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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] * 2
    #23862883 - 11/24/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The problem with coal is that even if everything goes right it still causes a disaster of epic proportions in the end.


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] * 3
    #23862891 - 11/24/16 08:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

for every death caused by nuclear, about 4000 people die from coal--i would say the argument that nuclear has the possibility to be very bad is moot when compared to the observation that coal currently is very bad

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-a-price-always-paid/#2ad1c80649d2


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #23864730 - 11/24/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's absurd, the possibility of calamity is too serious to be worth the risk. However you want to twist things around, nuclear power is playing Russian roulette with the ecosystem.

Coal and oil are worse because the problem is well on its way and guaranteed, but that doesn't make Russian roulette a reasonable alternative.


Clean / safe energy or bust, people are more worried about jobs and petty conveniences than the future of life on this planet.
The space programs are a long way from saving us, we're not investing shit in that and resources we need to continue building things like computers are finite.

We're stuck here, the next few generations will face the consequences of this societies short-sightedness, its a question at this point how many more generations there will even be.


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InvisiblePutin
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23864737 - 11/24/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The google graduates sure do have such opinions.


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23864855 - 11/24/16 10:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Risks from reactor accidents are estimated by the rapidly developing science of "probabilistic risk analysis" (PRA). A PRA must be done separately for each power plant (at a cost of $5 million) but we give typical results here: A fuel melt-down might be expected once in 20,000 years of reactor operation. In 2 out of 3 melt-downs there would be no deaths, in 1 out of 5 there would be over 1000 deaths, and in 1 out of 100,000 there would be 50,000 deaths. The average for all meltdowns would be 400 deaths. Since air pollution from coal burning is estimated to be causing 10,000 deaths per year, there would have to be 25 melt-downs each year for nuclear power to be as dangerous as coal burning.



http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/np-risk.htm



And hey, from what I hear, Chernobyl is basically Europe's largest nature reserve these days.



Although, I do agree that the opportunity for nuclear fission has passed. It's unfortunate that it was never really given a chance, though. Despite the higher profile of a nuclear meltdown over air pollution, I feel it would have left the environment in a better place today.

Now, I believe in solar and maybe one day nuclear fusion as the way of the future. Not as stoked on hydroelectric operations though.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #23864868 - 11/24/16 10:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Those estimates aren't taking in events like bombing raids and terrorism.

I'm more worried about people deliberately using nuclear power plants as weapons, than there being accidental releases.
The gloves are only on now because the world is dominated by one power, during the world wars there were no limits, cities were carpet bombed, chemical weapons used, nuclear...


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89] * 1
    #23864973 - 11/24/16 11:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

there would have to be 25 melt-downs each year for nuclear power to be as dangerous as coal burning.

Even if we had a particularly bad year with nuclear plants being bombed left and right, I don't think we would approach coals death rate. But I think we would see widespread devastation, regardless, if WW3 hits. You don't think the Hoover Dam poses a similar hazard?

Anyways, you are talking about worse case scenarios when it comes to nuclear, I'm talking about the standard operating procedure for coal. I think there's a qualitative difference.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #23864994 - 11/24/16 11:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The problem nuclear meltdowns presents is the difficulty of containment, eventually as more melt down they go from isolated regional incidents to accumulative global problem.

I'm not comparing cyanide to rattlesnake venom, coal being more dangerous doesn't say anything about nuclear power.
We could have invested trillions into clean energy by now, if we started when we first learned the dangers of coal.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89] * 3
    #23865069 - 11/25/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #23865550 - 11/25/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?






I took that quote as him referring to the cops and militarized security people.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
    #23865558 - 11/25/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It says “Most civilians" meaning he sees the average person walking around as a gutless worm because they werent trained to kill people or fight in the military or something.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89] * 1
    #23865601 - 11/25/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Clean / safe energy or bust, people are more worried about jobs and petty conveniences than the future of life on this planet.
The space programs are a long way from saving us, we're not investing shit in that and resources we need to continue building things like computers are finite.





according the the article that shiva posted, nuclear is clean and safe


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #23865646 - 11/25/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:

As much as I don't like military it's nice to see this. I heard the protesters where being sprayed down with water hoses, in North Dakota that could be a death sentence.




Even if nobody dies, that's practically torture except that they aren't trying to extract information.




By definition it is terrorism.




Nope, terrorism is what the protesters are doing, "harassing people going to work, starting fires and throwing Molotov cocktails, threatening the press"

***yeah, the DAPL protestors are terrorizing innocent people, how NOBLE of them :rolleyes:





Did you read the OP?

Quote:

posted by OP:

For the Standing Rock Sioux, the Dakota Access project poses two immediate threats. First, the pipeline would run beneath Lake Oahe, the reservoir that provides drinking water to the people of Standing Rock. (An earlier route that avoided native lands was ruled out in part because it posed a danger to drinking water.) Second, according to the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, the building of the pipeline would destroy the sacred spots and burial grounds that were overlooked in the Corps’ assessment.




People have the responsibility to protect their land, homes, and families. If their water supply is destroyed then the people will die off. Under these circumstances murdering the invasion force is fully justified. I'd sympathize with these Sioux even if they began killing off these invaders (workers). And these people have been through this kind of genocidal terrorism before and its indelibly burned into their racial memory how the near extinction of the buffalo destroyed the vast majority their recent ancestors. The Sioux way of life is worth fighting for. Its forth killing for and its worth dieing for. And I for one hope they prevail over the evil intentions of their enemies.




And now the real story

The original route for the pipeline was planned to run across the reservation, all natives were fine with that, the price offered was 10 million, the natives counter offered with 50 million to allow it, DAPL offered 20 million, the natives rejected that and demanded the 50 million. DAPL said fuck you then, "well go around the Rez"

***fast forward a few months and we have this :shrug:


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse] * 6
    #23865657 - 11/25/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Actually the original route was going to go near the city of Bismarck but the citizens and city officials would not allow  it due to *drum roll please*

The potential threat to the cities DRINKING WATER. 

:elmo:

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/pipeline-route-plan-first-called-for-crossing-north-of-bismarck/article_64d053e4-8a1a-5198-a1dd-498d386c933c.html


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #23865786 - 11/25/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?




I caught that, and being at the beginning of the article I didn't really give the rest of what it said much credence.  He thinks I'm a gutless worm for being a civilian?  I think he's a self-aggrandizing asshole for putting himself on a pedestal.  Got more out of the thread title than I did the article.  That guy can eat shit.


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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #23865817 - 11/25/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?




Yeah that was blatantly stupid. It's civilians who are out there right now holding the line. If he really thinks that then he should just stay home and play checkers with himself, because who wants to hang out with gutless worms?

Anyhow, his idea is still a good one and might really draw some much needed attention to the crisis in ND. Even if he is an asshole with an overblown ego, getting 500 veterans in full regalia and protective gear to try and walk through the riot gear police to finally surround the pipeline is a bold statement. Furthermore, I think that veterans are probably the most prepared, mentally, to actually undergo something like that. They are going to put themselves in an incredibly dangerous situation.


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #23865841 - 11/25/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

“Most civilians who’ve never served in a uniform are gutless worms who’ve never been in a fight in their life,” Wes Clark Jr. declares. “So if we don’t stop it, who will?”






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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #23865845 - 11/25/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I agree the statement is needlessly incendiary and combative.

HOWEVER -

Quote:

“So if we don’t stop it, who will?”




^this is very true.

It's a really nice sentiment to have so many non-indigenous actors, healers, musicians, and other activists heading to Standing Rock in solidarity, but these veterans can be of aid on the front line in ways that MOST civilians simply cannot.

:shrug:


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
    #23865851 - 11/25/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well, here come His Holiness to save the day for the lowly, helpless civilian worms.  All praise Wes Clark Jr!  All Heil!  It wouldn't have anything to do with getting his name in the news to jumpstart a political or entertainment career.


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: abltsandwich]
    #23865873 - 11/25/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, WHAT an asshole. :rolleyes:


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