all the political ideologies that feuded passionately with one another over the last century lost their currency.  Conservatism, fascism and communism, together with their secondary variations, lost; but liberalism, having won, quickly mutated into a way of life: consumerism, individualism, and a post-modern style of fragmented and sub-political being.  Politics became bio-politics, redeployed on an individual and sub-individual level.  It turns out that not only the defeated political ideologies but politics as such left the scene – including the liberal variant.  For that reason, the formulation of alternatives is proliferating.  Those who do not agree with liberalism found themselves in a difficult situation: the victorious enemy dissolved and disappeared; they're fighting with the air.  How, then, is one to engage in politics, when politics is no longer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

does anyone still think Russia is an ally, and a cold war is unlikely?

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24211161 -

He's an interesting guy. I've only watched him speak on youtube and never actually read his books, but one thing I remember him saying which I think is important is the danger posed by neoliberal globalism in regards to all kinds of true diversity in the world. Liberals tend to value quantity over quality and the universal over the local, the dream being a world of complete equality, with no distinction between countries, racial types, genders etc - basically John Lennon's Imagine come to life, a mass global market with no culture and no identity, which is at odds with every unique tradition and people on the planet. He stresses the need to see the "other" as something valuable, without feeling like we have to impose our own identity on it - the idea being that we don't need to all be the same in order to respect each other, and that mutual understanding comes from accepting the differences between people, not by trying to eliminate them in the name of equality. The pursuit of international egalitarianism has resulted in an identity crisis for many people which is probably one of the biggest factors in the reactionary "rise of the far-right" being discussed elsewhere.

This quote from Roger Scruton is somewhat related:
Quote:
An international socialism is the stated ideal of most socialists; an international liberalism is the unstated tendency of the liberal. To neither system is it thinkable that men live, not by universal aspirations but by local attachments; not by a “solidarity” that stretches across the globe from end to end, but by obligations that are understood in terms which separate men from most of their fellows—in terms such as national history, religion, language, and the customs that provide the basis of legitimacy.


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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: tHEfLY] * 1
    #24211402 -

you realize that the same terms can be applied to "conservative" "tribal primitivist" "libertarian", ect ect, though, right?

i mean, you do realize that conservatives also have a stated ideal of international conservatism, and primitivism, international primitivism...right?

because i hate it when people seem to forget their own motivations beyond simply pointing to their enemies as a problem.

no system, overall, runs the world, nor is right for the entirety of it.

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24211652 -

Yeah it's annoying when people blame everything on one vague category like "liberals", or whatever it is, that wasn't my intention. It's also annoying when people respond to any criticism with "muh both sides are the same!"
International conservatism, which I've never heard anyone advocate, would basically mean every culture retaining it's own way of life. I don't see how that compares to what I was talking about. I also don't see how anyone can deny liberal hegemony in the west when people are constantly bringing up "our liberal western values" etc. It's true that capitalism definitely has an international agenda the same as socialism, but it uses liberal rhetoric to get past any cultural objections local people might have to being exploited.

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: tHEfLY]
    #24211787 -

Quote:
International conservatism, which I've never heard anyone advocate, would basically mean every culture retaining it's own way of life. I don't see how that compares to what I was talking about.


not exactly. it'd also entail that one's culture must retain itself over all else. which also leads to war, famine, and pestilence of thought. the notion that everyone should "be conservative, because it is just about retaining your culture" is surely promulgated, and this is leading people to paleo-conservatism, and onto primitivism (which is all also promulgated to 'the world at large' as the preferred option) which then leads to barbarism being heralded over civilization- being that every nation needs be somewhat interconnected (concerning trade) in order to be maintained economically, and to have as much power (and thus hope) as the other nations outside of it.

then it devolves into a "who is the best, who deserves more power than the rest, who is the ruler" ect....

Roman's were extremely conservative. so are Muslims. so are Jews. so were the Mongol hordes. ect.

what about this?

Quote:
It's true that capitalism definitely has an international agenda the same as socialism, but it uses liberal rhetoric to get past any cultural objections local people might have to being exploited.


in the west?

in the west, conservatism is republicanism; and republicanism, first and foremost, in the west, is liberalism. so it's no wonder liberal rhetoric gets used.

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #24212117 -

I don't think anyone is suggesting everyone should be conservative. Give people the option of being governed according to their own nature and if they choose to embrace liberal values then great, whatever. Just don't act like it should be the international standard for all humanity like the EU does when it threatens countries with fines for misbehaving. I'm not interested in defending any kind of international order, clearly every system is going to have its own set of problems, the reason I find Dugin interesting is that he exposes some massive blind-spots in the way we look at other cultures, mainly the idea that we are somehow helping them by making them more like us.

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24214123 -

Wow, what an amazing quote. I'm going to have to look into this guy.

With regards to: It's true that capitalism definitely has an international agenda the same as socialism, but it uses liberal rhetoric to get past any cultural objections local people might have to being exploited.


He is wrong on multiple levels here.

1. socialism is largely a protectionist political system that does not require trade, at least not in the same way that capitalism does.

2. local cultures can feed into capitalism relatively easy. capitalism is all about creating identities that can be marketed to, and cultural identities are no exception.


However, I like the way he alludes to there seemingly being no way out of capitalism, which is the current political paradigm.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: blingbling]
    #24214144 -

Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin (Russian: Алекса́ндр Ге́льевич Ду́гин; born 7 January 1962) is a Russian political scientist known for his fascist views who calls to hasten the "end of times" with all out war. - wiki

Yeah, if that's true he is a moron. I wonder if he wants to get in the trenches and choke on mustard gas, or whether he just wants everyone elses sons and daughters to do it for him.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: blingbling]
    #24214153 -

he wants everyone else to do it, because he's too smart to follow-through with any of what he plans for the rest of us.

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Re: Fourth Political Theory (what do you think of Aleksandr Dugin?) [Re: blingbling]
    #24214201 -

blingbling said:
Wow, what an amazing quote. I'm going to have to look into this guy.

With regards to: It's true that capitalism definitely has an international agenda the same as socialism, but it uses liberal rhetoric to get past any cultural objections local people might have to being exploited.


He is wrong on multiple levels here.

1. socialism is largely a protectionist political system that does not require trade, at least not in the same way that capitalism does.

2. local cultures can feed into capitalism relatively easy. capitalism is all about creating identities that can be marketed to, and cultural identities are no exception.


However, I like the way he alludes to there seemingly being no way out of capitalism, which is the current political paradigm.


Well there are more conservative types of socialism, like National Socialism, but in most cases the rhetoric relies on the ideal of international brotherhood and a humanist approach to cultural matters. I mean, the socialist anthem is "The Internationale" and one of the most common reasons given for failures in socialism is that there are still countries that aren't socialist.

And yes capitalism does sell identities, to do that it needs people who feel like they don't already have one, so it thrives on extreme individualism. People who feel at home in a community with real ties to their neighbours and to the land would have less need to "express their individuality" with consumer products.

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