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yogabunny
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Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline 10
#23856484 - 11/22/16 08:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.businessinsider.com/veterans-deployment-standing-rock-protest-2016-11
“Most civilians who’ve never served in a uniform are gutless worms who’ve never been in a fight in their life,” Wes Clark Jr. declares. “So if we don’t stop it, who will?”
Clark Jr. is one of the most vociferous opponents of the Dakota Access Pipeline, a controversial 1,170-mile project that, if and when it is completed, will shuttle an estimated 470,000 barrels of crude oil every day from North Dakota to Illinois. “It’s immoral, and wrong, and dangerous to us all,” Clark Jr. adds.
He doesn’t fit the traditional tree-hugger mold. He’s not a hippie. Nor is he a member of the Lakota or Dakota tribes, the two Native American group known collectively as the Sioux. He’s a former Army officer and the organizer of an upcoming three-day deployment of U.S. military veterans to the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation in southern North Dakota, the site of an escalating months-long standoff between law enforcement-backed security contractors and activists that has so far resulted in multiple injuries, more than 500 arrests, and a United Nations investigation of potential human rights abuses.
According to an “operations order” for the planned engagement, posted to social media in mid-November, “First Americans have served in the Unites States Military, defending the soil of our homelands, at a greater percentage than any other group of Americans. There is no other people more deserving of veteran support.”
Clark Jr. is a 47-year-old writer, political commentator, and activist based in California. Joining him in the fight is Michael A. Wood Jr., a Marine Corps veteran and former Baltimore police officer who retired his badge in 2014 to become an advocate for national police reform. Earlier this month, the duo formed Veterans Stand For Standing Rock with the hope of drawing scores of veterans, as well as fire fighters, ex-law enforcement officers, emergency medical personnel and others to the battleground for a three-day “deployment” in early December to “prevent progress on the Dakota Access Pipeline and draw national attention to the human rights warriors of the Sioux tribes.” Both men say they’re prepared to take a bullet, rubber or otherwise, for a cause they believe should be of critical importance to any patriotic American.
“This country is repressing our people,” Wood Jr. says. “If we’re going to be heroes, if we’re really going to be those veterans that this country praises, well, then we need to do the things that we actually said we’re going to do when we took the oath to defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic.”
The Standing Rock Sioux Reservation was originally established as part of the Great Sioux Reservation under Article 2 of the Treaty of Fort Laramie of April 29, 1868. In 1877, the U.S. government initiated the still ongoing process of chipping away and dividing the land it had granted to the people of the Lakota and Dakota nations, with significant reductions taking place in 1889 and then again during the 1950s and 1960s, when the Army Corps of Engineers built five large dams along the Missouri River, uprooting villages and sinking 200,000 acres of land below water.
When the Corps of Engineers returned to Standing Rock in 2015, it was to assess whether or not it should approve a path for the Dakota Access Pipeline across the Missouri River, a project that would involve construction on some of the land that had been stripped from the Sioux, who still regard it as sacred — although, that fact seems to have been ignored, maybe even intentionally, in the assessment.
Because the Corps neglected to consult the Standing Rock Sioux, as it was required to do under the National Historic Preservation Act (Section 106), the Environmental Protection Agency, the U.S. Department of Interior, and the American Council on Historic Preservation all criticized the assessment, but the project was eventually approved. The decision was a major victory for Energy Transfer Partners, the Texas-based parent company of Dakota Access LLC, which estimates the pipeline will bring $156 million in sales and income taxes to state and local governments and create thousands of temporary jobs.
For the Standing Rock Sioux, the Dakota Access project poses two immediate threats. First, the pipeline would run beneath Lake Oahe, the reservoir that provides drinking water to the people of Standing Rock. (An earlier route that avoided native lands was ruled out in part because it posed a danger to drinking water.) Second, according to the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, the building of the pipeline would destroy the sacred spots and burial grounds that were overlooked in the Corps’ assessment.
But as the protests have intensified, and more outsiders, including members of more than 200 Native American tribes from across the North America, have become involved, Standing Rock has, for some, come to represent something much bigger than a struggle between a disenfranchised people and a government-backed, billion-dollar corporation. It’s a battle to save humanity from itself.
“Mother Earth’s axis is off and it’s never going back,” says Phyllis Young, a Sioux tribal elder. “And we have to help keep it in balance for as long as we can. I am a mother and a grandmother. Those are my credentials to ensure a future with clean drinking water — a future of human dignity, human rights, and human survival.”
Young grew up on the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation. She has been present at many of the protests and says she’s seen people brutalized at the hands of the security contractors and law enforcement officials guarding the land where the drilling is set to take place. It was Young who got Clark Jr involved. In late summer, she was in Washington, D.C., lobbying for the military to promote an alternative (and scientifically dubious) clean energy source called low-energy nuclear reaction, when she heard of a military veteran who was a forceful advocate for environmental conservation. Clark Jr. was eager to help.
He spent weeks trying to assemble a legal team for the Standing Rock Sioux, and even contacted Independent Diplomat, a nonprofit organization that helps governments navigate complex diplomatic processes. “I pulled all of the levers, and none of them worked,” Clark Jr. recalls. Then, in early November, the plan dawned on him: He’d bring his fellow veterans. Lots of them. And they’d come prepared to put their lives on the line.
“We’re not going out there to get in a fight with anyone,” Clark Jr. says. “They can feel free to beat us up, but we’re 100% nonviolence.”
You may have heard of Clark Jr.’s father. Wesley Clark Sr. retired from the Army in 2000 as a four-star general. His career began in the jungles of Vietnam, where he was shot four timesduring an enemy ambush near Saigon, and culminated in a posting as Supreme Allied Commander Europe during the Kosovo War. In 2004, he ran for the Democratic Party presidential nomination on platform that criticized the Iraq War and called for measures to combat climate change. Clark Jr., who was born in Florida while Clark Sr. was in Vietnam and grew up on military bases throughout the United States and Europe, seems to have inherited both his father’s commanding spirit and his progressive ideals.
Clark Jr. had just graduated from Georgetown’s School of Foreign Service when he joined the Army as a cavalry officer. He served on active duty from 1992–1996 — “nothing dangerous,” he says. On Sept. 11, 2001, he was living in New York City, and after seeing the towers fall, he decided to re-enlist. “I was like, ‘I’m going back in. I’m going to go in there and fuck people up,’” he recalls.
It was Clark Sr., the decorated war hero, who convinced him not to. As Clark Jr. recalls, his father foresaw U.S. military intervention in Iraq and warned that as a soldier he would be fighting a war that had nothing to do with defeating al Qaeda. “He was right, but I’ll tell you, I’ve never felt worse about a decision in my life,” Clark Jr. says.
Clark Jr. may never have served in combat, but when he talks about Standing Rock, he sounds like a battle-hardened general. This isn’t his first foray into boots-on-the-ground environmental activism. He’s currently working with an organization called Climate Mobilization, which is focused on “building and supporting a social movement that causes the US federal government to commence WWII-scale climate mobilization.”
But he’s perhaps best known as a co-host of the political web series The Young Turks. On the The Young Turks website, Clark Jr. is described as an Army veteran “currently trying to save human civilization from climate change.” The impending confrontation at Standing Rock, he says, will be “the most important event up to this time in human history.”
Vets Standing For Standing Rock was announced via an official sounding letter formatted like a five-paragraph military operation order, breaking down the “opposing forces” — “Morton County Sheriff’s office combined with multiple state police agencies and private security contractors” — “Mission,” “Execution” and “Logistics,” among other things. A packing list virtually mirrors the ones issued to soldiers preparing to deploy to the field (minus the weapons). But there are also parts of the document that read like a revolutionary manifesto.
Under the section titled “Friendly Forces,” for example, the op order states, “we are there to put our bodies on the line, no matter the physical cost, in complete nonviolence to provide a clear representation to all Americans of where evil resides.”The document was accompanied by a link to a GoFundMe campaign that has raised nearly $20,000 of its $100,000 goal since it was created on Nov. 11. The money, Clark Jr. says, will only be used for helping volunteers with transportation costs and then bailing those who are arrested out of jail.
Wood Jr. says the op-order was Clark Jr.’s idea, but the two men agree that organizing like a military unit is the smartest approach, especially because most of the people expected to join them on the ground have served.
“It’s simple and we have clearly defined goals, so people don’t get caught up in the confusion,” says Wood Jr., who served with the Baltimore Police Department for more than a decade. “One of the issues the police are going to face is that our level of planning and coordination is vastly superior to theirs, so they may end up with a problem when it comes to that.”
Here then is the plan: On Dec. 4, Clark Jr. and Wood Jr., along with a group of veterans and other folks in the “bravery business,” as Wood Jr. puts it — 500 total is the goal, but they’re hoping for more — will muster at Standing Rock. The following morning they will join members of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, including Young, for a traditional healing ceremony. With an eye toward the media, old military uniforms will be donned so that if the veterans are brutalized by the police, they are brutalized not as ordinary citizens, but as people who once served the government they are protesting against.
Then body armor, ear plugs, and gas masks will be issued to those who didn’t bring their own. Bagpipes will play, and traditional Sioux war songs will be sung. The music will continue as everyone marches together to the banks of the Missouri, on the other side of which a line of guards in riot gear will be standing ready with rifles, mace, batons, and dogs. Then, the veterans and their allies — or at least the ones who are brave enough — will lock arms and cross the river in a “massive line” for their “first encounter” with the “opposing forces.”
The goal is to make it to the drilling pad and surround it, arm in arm. That will require making it through the line of guards, who have repelled other such attempts with a level of physical force Sioux tribal members and protesters have described as “excessive” — claims that recently prompted a United Nations investigation. Of course, that’s what the body armor and gas masks are for.
“We’ll have those people who will recognize that they’re not willing to take a bullet, and those who recognize that they are,” says Wood Jr. “It’s okay if some of them step back, but Wes and I have no intention of doing so.”
Of course, as most veterans know full well, even the best plans go out the window the moment the shit hits the fan. It seems probable that the group will be met by fierce resistance from those charged with keeping people out of the construction site. Despite a recent decision by the Corps of Engineers to delay further work on the pipeline, Energy Transfer Partners is still hoping to complete the project by January.
The segment that will cross beneath the Missouri at Standing Rock is the last major piece of the puzzle. Strengthening the resolve of the company’s executives is the fact that Energy Transfer Partners CEO Kelcy Warren donated more than $100,000 to elect Donald Trump, and Trump himself owns stock in the company. “I’m 100% sure that the pipeline will be approved by a Trump administration,” Warren told NBC News on Nov. 12.
Nonetheless, Clark Jr. and Wood Jr. remain undeterred. If anything, the likelihood of approval only makes them more determined. After all, this is war.
“The Joint Chiefs of Staff labeled the climate emergency as the number one security threat to the country, and they’ve been labeling it that for years,” Clark Jr. says. “All you need to do is put an overlay on any map in the world where there’s a water and crisis and you’re going to see massive political violence in that location. And unless we act, we’re going to be dealing with that exact same situation right here in the United States.”
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 3
#23856517 - 11/22/16 08:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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As much as I don't like military it's nice to see this. I heard the protesters where being sprayed down with water hoses, in North Dakota that could be a death sentence.
Wondering if some worn veterans get ill if it will say something. At least cops will have to look at them as they spray them.
Gonna go fill up the car with gas, go the store where all the food was shipped using gasoline and closely guard my loveydovey mind frame while making apple pie
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: filthyknees] 2
#23856625 - 11/22/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is nice to see they will have support from some people who are actually qualified to offer it. I donated $25 to their gofundme.
I am planning to trade in my vehicle to go electric as soon as humanly possible.
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Morel Guy
Stranger


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23856699 - 11/22/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't own a car. Living in town is nice so I can walk anywhere. As much as I would love to live in the sticks. My house uses natural gas. All in all I have a very small carbon footprint. I fill my recycling and have hardly any trash.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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5150
phantom

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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy]
#23857548 - 11/22/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The water canons in cold temps is fucked up Some protesters will most likely die at some point Rubber bullet to the temple or windpipe harsh times
-------------------- "the way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death" Miyamoto Musashi
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WackyWizard
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: filthyknees] 1
#23857779 - 11/22/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
filthyknees said: As much as I don't like military it's nice to see this. I heard the protesters where being sprayed down with water hoses, in North Dakota that could be a death sentence.
Even if nobody dies, that's practically torture except that they aren't trying to extract information.
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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: 5150] 1
#23857811 - 11/22/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
5150 said: The water canons in cold temps is fucked up Some protesters will most likely die at some point Rubber bullet to the temple or windpipe harsh times
A woman almost lost her arm when they lobbed concussion grenades at the protectors at the same time that they were firing water cannons at them the other night.
Morton County Sheriff's department is trying to spin it in the press, but unfortunately for them there are many witnesses and videos being filmed that show what fat liars they are.
Also the woman whose arm got blown up; her father is a lawyer.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23858176 - 11/22/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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People been trying to slow down big oil for a long time. So much comes from fossil fuels, we are dependent.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy] 7
#23858348 - 11/22/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 2
#23858452 - 11/22/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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My only problem with Clark Jr. is his comment regarding most who have not served are gutless worms.....He never saw combat so what the fuck is he talking about? Other than trying to be an overzealous hard ass I agree with his/their argument...we Americans will snap eventually....then the country will crumble and Denmark will rise to be a superpower...
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23859109 - 11/22/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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good for them.. i hope they get a huge turnout.
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd


Registered: 05/12/09
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline (moved) [Re: yogabunny]
#23859415 - 11/23/16 03:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Shroomery News Service.
Reason: OT for SNS
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline (moved) [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#23859585 - 11/23/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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stzacrack
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23859621 - 11/23/16 06:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I picture the soldier toy from that movie smalll soldiers with a cigar in his mouth saying the gutless worms quote! Lol!
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23859698 - 11/23/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said:

what's the alternative?
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 1
#23859930 - 11/23/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said:

Anti-coal people don't understand that they're played for fools by the natural gas industry (GE and their cohorts), just look at who lobbies for and benefits from these policies... or that in a global economy just because coal is banned in one country it just pops up in another having absolutely zero net effect on aggregate pollution output.
Paying double or triple for electricity and self inflicted deindustrialization is the only result. The biggest expense in most factories is electricity, even more than labor. So a lot of manufacturing plants have shut down and left the US since Obama shut down over 1,000 coal power plants and doubled and tripled electricity prices.
We want our coal power plants turned back on and our electric bills to halve and factories and jobs to come back to America.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#23859953 - 11/23/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
yogabunny said:

Anti-coal people don't understand that they're played for fools by the natural gas industry (GE and their cohorts), just look at who lobbies for and benefits from these policies... or that in a global economy just because coal is banned in one country it just pops up in another having absolutely zero net effect on aggregate pollution output.
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/11/501749351/trumps-plan-for-clean-coal-could-put-the-brakes-on-natural-gas
Quote:
We want our coal power plants turned back on and our electric bills to halve and factories and jobs to come back to America.
you dont want more hydro dams that would destroy millions of acres of arable land? you dont want one of the top production polluters with the least efficiency per dollar spent that we call solar?
why do the hippies oppose nuclear energy so much?
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ohcrapitsnico
The Other One


Registered: 06/06/09
Posts: 2,720
Loc: Houston
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23859994 - 11/23/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's such hypocrisy, Obama awarded a medal of freedom last night to Elouise Cobell for fighting for native american rights at the same time this is going on.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23860049 - 11/23/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
why do the hippies oppose nuclear energy so much?
Propaganda.
Nuclear is the only future, but we all be dumb monkeys that like to burn shit and are scared of big kabooms, so we're in a bit of a pickle right now.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: ohcrapitsnico]
#23860075 - 11/23/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ohcrapitsnico said: It's such hypocrisy, Obama awarded a medal of freedom last night to Elouise Cobell for fighting for native american rights at the same time this is going on. 
Is that hypocrisy, or a conflict of interest?
The president doesn't have full control over everything, and can't just grant the area to one side or another simply because he is president.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23860104 - 11/23/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The pots stirring at full tilt right now
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23860159 - 11/23/16 10:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thats what i like to hear!
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: WackyWizard]
#23860195 - 11/23/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
WackyWizard said:
Quote:
filthyknees said: As much as I don't like military it's nice to see this. I heard the protesters where being sprayed down with water hoses, in North Dakota that could be a death sentence.
Even if nobody dies, that's practically torture except that they aren't trying to extract information.
By definition it is terrorism.
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Free time is the only time
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 1
#23860208 - 11/23/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said:

Having close ties to Appalachia with generations of family there it is very sad to see what the death of coal is doing to the local economy. But then it is a larger problem in the entire economic model. It depends on antiquated ideas and an antiquated society. If the economic model does not become obsolete along with technology then human beings will never be able to thrive. Millions will eventually not even be able to survive.
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Free time is the only time
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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Posts: 11,281
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23860436 - 11/23/16 12:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
yogabunny said:

what's the alternative?
Pris, I am not going to argue with you.
I'd prefer to try and find common ground, or at the very least, just agree to disagree because we are never going to see eye to eye on most things.
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23860674 - 11/23/16 01:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Alternative = sun, air, water
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Mo.Sigh.Aw
Stranger

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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23860678 - 11/23/16 01:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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i could see this going south.
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Connoisseur] 1
#23860819 - 11/23/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Connoisseur said: Alternative = sun, air, water
Careful, pris was waiting for you to say this
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Connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 34,686
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23860824 - 11/23/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
yogabunny said:

Having close ties to Appalachia with generations of family there it is very sad to see what the death of coal is doing to the local economy. But then it is a larger problem in the entire economic model. It depends on antiquated ideas and an antiquated society. If the economic model does not become obsolete along with technology then human beings will never be able to thrive. Millions will eventually not even be able to survive.
also this is multifaceted issue because its about both the environment and the economy, coal is good for the economy but bad for the environment.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23860851 - 11/23/16 02:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
yogabunny said:

what's the alternative?
In terms of energy or jobs?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs] 1
#23861805 - 11/23/16 08:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
WackyWizard said:
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filthyknees said: As much as I don't like military it's nice to see this. I heard the protesters where being sprayed down with water hoses, in North Dakota that could be a death sentence.
Even if nobody dies, that's practically torture except that they aren't trying to extract information.
By definition it is terrorism.
Nope, terrorism is what the protesters are doing, "harassing people going to work, starting fires and throwing Molotov cocktails, threatening the press"
***yeah, the DAPL protestors are terrorizing innocent people, how NOBLE of them
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse] 3
#23861866 - 11/23/16 08:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
WackyWizard said:
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filthyknees said: As much as I don't like military it's nice to see this. I heard the protesters where being sprayed down with water hoses, in North Dakota that could be a death sentence.
Even if nobody dies, that's practically torture except that they aren't trying to extract information.
By definition it is terrorism.
Nope, terrorism is what the protesters are doing, "harassing people going to work, starting fires and throwing Molotov cocktails, threatening the press"
***yeah, the DAPL protestors are terrorizing innocent people, how NOBLE of them 
Did you read the OP?
Quote:
posted by OP:
For the Standing Rock Sioux, the Dakota Access project poses two immediate threats. First, the pipeline would run beneath Lake Oahe, the reservoir that provides drinking water to the people of Standing Rock. (An earlier route that avoided native lands was ruled out in part because it posed a danger to drinking water.) Second, according to the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, the building of the pipeline would destroy the sacred spots and burial grounds that were overlooked in the Corps’ assessment.
People have the responsibility to protect their land, homes, and families. If their water supply is destroyed then the people will die off. Under these circumstances murdering the invasion force is fully justified. I'd sympathize with these Sioux even if they began killing off these invaders (workers). And these people have been through this kind of genocidal terrorism before and its indelibly burned into their racial memory how the near extinction of the buffalo destroyed the vast majority their recent ancestors. The Sioux way of life is worth fighting for. Its forth killing for and its worth dieing for. And I for one hope they prevail over the evil intentions of their enemies.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] 3
#23862137 - 11/23/16 10:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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damn skippy. HU is a Fox News person. he thinks this shit is like Hippy shit.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 1
#23862212 - 11/23/16 11:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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yogabunny said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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yogabunny said:

what's the alternative?
Pris, I am not going to argue with you.
I'd prefer to try and find common ground, or at the very least, just agree to disagree because we are never going to see eye to eye on most things.

I ask what the alternatives are to coal and it's suddenly a disagreement, how would we possibly find common ground or learn what defines clean energy if you refuse to discuss it... could this be why there's never any actual progress made?
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: moonrockmushy]
#23862214 - 11/23/16 11:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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yogabunny said:

what's the alternative?
In terms of energy or jobs?
energy is jobs
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PartoftheSource
NAUT GUILTY



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23862223 - 11/23/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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You don't believe in renewable clean energy, pris?
-------------------- Shroomery Stickers!
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: PartoftheSource]
#23862235 - 11/23/16 11:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PartoftheSource said: You don't believe in renewable clean energy, pris?
is that what I said?
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23862346 - 11/24/16 12:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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Ellis Dee said:
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yogabunny said:

Anti-coal people don't understand that they're played for fools by the natural gas industry (GE and their cohorts), just look at who lobbies for and benefits from these policies... or that in a global economy just because coal is banned in one country it just pops up in another having absolutely zero net effect on aggregate pollution output.
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/11/501749351/trumps-plan-for-clean-coal-could-put-the-brakes-on-natural-gas
Quote:
We want our coal power plants turned back on and our electric bills to halve and factories and jobs to come back to America.
you dont want more hydro dams that would destroy millions of acres of arable land? you dont want one of the top production polluters with the least efficiency per dollar spent that we call solar?
why do the hippies oppose nuclear energy so much?
not all of us I'm all for nuclear
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ezuma] 2
#23862422 - 11/24/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are far less dangerous nuclear power options than the breeder reactors that have been popular up until now because of their ability to generate a plutonium output. (basically, you throw in some uranium 238 in the reactor and it absorbs a neutron and becomes plutonium 239). Since everyone has more plutonium than they know what to do with, we don't need those dinosaurs anymore. I would be thrilled if they replaced them with thorium reactors.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ezuma]
#23862865 - 11/24/16 08:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: not all of us I'm all for nuclear
The problem with nuclear is that it works great until it goes wrong and then its a calamity of Biblical proportions. Chernobyl is still a problem. They're talking about pouring a new concrete containment wall around it. It'll be a problem for a very long time too. And if there's ever actually a nuke war the meltdown of all the power plants will be more deastating than all the bombs themselves, rendering most places uninhabitable.
Coal is the best for now. Until they can get fusion or thorium reactors going good ole coal is as safe and reliable as we can get. It'll go away eventually, as new energy technologies make it obsolete. But that won't be for a long while so lets burn some coal!
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] 2
#23862883 - 11/24/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The problem with coal is that even if everything goes right it still causes a disaster of epic proportions in the end.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] 3
#23862891 - 11/24/16 08:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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for every death caused by nuclear, about 4000 people die from coal--i would say the argument that nuclear has the possibility to be very bad is moot when compared to the observation that coal currently is very bad
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-deathprint-a-price-always-paid/#2ad1c80649d2
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: shivas.wisdom] 3
#23864730 - 11/24/16 09:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's absurd, the possibility of calamity is too serious to be worth the risk. However you want to twist things around, nuclear power is playing Russian roulette with the ecosystem.
Coal and oil are worse because the problem is well on its way and guaranteed, but that doesn't make Russian roulette a reasonable alternative.
Clean / safe energy or bust, people are more worried about jobs and petty conveniences than the future of life on this planet. The space programs are a long way from saving us, we're not investing shit in that and resources we need to continue building things like computers are finite.
We're stuck here, the next few generations will face the consequences of this societies short-sightedness, its a question at this point how many more generations there will even be.
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Putin
Stranger
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89]
#23864737 - 11/24/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The google graduates sure do have such opinions.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89]
#23864855 - 11/24/16 10:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Risks from reactor accidents are estimated by the rapidly developing science of "probabilistic risk analysis" (PRA). A PRA must be done separately for each power plant (at a cost of $5 million) but we give typical results here: A fuel melt-down might be expected once in 20,000 years of reactor operation. In 2 out of 3 melt-downs there would be no deaths, in 1 out of 5 there would be over 1000 deaths, and in 1 out of 100,000 there would be 50,000 deaths. The average for all meltdowns would be 400 deaths. Since air pollution from coal burning is estimated to be causing 10,000 deaths per year, there would have to be 25 melt-downs each year for nuclear power to be as dangerous as coal burning.
http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/np-risk.htm
And hey, from what I hear, Chernobyl is basically Europe's largest nature reserve these days.
Although, I do agree that the opportunity for nuclear fission has passed. It's unfortunate that it was never really given a chance, though. Despite the higher profile of a nuclear meltdown over air pollution, I feel it would have left the environment in a better place today.
Now, I believe in solar and maybe one day nuclear fusion as the way of the future. Not as stoked on hydroelectric operations though.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#23864868 - 11/24/16 10:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those estimates aren't taking in events like bombing raids and terrorism.
I'm more worried about people deliberately using nuclear power plants as weapons, than there being accidental releases. The gloves are only on now because the world is dominated by one power, during the world wars there were no limits, cities were carpet bombed, chemical weapons used, nuclear...
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#23864973 - 11/24/16 11:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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there would have to be 25 melt-downs each year for nuclear power to be as dangerous as coal burning.
Even if we had a particularly bad year with nuclear plants being bombed left and right, I don't think we would approach coals death rate. But I think we would see widespread devastation, regardless, if WW3 hits. You don't think the Hoover Dam poses a similar hazard?
Anyways, you are talking about worse case scenarios when it comes to nuclear, I'm talking about the standard operating procedure for coal. I think there's a qualitative difference.
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Posts: 21,773
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#23864994 - 11/24/16 11:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The problem nuclear meltdowns presents is the difficulty of containment, eventually as more melt down they go from isolated regional incidents to accumulative global problem.
I'm not comparing cyanide to rattlesnake venom, coal being more dangerous doesn't say anything about nuclear power. We could have invested trillions into clean energy by now, if we started when we first learned the dangers of coal.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89] 3
#23865069 - 11/25/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?
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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#23865550 - 11/25/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?
I took that quote as him referring to the cops and militarized security people.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23865558 - 11/25/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It says “Most civilians" meaning he sees the average person walking around as a gutless worm because they werent trained to kill people or fight in the military or something.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#23865601 - 11/25/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Clean / safe energy or bust, people are more worried about jobs and petty conveniences than the future of life on this planet. The space programs are a long way from saving us, we're not investing shit in that and resources we need to continue building things like computers are finite.
according the the article that shiva posted, nuclear is clean and safe
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#23865646 - 11/25/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
As much as I don't like military it's nice to see this. I heard the protesters where being sprayed down with water hoses, in North Dakota that could be a death sentence.
Even if nobody dies, that's practically torture except that they aren't trying to extract information.
By definition it is terrorism.
Nope, terrorism is what the protesters are doing, "harassing people going to work, starting fires and throwing Molotov cocktails, threatening the press"
***yeah, the DAPL protestors are terrorizing innocent people, how NOBLE of them 
Did you read the OP?
Quote:
posted by OP:
For the Standing Rock Sioux, the Dakota Access project poses two immediate threats. First, the pipeline would run beneath Lake Oahe, the reservoir that provides drinking water to the people of Standing Rock. (An earlier route that avoided native lands was ruled out in part because it posed a danger to drinking water.) Second, according to the Standing Rock Sioux tribe, the building of the pipeline would destroy the sacred spots and burial grounds that were overlooked in the Corps’ assessment.
People have the responsibility to protect their land, homes, and families. If their water supply is destroyed then the people will die off. Under these circumstances murdering the invasion force is fully justified. I'd sympathize with these Sioux even if they began killing off these invaders (workers). And these people have been through this kind of genocidal terrorism before and its indelibly burned into their racial memory how the near extinction of the buffalo destroyed the vast majority their recent ancestors. The Sioux way of life is worth fighting for. Its forth killing for and its worth dieing for. And I for one hope they prevail over the evil intentions of their enemies.
And now the real story
The original route for the pipeline was planned to run across the reservation, all natives were fine with that, the price offered was 10 million, the natives counter offered with 50 million to allow it, DAPL offered 20 million, the natives rejected that and demanded the 50 million. DAPL said fuck you then, "well go around the Rez"
***fast forward a few months and we have this
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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse] 6
#23865657 - 11/25/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Actually the original route was going to go near the city of Bismarck but the citizens and city officials would not allow it due to *drum roll please*
The potential threat to the cities DRINKING WATER.
http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/pipeline-route-plan-first-called-for-crossing-north-of-bismarck/article_64d053e4-8a1a-5198-a1dd-498d386c933c.html
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#23865786 - 11/25/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?
I caught that, and being at the beginning of the article I didn't really give the rest of what it said much credence. He thinks I'm a gutless worm for being a civilian? I think he's a self-aggrandizing asshole for putting himself on a pedestal. Got more out of the thread title than I did the article. That guy can eat shit.
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#23865817 - 11/25/16 11:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: Did anyone mention how he sees people as gutless worms and how concerning that is?
Yeah that was blatantly stupid. It's civilians who are out there right now holding the line. If he really thinks that then he should just stay home and play checkers with himself, because who wants to hang out with gutless worms?
Anyhow, his idea is still a good one and might really draw some much needed attention to the crisis in ND. Even if he is an asshole with an overblown ego, getting 500 veterans in full regalia and protective gear to try and walk through the riot gear police to finally surround the pipeline is a bold statement. Furthermore, I think that veterans are probably the most prepared, mentally, to actually undergo something like that. They are going to put themselves in an incredibly dangerous situation.
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23865841 - 11/25/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
“Most civilians who’ve never served in a uniform are gutless worms who’ve never been in a fight in their life,” Wes Clark Jr. declares. “So if we don’t stop it, who will?”
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 11,281
Loc: Nasty Women Get Shit Done
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23865845 - 11/25/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I agree the statement is needlessly incendiary and combative.
HOWEVER -
Quote:
“So if we don’t stop it, who will?”
^this is very true.
It's a really nice sentiment to have so many non-indigenous actors, healers, musicians, and other activists heading to Standing Rock in solidarity, but these veterans can be of aid on the front line in ways that MOST civilians simply cannot.
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23865851 - 11/25/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, here come His Holiness to save the day for the lowly, helpless civilian worms. All praise Wes Clark Jr! All Heil! It wouldn't have anything to do with getting his name in the news to jumpstart a political or entertainment career.
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yogabunny
fancy cat



Registered: 11/01/09
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: abltsandwich]
#23865873 - 11/25/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, WHAT an asshole.
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23865883 - 11/25/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Exploiting turmoil to get his name out there, all while looking down sardonically on the lowly gutless civilians he's "saving," does make him an asshole. He doesn't even see them as equals. Let's substitute the word "blacks" or "gays" instead of "civilians" and he doesn't seem so nice does he? It's bullshit. He's bullshit. He's a self-serving clown doing a publicity stunt.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: abltsandwich] 1
#23865884 - 11/25/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude, I seriously doubt his intent was to jumpstart anything career wise, what a joke. He may just be an older disgruntled vet type who rants from time to time and is into the activism of what's going on.
The butthurt over the gutless worms comment is funny to me, is not a big deal. Vets and soldiers talk about civilians like that quite often, it's part of military culture in a way. Some of them are full of shit, some of them are pretty spot on it. Just goes with the territory I guess. All I'm saying is don't get too butthurt over it, it's nothing really.
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: PatrickKn]
#23865895 - 11/25/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Let's bump this thread in a year and see how it all turned out.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23865897 - 11/25/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said: I agree the statement is needlessly incendiary and combative.
HOWEVER -
Quote:
“So if we don’t stop it, who will?”
^this is very true.
It's a really nice sentiment to have so many non-indigenous actors, healers, musicians, and other activists heading to Standing Rock in solidarity, but these veterans can be of aid on the front line in ways that MOST civilians simply cannot.

so you agree that most civilians are gutless worms and are incapable of standing up for themselves
that must be why they're protecting the water by polluting the air and poisoning the soil

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daytripper05
Psychonaut




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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23865961 - 11/25/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seriously dude? I respect what you say most of the time, but you are really starting to sound like a right-wing Koods. As I'm sure you've read my comments in the Trump threads and know that I am conservative libertarian and voted Trump, but I DO NOT support the militarized police state and the way we are treating our natives. I suggest you do some real research from real people reporting and posting live videos to Facebook. If you get your information from any mainstream source, they are going to spin it in favor of Big Oil.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: daytripper05] 1
#23866020 - 11/25/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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these natives have invaded private and public lands to stop a private enterprise, these same natives and non natives are taking children into dangerous situations and provoking violence from these 'militarized police' and private security contractors, these same natives and non natives will be the same ones that will attack this pipeline in order to contaminate the water so they can "prove" they were right
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/pipelines-are-safest-way-transport-oil-and-gas
maybe if you did some research you'd learn that pipelines do carry some risk but the current methods of transporting this oil poses far more risks, you'd also learn that the mainstream media is reporting favorably on the protestors, downplaying the violence from their side and vilifying the cops as brutal assailants, of course if you only want to hear the protesters side it shows you seek the confirmation bias against the "cops" which as it appears is your motivation
and since you like to cite facebook as a valid news source, here's something from someone that has fought for native rights about the lies these protesters are telling to stop this pipeline
https://www.facebook.com/notes/scott-gates/on-the-standing-rock-tribes-dakota-pipeline-protest-/10154529600627457
now why would these defenders of the earth be setting fire to old tires and equipment in order to 'protect the earth', are they completely stupid or are they lying about that as well, I dont know about the standing rock area but I know that my area hasnt had rain in several months, we've had several fires started recently by people throwing out cigarette butts in addition to fires from arson, mush of it burning tens of thousands of acres of land. morton county north dakota does seem to have favorable conditions for wild fires and these earth defenders are setting shit on fire. how many of their own will they kill when one of these fires gets out of control? how many of the children that they put in harms way will die because of their stupidity
now why you felt the need to announce who you voted for as being trump, I didnt vote for trump, I voted no confidence. I did not like either options
Edited by Prisoner#1 (11/25/16 01:18 PM)
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 4
#23866057 - 11/25/16 01:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Typical response insinuating I haven't done research on both sides and haven't been objective, because you way wrong. The mainstream reports I have seen, with the exception of the few in the last week, have all be in favor of the pipeline. 
Have you watched any of the videos posted by the protestors? There are many many videos from multiple angles, some 30-40 minutes in length. There are weeks of videos. Like any protest, there is some degree of wrong doing. These protests aren't anything remotely like the ones done by the "not my president" groups, who actually do incite violence and being paid.
The protestors don't have guns or weapons, yet cops are attacking them. They purposely shoot people in the head with rubber bullets and throw concussion grenades into crowds and in one instance blowing a girls arm off. Regardless if the protestors were breaking a law, this kind of conduct and force from our police is entirely out of hand.
You see it in black communities, you see with the pipe protestors, and you see it every single day when the enforce the war on drugs. I also think at this point the issue goes far deeper than this single pipeline, and show the hypocrisy and corruption of our government at all levels.
For someone willing to point their finger at democrats and liberals so often, you she learn to point the finger in the other direction at times too. And while the letter of the law is definitely not on the side of the protestors, as a human being we have to decide what is morally right and wrong in the macro sense.
Using a few instances of bad protestors (speaking only in the case of the pipeline), you can't dismiss the human rights tragedy that is occurring.
How are these people "killing their own"? That sounds like pure rhetoric to me. Anyway, I'm definitely not going to try to debate anything with you. Rather, I'll just post my views and allow others to read it and they can read your responses, and they can make their own conclusion about the issue.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: daytripper05]
#23866103 - 11/25/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: Typical response insinuating I haven't done research on both sides and haven't been objective, because you way wrong. The mainstream reports I have seen, with the exception of the few in the last week, have all be in favor of the pipeline. 
you mean like this one where they say the protesters were brutally attacked without provocation
http://abcnews.go.com/US/tensions-mount-protesters-police-controversial-pipeline/story?id=43078902
Quote:
Have you watched any of the videos posted by the protestors?
you mean the videos that dont catch all the information, only what the protesters want you to see, isnt that what you're accusing the media of?
Quote:
The protestors don't have guns or weapons, yet cops are attacking them. They purposely shoot people in the head with rubber bullets and throw concussion grenades into crowds and in one instance blowing a girls arm off. Regardless if the protestors were breaking a law, this kind of conduct and force from our police is entirely out of hand.
You see it in black communities, you see with the pipe protestors, and you see it every single day when the enforce the war on drugs. I also think at this point the issue goes far deeper than this single pipeline, and show the hypocrisy and corruption of our government at all levels.
so you look for what you want to see is what you're telling me. did police set the fires? are fires also not a weapon?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/tensions-mount-protesters-police-controversial-pipeline/story?id=43078902
Quote:
There were two incidents of shots fired late this afternoon and evening, according to authorities. One occurred along Highway 1806 near what is known as the “backwater bridge” north of the main camp -- one person is in custody. A protester along the frontline on Highway 1806 also fired three rounds near officers. No one was injured and the protester was taken into custody.
“The protesters are not being peaceful or prayerful," Cass County Sheriff Paul Laney said in the press release. "Law enforcement has been very methodical in moving ahead slowly as to not escalate the situation. However, the protesters are using very dangerous means to slow us down. Their aggressive tactics include using horses, fire and trying to flank us with horses and people.”
Quote:
How are these people "killing their own"? That sounds like pure rhetoric to me. Anyway, I'm definitely not going to try to debate anything with you. Rather, I'll just post my views and allow others to read it and they can read your responses, and they can make their own conclusion about the issue.
all I have done is post my views and the views of others that have also payed close attention, my opinion being that when you drag your children into a protest where violence will erupt and the opposing side has better weapons and authorization to use them, you put your children in danger by using them as a human shield. that is what these people are doing. by starting fires in drought stricken areas they put themselves in danger because a prairie fire is damn hard to escape and fire certainly kills. if you're blind to these facts then clearly you're blind to all the other bullshit they're spreading
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akira_akuma
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23866125 - 11/25/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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someone once shot Prisoner in the head with a rubber bullet...now he's...like this.
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daytripper05
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23866137 - 11/25/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Like I said, not going to debate you. But you can watch from the police angle too, and read their articles (which I do). Again, you are just assuming that I haven't taken into account of the other side.
You also have leaders of the protest condemning the spread of misinformation, violence, starting fires, and vandalism. Most of the people from all the accounts I've read are people that come here from other parts of the country, not the natives or locals themselves.
There are instances of cops actually quitting the police force and join the protestors because they said what they are doing is wrong.
I just don't think justify two wrongs make a right. You literally have Obama saying he's for indigenous rights but it playing the hand of Big Oil and the interests of the massive finance companies (like corrupt Wells Fargo) that have a half a billion invested in a pipeline. The protests wouldn't be getting to level they have if the president didn't say "lets let this play out for a few more weeks".
We have a lame duck president that cares more about muslims and black lives matter and Trey Martan than about our indigenous people. That's what pisses me off about the issue so much. I don't justify law breaking, violence, vandalism, endangering kids, but I don't agree with what's going on either. The issue of the government corruption is far bigger and more overreaching than a few bad apples and hypocrisies of the protestors.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: daytripper05]
#23866174 - 11/25/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: Like I said, not going to debate you. But you can watch from the police angle too, and read their articles (which I do). Again, you are just assuming that I haven't taken into account of the other side.
and you're assuming I havent and that I take the side of the police when in reality I am not siding with a pack of liars that are protesting under a false pretense while propagating more lies to generate sympathy
Quote:
We have a lame duck president that cares more about muslims and black lives matter and Trey Martan than about our indigenous people. That's what pisses me off about the issue so much. I don't justify law breaking, violence, vandalism, endangering kids, but I don't agree with what's going on either. The issue of the government corruption is far bigger and more overreaching than a few bad apples and hypocrisies of the protestors.
you obviously dont care about what's actually happening either because this issue isnt about government corruption, the souix nation had 2 years to submit a grievance during the planning states, there were 17 instances where the pipeline was rerouted to alleviate the concerns of the people in the area, even crystal g pointed out one of them, the problem is when the corp of engineers approached the souix leader they refused to deal with them, they've done so on multiple occasions and still refuse. they want to blame everything but themselves and their leaders for this shit and no one wants to see that truth
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PartoftheSource
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: akira_akuma]
#23866187 - 11/25/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: someone once shot Prisoner in the head with a rubber bullet...now he's...like this. 
The saddest part of it all is I'm pretty sure pris is native american. I could be mistaken.
-------------------- Shroomery Stickers!
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: PartoftheSource] 1
#23866190 - 11/25/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
PartoftheSource said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: someone once shot Prisoner in the head with a rubber bullet...now he's...like this. 
The saddest part of it all is I'm pretty sure pris is native american. I could be mistaken.
so just because I'm cherokee and comanche I should accept and side with people that had the chance to do something, refused to do it and now they're angry because they failed to act?
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akira_akuma
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23866231 - 11/25/16 02:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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i don't think is being contrarian for the sake of being an asshole, i think he has a point. but i still think the violence cannot be condoned, so...there is that too.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: akira_akuma]
#23866691 - 11/25/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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the violence from which side?
everyone keeps claiming these protesters are innocent but they're trying to break through baricades, they're shooting at or at least in the direction of the security that's trying to keep them at bay and those voilent actions prompt actions from the security such as flash bangs, water hoses and rubber bullets
contrary to the popular myths about this, it's not a peaceful protest.
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akira_akuma
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23866712 - 11/25/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh the protests are retarded, i know they aren't peaceful, too.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: akira_akuma]
#23866729 - 11/25/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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People get pissed off when they are disrespected. This is a case of disrespect. But you can't really slow down big oil much.
I,am not really against oil. My grandpa owned and operated a fairly large drilling company. My dad was running drilling crews since before he could drive. There just wasn't much of a legacy by the time I grew up. Curse of old people having kids and oil taxes.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy]
#23866739 - 11/25/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: People get pissed off when they are disrespected. This is a case of disrespect. But you can't really slow down big oil much.
who is 'they' and how exactly were 'they' disrespected?
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23866744 - 11/25/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Native Americans and people with respect that worship the Earth.
You might be too stupid to talk with. Don't want to spill your drool cup.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy]
#23866750 - 11/25/16 05:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: Native Americans and people with respect that worship the Earth.
You might be too stupid to talk with. Don't want to spill your drool cup.
I suspect you romanticize the indians a little too much
how were they disrespected?
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23866771 - 11/25/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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How were they disrespected?
They do not want the pipe line anywhere near the land they were forcefully moved to. There have been burials where the pipe line is. They aren't going to profit as much as they lose what pride they have. Surely they could speak for themselves better than I can.
If someone wanted to move a pipe line through your confederate family cemetary would you feel disrespected?
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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yogabunny
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23866991 - 11/25/16 06:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: the violence from which side?
everyone keeps claiming these protesters are innocent but they're trying to break through baricades, they're shooting at or at least in the direction of the security that's trying to keep them at bay and those voilent actions prompt actions from the security such as flash bangs, water hoses and rubber bullets
contrary to the popular myths about this, it's not a peaceful protest.
Yes, according to the Morton County Sheriff's department, this is happening.
--------------------
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Mescalean
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23866999 - 11/25/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Only issue I have with his statement is "most civilians are worms" I've seen plenty of marines (the worst when it comes to hand to hand training) get fucked up by a 1st year jui jitsu student. Just came of ass extremely cocky. Nice to see that some people are willing to fight for them. Fighters serve their purpose as I hope some of you are starting to see.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23867009 - 11/25/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: How were they disrespected?
They do not want the pipe line anywhere near the land they were forcefully moved to.
so they dont want a pipeline where they arent living, on land that does not cross their boundary
Quote:
There have been burials where the pipe line is.
that is what they claim but it appears there is no evidence of that, they also had a chance to lodge petitions over a period of 2 years, as I had already stated those petitions have resulted in 17 redirections of the pipeline. THEY had refused to discuss anything with the corps of engineers, they worked with the corp of engineers happily when they wanted their own water systems repaired and their roads fixed at the expense of US tax payers but suddenly when it's not something for them they arent interested
Quote:
They aren't going to profit as much as they lose what pride they have.
so it's about profits to them, I have to agree. because the pipeline isnt going through the reservation they arent drawing any cash from it and to stop their protest now will certainly cause them to lose pride because they'll have to admit they were wrong in handling things as they had
Quote:
Surely they could speak for themselves better than I can.
they had the change to speak up
Quote:
If someone wanted to move a pipe line through your confederate family cemetary would you feel disrespected?
if I had a confederate family cemetery then I'm all for it as long as I'm justly compensated, now here's an idea, how about showing us the remains that were dug up that prove this is the ancient indian burial ground and not just another false claim from these protesters
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 2
#23867011 - 11/25/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: the violence from which side?
everyone keeps claiming these protesters are innocent but they're trying to break through baricades, they're shooting at or at least in the direction of the security that's trying to keep them at bay and those voilent actions prompt actions from the security such as flash bangs, water hoses and rubber bullets
contrary to the popular myths about this, it's not a peaceful protest.
Yes, according to the Morton County Sheriff's department, this is happening.

so prove it's a peaceful protest, peaceful protesters dont set fires to shit
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yogabunny
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23867086 - 11/25/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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As far as I'm aware they lit fires during the clash on Sunday night to keep WARM.
And, if you watch the many hundreds of videos available, you see the militarized security goons are shooting water and there are NO FIRES to be seen anywhere.
Why were they shooting water if there was no fire?
Also, from what I understand the elder indigenous folks are calling for immediate eviction of any protectors or allies who are not protesting peacefully.
--------------------
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daytripper05
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23867122 - 11/25/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Priz, how many videos have you watched and from what sources? I've many and my gf has watched videos for literally months. I have read virtually every article written by mainstream sources the articles that make the protestors out to be bad literally don't even attempt to get the other perspective. Just taking the word of the police, despite being plenty of videos footage to refute much of how they spin their press releases.
Like I said, the letter of the current law is on the side of DAPL. But so was the law during the civil rights movement, and when woman couldn't vote, and with the current drug policy. Sometimes breaking laws to get unjust laws changed is the only option. If the protestors were being violent, then surely there would be some injuries to the police or paid security guards.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 2
#23867163 - 11/25/16 07:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said: As far as I'm aware they lit fires during the clash on Sunday night to keep WARM.
as far as you are aware
you think this fire was lit for them to stay warm back in october?

maybe it was also this one they lit to stay warm

maybe it was this one

could have been this one

http://www.vice.com/read/standing-rock-post-arrest-photo-gallery
no, it couldnt have been any of those because these protesters say they havent acted violently
Quote:
And, if you watch the many hundreds of videos available, you see the militarized security goons are shooting water and there are NO FIRES to be seen anywhere.
Why were they shooting water if there was no fire?
are you aware you're being led by the nose by a bunch of people that know how to edit video
there were in fact fires, plenty of fires, and all within reach of the hoses
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/307541-dem-senator-urges-justice-dept-intervene-to-prevent-violence-at
some were big fucking fires... in a drought... a danger to far more people than just the protesters and cops
http://magseriesusa.net/2016/11/25/standing-rock-protesters-vow-to-stay-despite-hypothermia/

yeah, you keep believing they were simply hosed down for no reason because you want to believe that indians would never lie to you
Quote:
Also, from what I understand the elder indigenous folks are calling for immediate eviction of any protectors or allies who are not protesting peacefully.
Hillary told us that she speaks with 2 faces, do you believe these chiefs cannot do the same?
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23867377 - 11/25/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's all irrelevant now, the adults are finally gonna step in and shut this BS down
Quote:
Today we were notified by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that on Dec. 5th, they will close all lands north of the Cannonball River, which is where the Oceti Sakowin camp is located.
http://www.myndnow.com/news/bismarck-news/statement-from-chairman-archambault-on-army-corps-decision
***second time this month Americans are WINNING!
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Chakra Shock
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23867538 - 11/25/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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How are you so sure that those fires were lit by protesters?
First of all, the fires in the image with the water hoses were not large fires, these 'dangerous fires' that you mentioned are not evident in any of the pictures which you posted. It's cold out there, lighting a manageable fire is just common sense. If this was a violent protest, then the majority of the protesters would be actively attacking the police. This is not the case, and is not what is discussed or supported by the community at standing rock. I have friends who have been there and I've read plenty of articles from sources which actually interviewed the protesters, unlike the biased major media outlets which only talk to the morton county police.
Furthermore, this pipeline crosses over land which is legally bound to the Sioux people through the Ft. Laramie treaty of 1851. Believe it or not, they actually fucking own that land, and the pipeline which crosses over it is violating the autonomy granted in the treaty.
Multiple pipeline routes were declined by the army corps of engineers due to being a threat for clean drinking water. The river brings clean drinking water to millions of people, millions including native americans. So ask yourself, why does this plan, which violates a legally binding treaty as well as endangers the drinking water for millions, seem to be 'okay'?
This plan was reviewed by other cabinets of the united states government, and all of them found it to be inadequate and called for a total revision. The army corps of engineers ignored these appraisals and went ahead with it anyways.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock] 1
#23867542 - 11/25/16 10:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chakra Shock said: How are you so sure that those fires were lit by protesters?
First of all, the fires in the image with the water hoses were not large fires, these 'dangerous fires' that you mentioned are not evident in any of the pictures which you posted. It's cold out there, lighting a manageable fire is just common sense. If this was a violent protest, then the majority of the protesters would be actively attacking the police. This is not the case, and is not what is discussed or supported by the community at standing rock. I have friends who have been there and I've read plenty of articles from sources which actually interviewed the protesters, unlike the biased major media outlets which only talk to the morton county police.
Furthermore, this pipeline crosses over land which is legally bound to the Sioux people through the Ft. Laramie treaty of 1851. Believe it or not, they actually fucking own that land, and the pipeline which crosses over it is violating the autonomy granted in the treaty.
Multiple pipeline routes were declined by the army corps of engineers due to being a threat for clean drinking water. The river brings clean drinking water to millions of people, millions including native americans. So ask yourself, why does this plan, which violates a legally binding treaty as well as endangers the drinking water for millions, seem to be 'okay'?
This plan was reviewed by other cabinets of the united states government, and all of them found it to be inadequate and called for a total revision. The army corps of engineers ignored these appraisals and went ahead with it anyways.
yeah, that's what it is. the cops set fire to trucks, tires and crossed over the fences to set fire to shit just so they could spray some protesters with a hose in freezing weather.
all I can say is 'holy fuck, someone cage the millennials before they hurt themselves"
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23867561 - 11/25/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I did read an article which mentioned that the police set fire to a car barricade, and arrested the protesters as they attempted to dismantle it.
I'm not sure about that, it could have been misinformation, but a lot of those burning barricades make sense from the perspective of the protesters. They're trying to protect that land and themselves, without open combat which violates their principles and simultaneously would end in disaster for them. A flaming barricade keeps the police at bay without directly threatening them unless they're stupid enough to get too close to it.
I don't condone burning barricades, I think they send a bad image and allow skeptics to say "oh look at them, those ruffians, those criminals", without taking the time to analyze the whole situation.
Regardless of how bad those flaming barricades look, that pipeline is a sham and is trespassing on land which is protected by a treaty of the U.S. government. This specific plan was admonished by multiple governmental organizations, and is only serving the interest of immensely wealthy and powerful oil companies.
You may not like the tactics of these protesters, it might sit easier with you for this pipeline to be up and running, but the bottom line is that to construct it on their land, beneath the missouri river without their consent, is in direct violation of their rights and poses a legitimate threat to the community and environment.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23867570 - 11/25/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm sure you imagine you read a lot of things just so you can come here and tell us
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23867588 - 11/25/16 11:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fact check everything I said about the army corps of engineers and the ft. Laramie treaty from 1851.
You haven't even brought those points up because there's no argument about it, there's a clear right and wrong here, and you're advocating for everything that is wrong with this situation.
You might disagree with radical efforts to protect that land, but everything isn't 'alright' just because the government is doing it. The government can be in the wrong, and in this case, the morton county police department is acting no better than mercenaries for an oil pipeline. They should be helping the Sioux defend their land from that pipeline, not the other way around.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23867595 - 11/25/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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you're right, there is no arguing your fiction
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23867632 - 11/25/16 11:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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it violates the 1851 treaty, which was violated by gold rushers and cole miners, causing it to be 'redrawn' in later years, or basically have more land stolen from the Sioux. So now the DAPL passes within a half mile of the 1889 boundary, over land which has national historic sites, i.e. burial mounds and other culturally significant locations ( remember, this land was originally the Sioux reservation ), which means that, if you consider native american culture a part of national history, then it also violates the national historic preservation act. It's also a clear threat to the drinking water from the missouri river, which is the same danger which caused the Dakota Access company to remap this pipeline twice before the current plan.
It's a blatant and flagrant disregard for the rights and cultural respect of Native Americans. Hide your head in the sand and fly down south all you want to, but this crisis encapsulates everything that is wrong with our government, the way it will walk over the human rights and lives of people which it deems less important than their own interests.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23867650 - 11/25/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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and you're still in the world of fiction
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 5
#23867893 - 11/26/16 05:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Americans getting buttfucked by their masters, believe they are "winning"
Yeah, good luck, man. Rome wasn't toppled in a day either, but I'm sure Pris would have been all "Caligula will make the empire Great Again!" and "lead in wine and drinking water is no biggy."
--------------------
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Turtletotem] 2
#23868173 - 11/26/16 08:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Retarded reckless farming practices and water pollution from the midwest/south have already virtually ended all life in a 5000~ mile area of the Bay of Mexico ... but HURR DURR JIMMY HICKEITY SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR BEIN ABLE TO RAPE NATURE INDISCRIMINATE PASS THE BACON COME ON COUSIN LETS FUCK! EVERYTHIN'S FINE!

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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead] 4
#23868193 - 11/26/16 08:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Directly from the fundraising page for the Veterans "deployment"
Quote:
REMINDER: NO WEAPONS, NO EXCEPTIONS. Leave your anger at home we will no doubt encounter hostility from various sources - prepare yourself mentally for that but also prepare yourself for the power of 2,000 Veterans from every corner of this country coming together with no regard for race, color, gender, politics, religious affiliation...nothing but a commitment to the oath they signed to protect this country and its people. An oath that cannot be unsigned, that promise of service and honor. The eyes of the world are upon you now, and now more than ever we need this action to succeed.
They are now at their max capacity and TWO THOUSAND Veterans will arrive on December 4th in support of the Water Protectors and Mother Earth.
--------------------
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 1
#23868205 - 11/26/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said: Directly from the fundraising page for the Veterans "deployment"
Quote:
REMINDER: NO WEAPONS, NO EXCEPTIONS. Leave your anger at home we will no doubt encounter hostility from various sources - prepare yourself mentally for that but also prepare yourself for the power of 2,000 Veterans from every corner of this country coming together with no regard for race, color, gender, politics, religious affiliation...nothing but a commitment to the oath they signed to protect this country and its people. An oath that cannot be unsigned, that promise of service and honor. The eyes of the world are upon you now, and now more than ever we need this action to succeed.
They are now at their max capacity and TWO THOUSAND Veterans will arrive on December 4th in support of the Water Protectors and Mother Earth.

One day before the army corp of engineers kicks them out
http://www.myndnow.com/news/bismarck-news/statement-from-chairman-archambault-on-army-corps-decision
Quote:
Today we were notified by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that on Dec. 5th, they will close all lands north of the Cannonball River, which is where the Oceti Sakowin camp is located.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead] 1
#23868239 - 11/26/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's not a bad issue either. There was talk about a year ago on the news of requiring education to spread manure and fertilizer. So much run off has been creating blue green algae. It's a highly toxic algae.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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yogabunny
fancy cat



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23868277 - 11/26/16 09:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yep. Perfect timing.
--------------------
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mycosis



Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 19,727
Loc: USSA
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny] 1
#23868318 - 11/26/16 09:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but the DAPL pipeline follows an already existing pipeline side by side through these contested areas. The existing pipeline was laid in 1982 with no protest.
I wonder how many people know that there is already a pipeline run through this exact area?
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Morel Guy
Stranger


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: mycosis]
#23868330 - 11/26/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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They put a natural gas line thru our area. Some people didn't want it to go thru. You know, because it's their land and all that.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: mycosis] 1
#23868346 - 11/26/16 09:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes.... the military spends billions and billions on weapons but when a few trucks are burned the real enemy is revealed: protesters.
It's the young kids and the Indians can't you see they're tearing us apart
X100000 *hides thread*
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Morel Guy
Stranger


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: filthyknees]
#23868356 - 11/26/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The military spends trillions. They can blow a couple of billion or more on one single weapon. Those usually fail for a decade or more.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: yogabunny]
#23869029 - 11/26/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said: Directly from the fundraising page for the Veterans "deployment"
Quote:
REMINDER: NO WEAPONS, NO EXCEPTIONS. Leave your anger at home we will no doubt encounter hostility from various sources - prepare yourself mentally for that but also prepare yourself for the power of 2,000 Veterans from every corner of this country coming together with no regard for race, color, gender, politics, religious affiliation...nothing but a commitment to the oath they signed to protect this country and its people. An oath that cannot be unsigned, that promise of service and honor. The eyes of the world are upon you now, and now more than ever we need this action to succeed.
They are now at their max capacity and TWO THOUSAND Veterans will arrive on December 4th in support of the Water Protectors and Mother Earth.

yes because rules, laws and signs always work so well at stopping people from doing what they want
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Eywa_devotee
Goddess Worshiper


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23870459 - 11/26/16 08:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Haha i tagged a few of those NO GUNS signs with stickers that read... "Except for Criminals, Nuts, Cops, and anyone who has values amendment #2. If you are a cop or someone who exercises the right to bear arms, your good marksmanship is appreciated, especially if somebody goes nuts shooting up the place. Thank you"
-------------------- "Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Eywa_devotee]
#23870605 - 11/26/16 09:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23870622 - 11/26/16 09:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The morton county police department said that that injury was caused by the protester's alleged propane tank projectiles. Lmfao ( in cynical irony ). The shards of a concussion grenade will be found in her arm and used as defense. The UN is investigating the morton county sherif's department for human rights abuses.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 1
#23870624 - 11/26/16 09:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/23/503120449/woman-injured-at-standing-rock-protest-might-lose-arm-family-says
These people are terrorists
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/11/23/really-injured-sophia-wilansky/
Quote:
Logic suggests that Sophia Wilansky may have been the female authorities saw wounded in the explosion of a propane canister-based improvised explosive device (IED).
If the shrapnel recovered from Sophia Wilansky’s body matches that from the evidence recovered from the scene, then there seems to be sufficient evidence to bring charges of attempted murder and domestic terrorism against her for attempting to use a bomb against law enforcement officers.
***play stupid games, win stupid prizes
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock] 1
#23870626 - 11/26/16 09:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chakra Shock said: The morton county police department said that that injury was caused by the protester's alleged propane tank projectiles. Lmfao ( in cynical irony ). The shards of a concussion grenade will be found in her arm and used as defense. The UN is investigating the morton county sherif's department for human rights abuses.
All the video and all the photographs being taken during every confrontation and there is no evidence to support the "concussion grenade" theory
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23870633 - 11/26/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ahhh I see. This was the original I saw, I just did a quick search to post an article of it.
If she did try to create such a weapon, then that sucks for her
Regardless, this pipeline is bullshit. However, I understand the desire/need to free ourselves from foreign oil. We are literally funding our own demise.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23870644 - 11/26/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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We will see.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23870663 - 11/26/16 10:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Ahhh I see. This was the original I saw, I just did a quick search to post an article of it
Yeah, lots of propaganda out there
Quote:
If she did try to create such a weapon, then that sucks for her
Sure does
Quote:
Regardless, this pipeline is bullshit. However, I understand the desire/need to free ourselves from foreign oil. We are literally funding our own demise

If pipelines were a problem, you'd already be dead
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23870668 - 11/26/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah but doesn't this one violate a treaty of some sort?
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 1
#23870677 - 11/26/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Ahhh I see. This was the original I saw, I just did a quick search to post an article of it.
If she did try to create such a weapon, then that sucks for her
and it does more to prove that this isnt a peaceful protest, it's just more liberal bullshit being used to try and manipulate people's thoughts and emotions to get them to side with the protesters, they somehow think public outcry will help their cause
Quote:
Regardless, this pipeline is bullshit. However, I understand the desire/need to free ourselves from foreign oil. We are literally funding our own demise.
this is precisely the kind of manipulation I'm talking about. oil isnt going anywhere for a long time, there's no safe, economical and feasible means of transportation in development and because of this we will be reliant on oil for some time, now armed with that knowledge, pipelines are the safest means of moving that oil. yes, shit does happen but it's far more frequent with rail, truck and ship than with pipelines
this pipeline protest is what's bullshit
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 1
#23870679 - 11/26/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Yeah but doesn't this one violate a treaty of some sort?
it doesnt cross into the reservation
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 1
#23870714 - 11/26/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Yeah but doesn't this one violate a treaty of some sort?
Yes and no, the treaty they cite was drawn up over 150 years ago, since then, the lines have been redrawn, currently, the pipeline does not cross onto reservation,
***if it was built 150 years ago, it would have
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 3
#23870735 - 11/26/16 10:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Yeah but doesn't this one violate a treaty of some sort?
it doesnt cross into the reservation
it doesn't cross into the reservation on the lands post abrogation of the original treaty. The only reason this pipeline is possible where it is is due to older infractions of the 1851 reservation, which was based on a treaty, not a negotiable, malleable distinction of boundaries.
In the first 38 years of the treaty, the Sioux had already begun to construct communities on that land, and now the pipeline crosses a mile outside of the 'current' reservation, over land which has culturally relevant and historic sites on it for the Sioux, like burial mounds. The pipeline goes directly over burial sites, which were perfectly acceptable where they were placed, seeing as that was the land which was originally decreed as being Sioux land.
So by saying it doesn't "cross into the reservation", you're sympathizing with the U.S. government's original violation of the ft. laramie treaty and abuse of the native people from countless infractions of a similar nature.
This is one more example of how the U.S. government doesn't give a fuck about how they treat the indigenous people, but it is also an opportunity to begin to change that current of history.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23870749 - 11/26/16 10:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Yeah but doesn't this one violate a treaty of some sort?
Yes and no, the treaty they cite was drawn up over 150 years ago, since then, the lines have been redrawn, currently, the pipeline does not cross onto reservation,
***if it was built 150 years ago, it would have 
Where do you draw the line? If 50 years from now they want to do shit on the land that is currently considered protected under the treaty, would you still say (to paraphrase) "No biggie"
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Posts: 2,514
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23870768 - 11/26/16 10:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah just because something has been going on for a long time does not make it okay.
It's not like the Sioux and the U.S. government got together and redrew the treaty lines peacefully, those lands were continuously invaded by colonial americans, to the point that the reservations grew smaller and smaller.
Yet again, this pipeline is only outside of the reservation due to abrogations of the original treaty. If a government does not uphold the treaties to which it has bound itself, then it has lost all credibility as being trustworthy, and can no longer expect any other nation to honor the treaties which they make with said government.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23870771 - 11/26/16 11:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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American Indians have many more protections today than they did even 50 years ago, nowadays it would be virtually imposble to violate any current treaty or boundry
***its much easier to erase our border with Mexico
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse] 2
#23870776 - 11/26/16 11:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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How can we say that 1st Nations People have more protections now when a pipeline can be built a mile away from a reservation, on lands which were stolen from the original reservation, over historically relevant sites, and in a spot which, if it bursts, could completely destroy their only source of clean drinking water?
And when they try to make it known that this is not okay, that this is in the tradition of centuries of abuse and oppression, they are sprayed with water cannons in 27 degree weather, shot with rubber bullets, maced, beaten and sprayed with tear gas.
And you say they are protected? Tell me, how are they protected from all of this?
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23870786 - 11/26/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ehhhhh it's my understanding the pipeline runs through a water source that feeds into the reservation. Stop polluting the fucking environment dammit. Respect the fucking Earth.
The muslim states already have so much money from oil it is already too late to overcome the obvious colonization that is occurring and will continue to occur. We had our chance to wake up and live harmoniously with the world around us. We chose comfort. The future is going to be bleak and then reset, and then the distant future will look back on this time in history as a very sad time.
The sad part is, Islam doesn't try to preserve the host nation at all. They castrate their slaves and demolish any history that existed before them.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock] 1
#23870790 - 11/26/16 11:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chakra Shock said: How can we say that 1st Nations People have more protections now when a pipeline can be built a mile away from a reservation, on lands which were stolen from the original reservation, over historically relevant sites, and in a spot which, if it bursts, could completely destroy their only source of clean drinking water?
And you say they are protected? Tell me, how are they protected from all of this?
Would you like us all to go back to Europe? Because pretty much every treaty has been violated
***europe is out anyway, they are only accepting Muslims 
^^^maybe we can all go to Mexico?
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


Registered: 02/22/13
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23870798 - 11/26/16 11:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Rofl no dude we should not go back to Europe, but at least here this pipeline should be redrawn. I mean ffs, they're going to make immense profits off of it anyways, delaying completion for reconstruction is the least they can do in the face of the history that the Native Americans have had to face.
It's like cutting in line in front of someone who was just in a car accident at the hospital because you have a cold, and then saying 'sorry! I know you're bleeding out but I really, really hate having a cough!'
But Mr.BYM is sayin some bleak words of prophecy. Can we really say that the future is so bleak?
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock] 1
#23870815 - 11/26/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Chakra Shock said: Rofl no dude we should not go back to Europe, but at least here this pipeline should be redrawn. I mean ffs, they're going to make immense profits off of it anyways, delaying completion for reconstruction is the least they can do in the face of the history that the Native Americans have had to face.
It's like cutting in line in front of someone who was just in a car accident at the hospital because you have a cold, and then saying 'sorry! I know you're bleeding out but I really, really hate having a cough!'
But Mr.BYM is sayin some bleak words of prophecy. Can we really say that the future is so bleak?
Did you know the natives were gonna allow it to actully cross the reservation? They demanded 50 million for the easement, DAPL offered 20, if wasn't good enough, and now they're protesting
It's all BS And they are only feeding into the left wing anti oil zealots around the US
***The whole thing is ridiculous
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Posts: 2,514
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse] 2
#23870820 - 11/26/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude native americans are impoverished af and their school systems are completely run down. So many of them drink because of the destitution their communities are in. Asking 50 million in compensation for rights to cross their land doesn't strike me as being unprincipled.
Besides, the treaty explicitly stated that anyone who wanted to live there or build there outside of the Sioux community could only do so with their consent after holding counsel with them. So if they said no deal, if the U.S. government was going to ratify the original treaty, then that's that, redraw the pipe.
It's a half a mile outside of their reservation, it's just a slap in the face.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock] 1
#23870822 - 11/26/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is cyclical. I've seen some weird shit during my journeys. I wish it weren't this way, but we live out of balance and balance will always find it's way.
Cultural conditioning is already happening, and history repeats itself. Many are in denial of history in hopes that they can control reality. That denial will be the destruction. People worship money.
I try to be optimistic, but I've had too many visions come true (Maybe just cases of confirmation bias)
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Chakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23870829 - 11/26/16 11:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Maybe i'm just a naive optimist, but I believe that humanity is good. Even if these times travel more deeply into the dark, there will be a dawn, eventually.
Fascinating perspective though, I'm gonna give more thought to it and maybe I'll be able to discuss it more in depth soon, the general projection of events into the future.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23870837 - 11/26/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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When I consider that the Environmental Protection Agency conspired to destroy a river for money, then my optimism is shattered by realism.
I personally think humans will always be here, but I don't think technology as we currently know it is sustainable.
People work in slave conditions just so we can have the tech we do. There is a floating island of garbage the size of Texas in the pacific, and more in the other oceans.
IDK I've just seen some strange things, including Islam taking over. I was pretty out of touch with the real world when I saw these things, kind of living in my own incubated bubble away from stress. I didn't even know of SJW's and shit like that. I saw many things and I just don't understand how we can continue being wasteful without destroying ourselves.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23870891 - 11/27/16 12:09 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chakra Shock said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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MrBlueYoMind said: Yeah but doesn't this one violate a treaty of some sort?
it doesnt cross into the reservation
it doesn't cross into the reservation on the lands post abrogation of the original treaty. The only reason this pipeline is possible where it is is due to older infractions of the 1851 reservation, which was based on a treaty, not a negotiable, malleable distinction of boundaries.
would you like to go ahead and start paying your share of the slave reparations? post up the receipts when you do, we'd all love to see that, 40 acres and a mule is what was promised so that's what you need to provide
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In the first 38 years of the treaty, the Sioux had already begun to construct communities on that land, and now the pipeline crosses a mile outside of the 'current' reservation, over land which has culturally relevant and historic sites on it for the Sioux, like burial mounds. The pipeline goes directly over burial sites, which were perfectly acceptable where they were placed, seeing as that was the land which was originally decreed as being Sioux land.
and here we are 170 years later with an oil pipeline that isnt crossing this reservation. they had 2 years to air any issues they had but they refused to deal with the corps of engineers on anything even though they had just completed some deals that improved their water quality and reliability just 10 years ago with the very same corps of engineers
Quote:
So by saying it doesn't "cross into the reservation", you're sympathizing with the U.S. government's original violation of the ft. laramie treaty and abuse of the native people from countless infractions of a similar nature.
um no, by saying that I am stating a fact. it does not cross the reservation's boundaries
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This is one more example of how the U.S. government doesn't give a fuck about how they treat the indigenous people, but it is also an opportunity to begin to change that current of history.
you got your share of the slave reparations paid yet?
they reside on over 2 million acres, I dont have 2 million acres
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ballsalsa
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Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#23870893 - 11/27/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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robot asteroid mining? It might allow us to continue being wasteful if we start working on developing the tech now. we still gotta stop releasing fossil carbon though.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23870894 - 11/27/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chakra Shock said: Dude native americans are impoverished af and their school systems are completely run down. So many of them drink because of the destitution their communities are in. Asking 50 million in compensation for rights to cross their land doesn't strike me as being unprincipled.
so there's the real issue. they're poor and they want to be rich. they'll have a whopping $2700 for each of them
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Chakra Shock
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23870920 - 11/27/16 12:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Slavery reparations and honoring timeless treaties which are meant to stand to this day are a false equivalency, and it shows the weakness and fallibility of your argument that you have to grasp at straws like that.
It's actually such a poor analogy that one could call it a red herring, like much of what you have thrown out as premises in your argument against the protesters.
The only similarity is that both black people and native americans have been oppressed by the united states government. The difference here is that the United States government is continuously ignoring and abrogating the 1851 treaty, along with others. That is an ongoing infraction of rights, where as slavery in and of itself is quite illegal and abolished. Yes, the ramifications remain, but this pipeline is not a ramification of a past injustice, it is one and the same with the ongoing injustice which caused the initial disregard of the treaty. A nation that can not honor its treaties is inherently untrustworthy.
Not only that, but the pipeline passes through their burial mounds, which violates the national historic preservation act.
This pipeline is a moronically planned and executed endeavor that has caused untold amounts of strife.
edit: basically what you asked me is 'oh look at that injustice, so should the U.S. government also try to heal the damages it has done in the past due to all the other bullshit and oppression which it has caused?!' as if that is a ridiculous notion. Fucking yes, there should be as much effort as possible put into healing the wounds of the past of the U.S..
Edited by Chakra Shock (11/27/16 12:37 AM)
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23870922 - 11/27/16 12:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: When I consider that the Environmental Protection Agency conspired to destroy a river for money, then my optimism is shattered by realism.
Which river?
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Chakra Shock said: Dude native americans are impoverished af and their school systems are completely run down. So many of them drink because of the destitution their communities are in. Asking 50 million in compensation for rights to cross their land doesn't strike me as being unprincipled.
so there's the real issue. they're poor and they want to be rich. they'll have a whopping $2700 for each of them
Amish people can farm to maintain their lifestyle. We shoved most Native Americans in the shittiest barest lannd the country has to offer. These aren't your typical "they're poor cuz their lazy" people. They had values and they stuck with them and they got fucked over generation after generation to the point where alot of them are just as fucked up an corrupted as the rest of the country. The ones that don't make fortunes from casinos are full of alcoholics and people barely skating by, often by selling "heritage" items most Americans are too stupid to realize were made in a factory.
I don't know if I could say they deserve better but we've fucked them over enough. We've fucked the environment over enough too.
The pipeline won't encourage energy independence. It will encourage oil dependence.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23870946 - 11/27/16 12:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Chakra Shock said: Dude native americans are impoverished af and their school systems are completely run down. So many of them drink because of the destitution their communities are in. Asking 50 million in compensation for rights to cross their land doesn't strike me as being unprincipled.
so there's the real issue. they're poor and they want to be rich. they'll have a whopping $2700 for each of them
Amish people can farm to maintain their lifestyle. We shoved most Native Americans in the shittiest barest lannd the country has to offer. These aren't your typical "they're poor cuz their lazy" people. They had values and they stuck with them and they got fucked over generation after generation to the point where alot of them are just as fucked up an corrupted as the rest of the country. The ones that don't make fortunes from casinos are full of alcoholics and people barely skating by, often by selling "heritage" items most Americans are too stupid to realize were made in a factory.
I don't know if I could say they deserve better but we've fucked them over enough. We've fucked the environment over enough too.
I dont disagree that they've been fucked over over the last 400 years, the mohawk walk steel, they're some of the best paid workers in the construction industry, the bakken oil fields are just north of the reservation, there's no requirement for the Sioux to live on the rez, they can earn $40-$50/hr working the oil fields, they can earn $18/hr working the walmarts and fast food up there, the area is booming because of the oil fields
and no, it's not just because of laziness that they;re poor. maybe in some cases, they no longer live in a hunter/gatherer society, they're no longer nomadic, and that's a part of their problem, the biggest part is racism, pride and tradition. elders instill in them that it's better to be poor than to cooperate with whites even though they are more than willing to do so when it's beneficial to them
most of the land that that reservation sits on is arable land, they could also farm
Quote:
The pipeline won't encourage energy independence. It will encourage oil dependence.
oil wont be going anywhere for a long time.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23871002 - 11/27/16 01:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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They don't want to lose their way of life. That's why I compared them to the Amish. But it's true, they kind of have and there's not really anything left to salvage.
I do wonder why they don't farm ND land. That is one of the few examples I could think of, corn grows well up there yes?
Though all things considered I wouldn't want to integrate with people that completely hated my kind and committed mass genocide and continued to take from us and treat us like shit even when they said they'd stop. Several times. I've heard some pretty terrible stories about people that leave the reservations up to 50-60 years ago, before civil rights left a lasting impression. Maybe in another generation or two things will be different. Although I do hope it's not so much integration on their part and more provisions of trades on ours.
I say our and we but I am mixed blood, as alot of people are that are "the new natives" as weird as that sounds. I dunno. How long do you have to live in a place to be considered native to it?
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse] 7
#23871043 - 11/27/16 02:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Ahhh I see. This was the original I saw, I just did a quick search to post an article of it
Yeah, lots of propaganda out there
Quote:
If she did try to create such a weapon, then that sucks for her
Sure does
Quote:
Regardless, this pipeline is bullshit. However, I understand the desire/need to free ourselves from foreign oil. We are literally funding our own demise

If pipelines were a problem, you'd already be dead
A lot of people are dying 
And the earth certainly is if we keep this shit up.

You see that shit? That used to be some of the most productive fishing waters on the planet - off the coast of Texas and Louisiana - and what you are seeing? It's all fucking dead. Nearly every bit of those thousands of square miles of ocean that once teemed with life is dead because of dirt brained people like you who can't see a single year - let alone 40 past your mindless actions. Do you want to contribute to that further? Do you want to see if you kill the entire gulf of mexico? For a fucking oil barrel? - Granted a lot of this has been due to unconscious farming practices, but the mindset of idiot farmers and you have a lot in common. Maybe you should consider biting the fucking bullet - and supporting a vast restructuring of infrastructure and economy into renewables - which will no doubt have an immense cost... but that cost will be a tiny fraction of what we will pay if we continue raping the earth for oil.
Or maybe if its all cool with you - you can go move to Oklahoma.
You know Oklahoma used to experience about 2-5 magnitude 2-5 earthquakes a year, since fracking has picked up steam in Oklahoma - they have experienced over 2,300 earthquakes of intensities up to richter 6.0 - and I don't know if that means anything to you, but I'd like to see you say a single thing that sheds light on the massive raping of the US I for one am willing to dump walmart into the fucking ocean and pay 15$ a meal if it means the earth is going to survive. So maybe you mcdonald sucking corn pesticide boofing rednecks should jump on the boat before it fucking sinks.

Oil companies are sucking the oil out of the ground as fast as they possibly can because they know they are going to die - and die soon - they're fighting it with all their might but just look at the facts.

Can you read that for a second and comprehend, that every major oil company on the books just reported a fucking 35~ drop in revenue growth - A FUCKING THIRTY FIVE PERCENT DROP - do you know how significant that is for companies 1.2 trillion dollars in holdings? - that represents hundreds of billions of dollars - That's why they are panicking like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cash out as hard as they fucking can and brainwash as many americans into supporting them before the tide of renewable energy sweeps them away like little bitchcrackers.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead] 1
#23871109 - 11/27/16 04:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Twighead gets it
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Turtletotem]
#23871122 - 11/27/16 04:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Q: What's the difference between brainwashed Americans and brainwashed North Koreans?
A: They fed them slightly different stories.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead] 1
#23871288 - 11/27/16 08:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
twighead said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: Ahhh I see. This was the original I saw, I just did a quick search to post an article of it
Yeah, lots of propaganda out there
Quote:
If she did try to create such a weapon, then that sucks for her
Sure does
Quote:
Regardless, this pipeline is bullshit. However, I understand the desire/need to free ourselves from foreign oil. We are literally funding our own demise

If pipelines were a problem, you'd already be dead
A lot of people are dying 
And the earth certainly is if we keep this shit up.

You see that shit? That used to be some of the most productive fishing waters on the planet - off the coast of Texas and Louisiana - and what you are seeing? It's all fucking dead. Nearly every bit of those thousands of square miles of ocean that once teemed with life is dead because of dirt brained people like you who can't see a single year - let alone 40 past your mindless actions. Do you want to contribute to that further? Do you want to see if you kill the entire gulf of mexico? For a fucking oil barrel? - Granted a lot of this has been due to unconscious farming practices, but the mindset of idiot farmers and you have a lot in common. Maybe you should consider biting the fucking bullet - and supporting a vast restructuring of infrastructure and economy into renewables - which will no doubt have an immense cost... but that cost will be a tiny fraction of what we will pay if we continue raping the earth for oil.
Or maybe if its all cool with you - you can go move to Oklahoma.
You know Oklahoma used to experience about 2-5 magnitude 2-5 earthquakes a year, since fracking has picked up steam in Oklahoma - they have experienced over 2,300 earthquakes of intensities up to richter 6.0 - and I don't know if that means anything to you, but I'd like to see you say a single thing that sheds light on the massive raping of the US I for one am willing to dump walmart into the fucking ocean and pay 15$ a meal if it means the earth is going to survive. So maybe you mcdonald sucking corn pesticide boofing rednecks should jump on the boat before it fucking sinks.

Oil companies are sucking the oil out of the ground as fast as they possibly can because they know they are going to die - and die soon - they're fighting it with all their might but just look at the facts.

Can you read that for a second and comprehend, that every major oil company on the books just reported a fucking 35~ drop in revenue growth - A FUCKING THIRTY FIVE PERCENT DROP - do you know how significant that is for companies 1.2 trillion dollars in holdings? - that represents hundreds of billions of dollars - That's why they are panicking like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cash out as hard as they fucking can and brainwash as many americans into supporting them before the tide of renewable energy sweeps them away like little bitchcrackers.
"A FUCKING THIRTY FIVE PERCENT DROP"
That's YOY drop is because the oil price went from over $100 down to under $50, that's because production is UP and demand remains WEAK, that can change in little time.
"renewable energy sweeps them away"
You're dreaming, oil is here to stay for many decades. Those companies aren't going anywhere.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Turtletotem]
#23871289 - 11/27/16 08:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said: Twighead gets it 
Actually he doesn't, he's misrepresenting data and making a conclusion based on it.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Turtletotem] 1
#23871299 - 11/27/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The record shows that Energy Transfer Partners, the company building the pipeline, spent years working diligently with federal, state and local officials to route the pipeline safely and with the fewest possible disruptions. The contrast between the protesters’ claims and the facts on record is stunning.
Protesters claim that the pipeline was “fast-tracked,” denying tribal leaders the opportunity to participate in the process. In fact, project leaders participated in 559 meetings with community leaders, local officials and organizations to listen to concerns and fine-tune the route. The company asked for, and received, a tougher federal permitting process at sites along the Missouri River. This more difficult procedure included a mandated review of each water crossing’s potential effect on historical artifacts and locations.
559 meetings with the local communities, mandated reviews of historical artifacts
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Protesters claim that the Standing Rock Sioux pursued meetings with an unresponsive Army Corps of Engineers. Court records show that the roles in that story were in fact reversed. The corps alerted the tribe to the pipeline permit application in the fall of 2014 and repeatedly requested comments from and meetings with tribal leaders only to be rebuffed over and over. Tribal leaders ignored requests for comment and canceled meetings multiple times.
In September 2014 alone, the corps made five unsuccessful attempts to meet with Standing Rock Sioux leaders. The next month, a meeting was arranged, but “when the Corps timely arrived for the meeting, Tribal Chairman David Archambault told them that the conclave had started earlier than planned and had already ended,” according to a federal judge. At a planned meeting the next month, the tribe took the pipeline off the agenda and refused to discuss it. This stonewalling by tribal leaders continued for a year and a half.
Maybe they should have participated
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Typical of the misinformation spread during the protests is a comment made by Jesse Jackson, who recently joined the activists in North Dakota. He said the decision to reroute the pipeline so that it crossed close to the Standing Rock Sioux tribe’s water intake was “racism.”
And throw in a leftist race baiting comnunity organizer
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The pipeline route was adjusted based on concerns expressed by locals — including other tribal leaders — who met with company and Army Corps of Engineers officials. The court record reveals that the Standing Rock Sioux refused to meet with corps officials to discuss the route until after site work had begun. That work is now 77 percent completed at a cost of $3 billion.
In response to a lawsuit filed by the Standing Rock Sioux, the court documented “dozens of attempts” by the corps to consult with the tribe. It documented the legal and proper approval process the corps used to permit all of the contested construction sites the tribe claimed were improperly permitted. It even documented evidence that the corps had exceeded the minimum legal requirements during its earnest and lengthy efforts to receive the input of tribal leaders on the pipeline.

Quote:
Pipeline protesters may have a tight grip on media coverage of the pipeline, but they have a demonstrably loose grip on the facts. The truth — as documented not by the company but by the federal court system — is that pipeline approvals were not rushed, permits were not granted illegally, and tribal leaders were not excluded. These are proven facts upheld by two federal courts.
TWO federal courts, those would be Obama appointees,
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-ed-standing-rock-sioux-other-side-110916-20161109-story.html
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23871309 - 11/27/16 08:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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As someone who has invested in the natural resource sector (US and Canada) for decades, it always the same thing with these tribal leaders and it's ALWAYS about the money. They are playing you guys, it's called the art of the deal.
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart



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Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: qman]
#23871342 - 11/27/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Being played by "the art of the deal", that's hilarious 

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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead] 1
#23871381 - 11/27/16 08:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
twighead said:

You see that shit? That used to be some of the most productive fishing waters on the planet - off the coast of Texas and Louisiana - and what you are seeing? It's all fucking dead. Nearly every bit of those thousands of square miles of ocean that once teemed with life is dead because of dirt brained people like you who can't see a single year - let alone 40 past your mindless actions. Do you want to contribute to that further? Do you want to see if you kill the entire gulf of mexico?
what exactly do you see in that photo, you say the gulf is dead and this is the image you post as evidence. what, tell us exactly what that picture is if you can
Quote:
Or maybe if its all cool with you - you can go move to Oklahoma.
You know Oklahoma used to experience about 2-5 magnitude 2-5 earthquakes a year, since fracking has picked up steam in Oklahoma - they have experienced over 2,300 earthquakes of intensities up to richter 6.0 - and I don't know if that means anything to you, but I'd like to see you say a single thing that sheds light on the massive raping of the US I for one am willing to dump walmart into the fucking ocean and pay 15$ a meal if it means the earth is going to survive. So maybe you mcdonald sucking corn pesticide boofing rednecks should jump on the boat before it fucking sinks.

did you know that seismic activity can be caused by cattle and trucks? it can also be cause by, get this... shifting tectonic plate. the ozarks are on a fault like, there's a few running through oklahoma. I know it sounds crazy but those fault lines are where earthquakes are centered and as we see from place such as california, they come and go, sometimes in high frequency, low magnitude, some times in low frequencies and high magnitude, sometimes it;s even high frequencies and high magnitude so a seismic map that spans 40 years doesnt really tell us shit
Quote:
Can you read that for a second and comprehend, that every major oil company on the books just reported a fucking 35~ drop in revenue growth - A FUCKING THIRTY FIVE PERCENT DROP - do you know how significant that is for companies 1.2 trillion dollars in holdings? - that represents hundreds of billions of dollars - That's why they are panicking like chickens with their heads cut off trying to cash out as hard as they fucking can and brainwash as many americans into supporting them before the tide of renewable energy sweeps them away like little bitchcrackers.
I know what it means, it means that OPEC controls the pricing of the market which affects the profits of the US oil market. the oil companies arent "panicking like chickens with their heads cut off", they're doing what they've always done. they're pulling oil from where it's economically feasible. when oil prices are high they can extract from shale and other high cost sources, when the prices are low they suspend extraction there and move to extraction from the lower cost sources. when opec plays games with the oil market, it does of course cut into their profits.
now do me a favor, tell us all what the picture of the gulf is, give us a good description
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twighead
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23871452 - 11/27/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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That - is the direct reflection of this - the dissolved oxygen levels in the gulf of mexico. I presume it looks that way not only because of the silt - but because of the loss of all of the lifeforms that once helped purify the water. Keep in mind these are old pictures - the problem is worse now than it was then.



As far as the earthquakes... that's rather naive, you actually believe that the locations of the swarms - when they began coincide perfectly with humans beginning to inject millions of gallons of waste water at extremely high pressures into the crust?
The fucking USGS has the proofs posted to their site. 
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/overview.php
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead]
#23871471 - 11/27/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
twighead said: That - is the direct reflection of this - the dissolved oxygen levels in the gulf of mexico. I presume it looks that way not only because of the silt - but because of the loss of all of the lifeforms that once helped purify the water. Keep in mind these are old pictures - the problem is worse now than it was then.



the photo was silt
and now you're telling us that there's no life left in the gulf
that's about as fictitious as the bible
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twighead
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1] 2
#23871485 - 11/27/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The silt is filled with fertilizers which feed mass algae blooms which deprive the water of all of its oxygen content and kills every other living thing in those waters.
Yes it is silt - but the contents of that silt - and thus the contents of that image are in direct reflection of the deadzone that you witness. That image also contains the algae blooms which cause the hypoxia.
And I never said there's no life in the gulf as an entirety - but make no doubt that area directly reflected by the image contains basically no aquatic life. The same happened to the chesapeake bay as well - although efforts to reverse it have had some efficacy.
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MrBlueYoMind
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead]
#23871565 - 11/27/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Everybody knows that spilling crude oil into an ecosystem causes the life there to flourish, not cause catastrophic destruction and death.
-------------------- Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: twighead] 1
#23871571 - 11/27/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
twighead said: The silt is filled with fertilizers which feed mass algae blooms which deprive the water of all of its oxygen content and kills every other living thing in those waters.
so now your contention is that there's no longer any fish, oysters, shrimp, crabs and the like in the gulf because of fertilizers creating algae blooms killing everything off
Quote:
Yes it is silt - but the contents of that silt - and thus the contents of that image are in direct reflection of the deadzone that you witness. That image also contains the algae blooms which cause the hypoxia.
And I never said there's no life in the gulf as an entirety - but make no doubt that area directly reflected by the image contains basically no aquatic life. The same happened to the chesapeake bay as well - although efforts to reverse it have had some efficacy.
so the coastal waters are dead and all those shrimpers arent catching any shrimp because they're dead
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ballsalsa
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23871803 - 11/27/16 11:49 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
twighead said: The silt is filled with fertilizers which feed mass algae blooms which deprive the water of all of its oxygen content and kills every other living thing in those waters.
so now your contention is that there's no longer any fish, oysters, shrimp, crabs and the like in the gulf because of fertilizers creating algae blooms killing everything off
Quote:
Yes it is silt - but the contents of that silt - and thus the contents of that image are in direct reflection of the deadzone that you witness. That image also contains the algae blooms which cause the hypoxia.
And I never said there's no life in the gulf as an entirety - but make no doubt that area directly reflected by the image contains basically no aquatic life. The same happened to the chesapeake bay as well - although efforts to reverse it have had some efficacy.
so the coastal waters are dead and all those shrimpers arent catching any shrimp because they're dead
I'm not sure what your point is Pris. Are you contending that large scale algae blooms don't have a detrimental effect on useful biomass production in coastal waters?
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#23871806 - 11/27/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not saying that at all, what I am saying is that the gulf isnt dead, that the picture twighead had posted along with his misleading statements are disingenuous
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akira_akuma
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23871852 - 11/27/16 12:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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but just imagine....
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ballsalsa
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23871858 - 11/27/16 12:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hyperbole notwithstanding, his point was more or less accurate. I do the same thing when i talk about the Salton Sea being "dead". There is still stuff alive in there, just not enough to make it worth it to go and deal with the stink of the fish-bone beaches. In either event, a short to mid-term drop in coastal biomass is no joke either. all that biomass represents a corresponding amount of atmospheric carbon. In other words, less biomass=more CO2 and CH4 etc. in the atmosphere.
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moonrockmushy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23871919 - 11/27/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: I'm not saying that at all, what I am saying is that the gulf isnt dead, that the picture twighead had posted along with his misleading statements are disingenuous
Yeah and to be fair there are plenty of naturally occuring "dead zones" as well. "The jacuzzi of death" comes to mind.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: ballsalsa]
#23872256 - 11/27/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Hyperbole notwithstanding, his point was more or less accurate. I do the same thing when i talk about the Salton Sea being "dead". There is still stuff alive in there, just not enough to make it worth it to go and deal with the stink of the fish-bone beaches. In either event, a short to mid-term drop in coastal biomass is no joke either. all that biomass represents a corresponding amount of atmospheric carbon. In other words, less biomass=more CO2 and CH4 etc. in the atmosphere.
Nothing exists in a vaccume. You also have to take into account that ocean water is becoming very acidic, the global water temperature is rising in some places and dropping in others due to excessive ice melt, and overfishing, dredging, and the spread of invasive species that often hitchhike on our ships is all contributing to the 50% decline in sea life we've experienced in the last 40 years.
People are simple and need things broken down for them but I think the ecosystems problems are severely downplayed by simplifying.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23872264 - 11/27/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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All that shit in the gulf is probably human shit. Where do you think all the sewage goes? Not a lot of farming around the gulf.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy]
#23872274 - 11/27/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: All that shit in the gulf is probably human shit. Where do you think all the sewage goes? Not a lot of farming around the gulf.
Again that is over simplifying. Where do you think rivers like the mississippi empty out into?
The Chesapeake bay has the largest deadzone of any estuary in the world thanks to the northern rivers that are surrounded by farms that empty out into it.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23872312 - 11/27/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do you ever see farms? It is not like you want your fertilizer to empty out into a water way. Some do have water ways and ditches to deal with drainage. There is a growing effort in my area to reduce fertilizer leaching into water ways.
Most of it is human sewage. Thy treat it a little bit then dump it. Just like septic systems. Lot's of chemicals end up in the waste water.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23872388 - 11/27/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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No that's definitely a problem too. But it really wasn't till relatively recently that people started to try to stop agricultural run off. And alot of farms are still not doing it very efficiently.
Not all of that is US pollution either. The gulf acts as a buffer and a filter for the ocean. The jet stream and water currents carry pollution from other countries up there and because of the land mass alot of it gets stuck up near the shore.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23872391 - 11/27/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: Nothing exists in a vaccume.
I think my earring got sucked up by the vacuum, so there is that
and let's not forget all the stars and planets, they also exist in a vacuum
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23872401 - 11/27/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Shh. Don't pretend you know science pouty kitty
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs] 1
#23872434 - 11/27/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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nature abhors a vacuum
so do dogs
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23872478 - 11/27/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your mom sucks like a Hoover.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Morel Guy]
#23872529 - 11/27/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: Your mom sucks like a Hoover.
she's still pissed that you punched her in the eye and stole her social security check
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Morel Guy
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23872584 - 11/27/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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She got the rocks and that is all she wanted
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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ballsalsa
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23873623 - 11/27/16 10:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: Hyperbole notwithstanding, his point was more or less accurate. I do the same thing when i talk about the Salton Sea being "dead". There is still stuff alive in there, just not enough to make it worth it to go and deal with the stink of the fish-bone beaches. In either event, a short to mid-term drop in coastal biomass is no joke either. all that biomass represents a corresponding amount of atmospheric carbon. In other words, less biomass=more CO2 and CH4 etc. in the atmosphere.
Nothing exists in a vaccume. You also have to take into account that ocean water is becoming very acidic, the global water temperature is rising in some places and dropping in others due to excessive ice melt, and overfishing, dredging, and the spread of invasive species that often hitchhike on our ships is all contributing to the 50% decline in sea life we've experienced in the last 40 years.
People are simple and need things broken down for them but I think the ecosystems problems are severely downplayed by simplifying.
Indeed, additional atmospheric CO2 gets absorbed by the water in the ocean where it reacts to form carbonic acid. It isn't great for things that incorporate calcium carbonate in their shells or exoskeleton. Invasive species due to international shipping are a major problem, but i feel like the cat is out of the bag on that one already. not much to be done about it now. Hell, my dad caught a bonefish in San Diego once, and they aren't even supposed to be in this ocean. As a sport fisherman from the age of three, I feel that over fishing has played a huge roll in the decline in sea life. When i see pictures of my grandad standing on a pier lined with white seabass and piled 3-4 high, it makes perfect sense to me why there aren't many white seabass around anymore. That being said, the absolute greatest cause of fish population loss is nursery habitat destruction. IMO. Esturine habitats are the universal nurseries for uncountable marine species. Unfortunately, they are also prime real estate for human development. In California, the salmon runs used to be immense. With the advent of large dams, the rivers don't make it to the ocean anymore, and the number of salmon alive to try again next year declines at a continuous rate. Those fish(carcasses) represent untold tons of nutrients harvested from the ocean, and returned to the mountains, via the rivers. In the long term, there is no telling what effect losing that will have on the state's ecology.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Veterans are planning a 'deployment' to Standing Rock to protest the Dakota Access Pipeline [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23873659 - 11/27/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: No that's definitely a problem too. But it really wasn't till relatively recently that people started to try to stop agricultural run off. And alot of farms are still not doing it very efficiently.
Not all of that is US pollution either. The gulf acts as a buffer and a filter for the ocean. The jet stream and water currents carry pollution from other countries up there and because of the land mass alot of it gets stuck up near the shore.

http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/islands01/background/wind/media/gyre.html

along with pollution, the counter directional current gyre traps gulf species in and keeps atlantic species out to a large extent by keeping them from floating away(or in) while in their various planktonic forms.
[TO BE CLEAR, THE PIC DOES NOT DEPICT POLLUTION]
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