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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock] * 1
    #23560952 -

spock said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
spock said:
He wants his empire back.


I'd love to see your evidence that Putin wants "his empire back".  Remember, it was the US that orchestrated a coup in Ukraine to expand NATO and to try and take the Crimean naval base from Russia.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-06/putin-s-military-buildup-in-the-baltic-stokes-invasion-fears


So because Russian ships have been spotted near Poland, that means Putin wants his empire back?  Did you know Russian ships HAVE to pass by Poland to get out of the Baltic Sea?



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23561902 -

It is written that Trump and Putin will join forces together and will defeat the Eastern ruler of ISIS.

list=PL9HaTZbu80Pdq4xAv3fHsks07428Hwbyo

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock]
    #23563185 -

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea-idUSKCN10W0EM

Interesting article regarding Crimea.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock]
    #23563323 -

spock said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea-idUSKCN10W0EM

Interesting article regarding Crimea.

Peace
Spock


Once we remove hillary and her disciples from preventing the prophesy, then everything will goes as plan. Right now she and her disciples is trying to claim that she is the glowing goddess that will save the world from destruction. But really she is the one that is trying to prevent it by getting rid of Trump and attacking Russia so that there will never be any peace in the world, and her donors can profit a lot from making weapons of massive destruction..


You cannot believe everything that you here. It only has been two years. Russia just barely became an 100% organic producers and which that means that they are going to be a lot of tourists visiting just to detox their body and mind. And there are going to be some that are going to be moving there when they retire, and which it will add to their economy. And especially, since they are going to have only organic foods, that tourists will be flying down there just for the weekend for the great sex because of their healthy bodies from putting good things into it.
But while over here, people will be partying like hillary on the weekends.




Ruble now ‘excessively’ strong - Russian Finance Minister https://www.rt.com/business/252769-ruble-too-strong-siluanov/

Edited by Douglas Howard (08/21/16 03:57 PM)

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Douglas Howard]
    #23563352 -

RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock] * 1
    #23563356 -

Did
spock said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea-idUSKCN10W0EM

Interesting article regarding Crimea.


Did you know that this is the result of a Western embargo against Crimea?

It was already shown to you that the Ukrainian standard of living has gone to shit after the US supported coup, and of course the West has done everything possible to ensure Crimea goes down with it.  Hillary does not care one bit about human suffering, I'm afraid.  She cares about the Naval Base in Crimea.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock]
    #23563480 -

spock said:
Douglas Howard said:
Ruble now ‘excessively’ strong - Russian Finance Minister https://www.rt.com/business/252769-ruble-too-strong-siluanov/


RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine.


What's important is not who puts out the information, but how accurate the information is.  I've found RT to be a very reliable source of information.

In this example, the claim was that the ruble was excessively strong in April 2015.  This is easily verifiable on Google Finance:

https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1471819888607&chddm=637185&q=CURRENCY:RUBUSD&ntsp=0&ei=dyi6V6GzI8yGigLzqoj4Cw

On the other hand, your claims that "RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine" and "He (Putin) wants his empire back" meets the very definition of propaganda.  It is meaningless information meant to promote a particular political point of view.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock]
    #23563517 -

Spock, you actually seem like a reasonably smart guy.

Hillary recently said that the US needs to do a better job getting out its propaganda.  I'm curious if you are getting paid to post here or volunteering on Hillary's behalf?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23564348 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Spock, you actually seem like a reasonably smart guy.

Hillary recently said that the US needs to do a better job getting out its propaganda.  I'm curious if you are getting paid to post here or volunteering on Hillary's behalf?


No. I wish I could get paid like that. I laughed when I read that because I saw that clip (this thread?) of her saying that(about the war of information) and I was going to say to you that your take is what happens when we start to lose the information(misinformation?) war. I am pro Hillary though. I loved the idea of Sanders and wish it was him but I am okay with Clinton. There's things that I don't trust about her but the alternative scares me. And Putin is a master spy kleptocrat who shits on gay people and locks up people who don't agree with him. He looks a lot like a dictator to me. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/politics/2012/04/vladimir-putin-mikhail-khodorkovsky-russia I'm not gay or a journalist but I see no reason to love on Putin.
"your claims that "RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine" and "He (Putin) wants his empire back" meets the very definition of propaganda.  It is meaningless information meant to promote a particular political point of view."
"Hillary wants us to hate on Russia"

I'm a single dad and wish I could pick up a job killing time on the shroomery.

Peace
Spock

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock] * 1
    #23564446 -

spock said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Your claims that "RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine" and "He (Putin) wants his empire back" meets the very definition of propaganda.  It is meaningless information meant to promote a particular political point of view.

I'm curious if you are getting paid to post here or volunteering on Hillary's behalf?


I laughed when I read that because I saw that clip (this thread?) of her saying that(about the war of information) and I was going to say to you that your take is what happens when we start to lose the information(misinformation?) war.


To win an information war, you have to post real information.  Generalites, like "RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine", and "Putin wants his empire" won't get you anywhere.

spock said:
I am pro Hillary though. I loved the idea of Sanders and wish it was him but I am okay with Clinton. There's things that I don't trust about her but the alternative scares me.


I don't like Trump either.  So I'll vote for Jill Stein, and if Trump wins as result, Hillary only has herself to blame for putting Wall St above Main St.  That's not cool with me, and I'm surprised it's cool with you.

spock said:
And Putin is a master spy kleptocrat who locks up people who don't agree with him. He looks a lot like a dictator to me. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/politics/2012/04/vladimir-putin-mikhail-khodorkovsky-russia


Khodorkovsky, the richest man in Russia, was found guilty of embezzlement and tax evasion.  He stole billions from the Russian people.  That's EXACTLY what liberals are hoping Clinton will do with American criminal bankers, but Clinton is beholden to Wall St, who won't touch them because they give her most of her money.

Edit:  By the way Putin let Khodorkovsky out early because his mother was sick.  We don't have that kind of sympathy for criminals in the US.

spock said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
your claims that "RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine" and "He (Putin) wants his empire back" meets the very definition of propaganda.  It is meaningless information meant to promote a particular political point of view.


"Hillary wants us to hate on Russia"


Yes, but I provided the reasons why.  Something you'll need to do if you want people to agree with your points.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (08/21/16 10:40 PM)

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock]
    #23564461 -

There's nothing wrong about Putin. He is a very strong believer of Christianity. I like how the story about his life, what his mother had done was almost the same sort of things that the women of the Biblio has done, like what Ziporrah and the rest of them has done for their sons. Putin's mom had him consecrated (baptized) behind her husband back (and which that was forbidden at the time), and which she had fulfilled the prophesy of the Lady of Fatima had told the priest to do, and that is to consecrate Russia, but they did not. If she had not done that, Putin would of have had a corrupted heart like hillary's and her disciples, that they wants a war.





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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Douglas Howard]
    #23564995 -

I don't think Putin would recognize the prophesy of the lady of Fatima. In any case, I would argue that being a sincere Christian is a good start toward being flawless, but I know many devout who would cringe at a mortal being claimed as perfect. On the other hand, Putin has enriched himself and his inner circle on Russia's wealth. As an agent of the secret police for the athiest Soviet Union, one can only imagine what cruelty he committed.

That being said, I am 100% for normalization of relations with Russia,  my issue is with Putin and his cronies. If you think Clinton is corrupt, Putin has refused to hold legitimate elections for some time now.  Putin's opponents and pesky journalists are turning up murdered with poison,  as was the USSR style.

And the US might have tacitly supported the Ukrainian reaction, but Ukraine's last unified election wasn't up to standards and Russia literally invaded and began hostilities. Russia had the coup


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Crumist]
    #23565470 -

Rather,  our friends with GDPs less than Pennsylvania stood by us after 9/11 as we went into Afghanistan.  Hell,  some of them even showed up for that unlawful fiasco called iraq. And now we want to dump all them so as not to aggrevate Trump's buddy despot? Make America Great Again indeed. Scared of reform, scared of all other races and creeds,  and ready to present our trembling asshole to the guy with icbms to protect us from some 2edgy4life teens with bombs from the hardware store.


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Crumist]
    #23565506 -

Crumist said:
As an agent of the secret police for the athiest Soviet Union, one can only imagine what cruelty he committed.


I'm not one who believes in imagination and make believe, but you're free to imagine what you like.

Crumist said:
If you think Clinton is corrupt, Putin has refused to hold legitimate elections for some time now.


What does that mean exactly?  Has it gotten as bad as US elections where non-establishment candidates are prevented from winning?

Crumist said:
Ok  Putin's opponents and pesky journalists are turning up murdered with poison,  as was the USSR style.


A small number of journalists have been killed, but the cause of death is usually known and it is not the Russian Government.  Journalists are killed here in the US as well; does that mean Obama should be blamed?

I just visited Moscow this year and was surprised by the amount of anti-Putin journalism there.  The press is much freer than we give them credit for.

Crumist said:
And the US might have tacitly supported the Ukrainian reaction, but Ukraine's last unified election wasn't up to standards and Russia literally invaded and began hostilities. Russia had the coup


More imagination and make believe, or can you support this with evidence?

Crumist said:
Rather,  our friends with GDPs less than Pennsylvania stood by us after 9/11 as we went into Afghanistan.


Even Russia helped us in Afghanistan by sharing intelligence and allowing logistical and military supplies through Russian territory.

Crumist said:
Hell,  some of them even showed up for that unlawful fiasco called iraq. And now we want to dump all them so as not to aggrevate Trump's buddy despot?


More make believe?  Who says we want to dump all our allies?

Crumist said:
Make America Great Again indeed. Scared of reform, scared of all other races and creeds,  and ready to present our trembling asshole to the guy with icbms to protect us from some 2edgy4life teens with bombs from the hardware store.


Are you talking about Trump?  I hate Trump.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23566969 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
spock said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Your claims that "RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine" and "He (Putin) wants his empire back" meets the very definition of propaganda.  It is meaningless information meant to promote a particular political point of view.

I'm curious if you are getting paid to post here or volunteering on Hillary's behalf?


I laughed when I read that because I saw that clip (this thread?) of her saying that(about the war of information) and I was going to say to you that your take is what happens when we start to lose the information(misinformation?) war.


To win an information war, you have to post real information.  Generalites, like "RT is Putin's personal propaganda machine", and "Putin wants his empire" won't get you anywhere.



I am not trying to win an information war. I was referring to the same clip of Clinton talking about the US losing the information war. I was joking. And "Hillary wants us to hate Russia" is real information? You say you've provided the reasons why but I don't see it? "so that we oppose Trump, who might actually be making progress to restore relations with them". Trump is making progress to restore relations with Russia? He's doing that?
Even if you say Putin was coming to Crimea's rescue or that the US orchestrated the coup, that doesn't make Putin any less a dictator. His history goes back past 2014. People change their position on things sometimes so maybe Putin has become the peace loving guy we should have relations with. But I'm not buying it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-12-29/2015-the-year-of-the-putin-dictatorship
http://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/putin-really-is-a-dictator/
And here is an interesting article regarding Hillary/Russia http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/clinton-putin-226153
Peace
Spock

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23567419 -

hostileuniverse said:
Sticking up for friends is what has got us into every war democrats vote for, then oppose and blame on republicans


For constantly calling others partisan, you sure like talking about the what you feel the Democrats did wrong :grin:.  In this case I'd say your being misleading. Afghanistan was initially authorized near unanimously by a R house and split senate. Iraq had split democratic opposition but ultimately passed in part due Bush's WMDs. Obviously, g.w.bush was republican and the driving force for both. Which conflicts did you have in mind?


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: spock]
    #23567806 -

spock said:
"Hillary wants us to hate Russia" is real information? You say you've provided the reasons why but I don't see it?


Oops, I failed to post the link to the story that made me start this thread in the first place.  My apologies.

I started this thread in response to Clinton accusing Putin of hacking DNC emails in order to manipulate the election, when in fact the only thing that's been proven is that the DNC tried to manipulate the election in favor of Hillary.  I don't recall the article I read, but here's a similar story:

Clinton Campaign Suggests DNC Email Leak Is Vast Russian Conspiracy to Elect Trump

spock said:
"so that we oppose Trump, who might actually be making progress to restore relations with them". Trump is making progress to restore relations with Russia? He's doing that?


I believe so.  He already said we should let Crimea decide its own fate, which is to stay with Russia.  That would end the current conflict with Russia, which is taking us dangerously close to WWIII.

spock said:
Even if you say Putin was coming to Crimea's rescue or that the US orchestrated the coup, that doesn't make Putin any less a dictator. His history goes back past 2014. People change their position on things sometimes so maybe Putin has become the peace loving guy we should have relations with. But I'm not buying it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-12-29/2015-the-year-of-the-putin-dictatorship
http://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/putin-really-is-a-dictator/
And here is an interesting article regarding Hillary/Russia http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/clinton-putin-226153


So we should hate on Russia because Putin's adversaries call him a dictator?  The US currently supports dictatorships all over the world, and in some cases installs them.  I don't know if that's reason enough for hostility towards Russia.

As for the article about Hillary/Russia, I think it supports my point of view about Hillary quite well.  She's extremely anti-Russia.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23567899 -

I have nothing against Russia or it's people but I fear Putin has hijacked the recently democratic nation in order to make himself one of the wealthiest men in the world. Ukraine is only the most recent story of Russian aggression. Russia's military action in Syria against US friendly and soft civilian targets is reprehensible and greatly complicates, rather than assists the handling of ISIS. Warming Russian-Iranian relations also slams shut the opportunity for the United States to do the same.

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:.
Quote:
Crumist said:

As an agent of the secret police for the athiest Soviet Union, one can only imagine what cruelty he committed.


I'm not one who believes in imagination and make believe, but you're free to imagine what you like.

Another was talking about what a good Christian and prophesied child of the lady of Fatima. You do know he is ex-KGB/once KGB always KGB.

Crumist said:
If you think Clinton is corrupt, Putin has refused to hold legitimate elections for some time now.


What does that mean exactly?  Has it gotten as bad as US elections where non-establishment candidates are prevented from winning?

Yes, Russia prohibits observers, harasses voters, and has a turnout around 30%. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Russia#criticism_of%20recent_elections Protests following the past few elections have been violently crushed. Putin enriches himself and his circle with his power. American corruption is much more subtle and is no comparison. Trump is also hardly establishment and he had a decent chance at winning if he wasn't such a clown. Bernie on the other hand accomplished a lot, but wasn't chosen by voting democrats to be the nominee.

Crumist said:
Ok  Putin's opponents and pesky journalists are turning up murdered with poison,  as was the USSR style.


A small number of journalists have been killed, but the cause of death is usually known and it is not the Russian Government.  Journalists are killed here in the US as well; does that mean Obama should be blamed?

I just visited Moscow this year and was surprised by the amount of anti-Putin journalism there.  The press is much freer than we give them credit for.

Anecdotes are nice, but watchdog groups are better, 148 out of 197 according to Freedom House, US is 30 for comparison. Political murders -> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/world/europe/moscow-kremlin-silence-critics-poison.html?referer=https://duckduckgo.com/

Crumist said:
And the US might have tacitly supported the Ukrainian reaction, but Ukraine's last unified election wasn't up to standards and Russia literally invaded and began hostilities. Russia had the coup


More imagination and make believe, or can you support this with evidence?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/timeline-ukraine-political-crisis-201431143722854652.html
Crumist said:
Rather,  our friends with GDPs less than Pennsylvania stood by us after 9/11 as we went into Afghanistan.


Even Russia helped us in Afghanistan by sharing intelligence and allowing logistical and military supplies through Russian territory.

Sure, but my point was our NATO allies have always backed us when called upon. How could we abandon them at their moment of need?

Crumist said:
Hell,  some of them even showed up for that unlawful fiasco called iraq. And now we want to dump all them so as not to aggrevate Trump's buddy despot?


More make believe?  Who says we want to dump all our allies?

Trump

Crumist said:
Make America Great Again indeed. Scared of reform, scared of all other races and creeds,  and ready to present our trembling asshole to the guy with icbms to protect us from some 2edgy4life teens with bombs from the hardware store.


Are you talking about Trump?  I hate Trump.


Yay!


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Crumist]
    #23567990 -

Crumist said:
I have nothing against Russia or it's people but I fear Putin has hijacked the recently democratic nation in order to make himself one of the wealthiest men in the world.


He made his fortune the way all Russian oligarchs made their fortunes; when the Soviet Union turned capitalist, high ranking officials got huge shares of the newly privatized companies.  In order to increase his wealth, Russian companies would need to do well (I don't think his current sub $200,000/year salary is making him rich).

Crumist said:
Ukraine is only the most recent story of Russian aggression.


Please reread this post and then correct any mistakes or omissions so I better undersand "Russian Aggression".

Crumist said:
Russia's military action in Syria against US friendly and soft civilian targets is reprehensible and greatly complicates, rather than assists the handling of ISIS.


Do you mean their attacks against ISIS are hurting ISIS's chances of taking out Assad?

Crumist said:
Warming Russian-Iranian relations also slams shut the opportunity for the United States to do the same.


Perhaps.  But why do you think Iran (and now Turkey) are warming up to Russia rather than to the US?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Hillary wants us to hate on Russia [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23568112 -

Sorry long post.
    I don't understand the theme of this post at all. Are the people on here so young? The USSR/Russia has been our enemy since the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917. There were only two breaks in our animosity towards them.
    At the beginning of WWII, Hitler and Stalin made a nonaggression pact. Hitler violated it and attacked the USSR (big mistake). We then became allies with the Soviet Union, and they basically won the war in Europe, as 80% of the German divisions were on the Eastern Front. The Russians took more casualties than any other country. As the war ended, we were very worried about their expansionism (as opposed to ours) Some of our top military brass wanted to attack them immediately. We proved we had the bomb in Japan, and we weren't sure if they did or not. The centrists (I think Eisenhower and Truman, but I'm not sure) prevailed saying we were tired of war. The Soviets took control of Eastern Europe and other satellite countries. We rebuilt Western Europe and took control of the Pacific basin, because we won the war there and defeated Japan.
    This was followed by the Cold War, when for decades both sides built nuclear missiles as fast as they possibly could. The Soviets knew our missiles were more accurate then ours so they built more than we had to compensate. They also built tanks in immense numbers, presumably for an attack on Western Europe. This scared the shit out of us because we could only defend a tank attack on Europe by using nukes which would probably result in the end of the world. Western Europe became very pacifistic and Social Democrat economically. They were on our side, and were protected by us, but they knew if anything happened they would be the victims, and historically they were much more scarred by war then we were. When Reagan got elected (he may or may not deserve the credit)he decided to outspend the Soviets economically. The Soviets could keep up with us militarily, but since our economy was so much more vibrant, they couldn't provide any comfort to their people, and life was shit in a police state in USSR and Eastern Europe. In Eastern Europe, earlier, rebellions were staged and put down in Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, and later towards the end in Poland.
      This was when Mikhael Gorbachev, a visionary leader, somehow got control of the Soviet Union and convinced them their communist system could not be sustained. It was gradual process. Andropov was the Soviet leader and started to reform the system, but he died, and then they put in another hardliner, and then Gorbachev took control and with his allies talked the Soviet Union out of communism.
    This was the only other time we weren't enemies with the Russians. The Gorbachev revolution eliminated communism and freed the satellites and all the non Russian republics (many Muslim). Most of the world was ecstatic, and it did end up good for the Eastern European satellites, except Yugoslavia which had a horrific civil war.
    The U.S., in a fit of naivety thought everything was hunky dory. Russia was capitalist and free and they would be just like us. While the world was in love with Gorbachev, the Russians grew tired of not being a military superpower, and pushed him out, which was followed by Boris Yeltsin, who I could never form an opinion of. He seemed like a drunken good time Charlie, reminded me of Bill Clinton somewhat. This lead to Putin. The Russian people like power and they like a strong boss, even if he is a really bad man (like Stalin). Putin was a KGB officer and a trained thug. Since he took power Russia was on an expansion craze to take back what they had. We have felt threatened by them ever since, and they act the way they do because they feel threatened by us.
    At any rate the U.S. and Russia have been enemies for most of the last 100 years.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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